Anybody ever level frets?

[Stumplegriltskin]

I got a Dean ML. Yeah, I know, a Dean. LOLZA. I like the ML guitars. I set the action and the relief properly and the first fret on the D and G string are buzzing a little too much. I hit the frets down with a hammer with a plastic tip on the end and they are still buzzing. I then took a block with some 220 grit and went along the first few frets and then taped up either side of the fret and polished with 00, 000 then 0000 steel wool. I did a better job than Dean. No surprise.

It's a little better, but not good enough. I still can hear some of the buzz through the amp. I only did a few passes with the 220 grit as I have no idea what I'm doing. I know I should take it to a repair guy, but I'm anal about how things come out. I would prefer to learn how to do this myself. I haven't yet googled anything, I'm just wondering if how I went about it was the right way? Or perhaps I didn't sand enough with the block and 220 sandpaper?

Thanks

 

[JamesPeters]

There's a very good chance you did the job wrong, if you haven't researched how to do this kind of thing. For instance if you don't have straightedges and a properly straight sanding "bar" of sorts, it's very unlikely you did yourself any favors. And unless you crowned the fretwires again, it's not going to help you either. With any luck you didn't mess things up much though.

If you're going to do your own fret leveling/crowning, prepare to spend $100 minimum (to let's say $200) on tools/supplies. And although you can crown frets without specific crowning files (for instance), it takes practice to get it right.

 

[glip22]

It's tricky. Like James said you need the right tools. I recently had a guitar buzzing on the B and high E at the 13th fret. I had to file the section that was a little high over the next four frets to get it perfect. When you bang one down often the next one will now be too high. You only need to do the spot that is high. You need a good crowning tool and then you need to use different grades of paper to get the scratches out and bring them smooth and polished. Then go over the entire fret of the ones you filed with your recrowing file. The rest of my guitar was perfect. After I finished you would never know it was ever touched and the frets are all perfect. If you really want to have some fun try your hand at repairing some nice finish chips down to bare wood. Preparing the area, matching the color, sealer, grain fill. Lacquer and worst part is waiting.

 

[JamesPeters]

I forgot to mention: if you aren't completely comfortable saying "I'm good at doing setups", then don't start sanding/filing frets. We can all adjust a truss rod or raise/lower action, but without knowing how the various elements work together to make the setup right, it's unlikely you'll be able to level the frets properly. You should have tools to help measure action, relief, string height at the nut, and also know what some of the baseline values for a proper setup on that kind of guitar are.

Also if your setup wasn't right in some way, there's a chance your guitar didn't need a fret leveling (at least yet).

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Well I set the relief as I usually do, .010 and set the action at about 2.5mm at the 12th fret. Some of the frets looked high in the middle, so I pounded them down. This helped a little. The reason I did sand the frets was that when I put a short straightedge on the 1st,2nd,3rd frets, it was rocking, as the 2nd fret was high. I also didn't realize I had the action at the Floyd a big low on the bass side. So, it's a lot better and with new strings, it's usable now. I got lucky, heh.

I hear what you guys are saying. Do one thing, something else screws up. Fucking Dean, it would be nice if their imports were 1/2 decent like a lot of other companies. The last one I had was flawless. This one is somewhat of a lemon. The bridge pickup was way cockeyed. had to fill and redrill the holes. It's nice that you spend $800 on a guitar and have to fucking hack it.

I need to find a good tech around here. I put up and ad on Craigslist. I don't like dealing with music stores. I've watched a few videos since I posted and this shit is too involved for me. If I had $500 to spend on tools, I would learn how to do this. Hate relying on other people, but most of the guitars I buy don't have issues like this. This was an Ebay job and the fucker assured me the guitar was in good order.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

This is what you're supposed to use I guess.

Then you have to recrown the frets after. More tools for that

 

[glip22]

This is what you're supposed to use I guess.

Then you have to recrown the frets after. More tools for that

You just need some files, a decent crowning tool, and the 3m paper set works great for taking the scratches out and bringing them up to shiny. You don't need an expensive file to knock them down a little. I used a cheap file.
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... _File.html

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... grits.html

 

[Shask]

I am curious what Dean it is that you got.....


I have thought about learning this myself. I have watched a ton of Youtube videos. I have just never committed to the price of the tools. A local shop here does a decent job for $100, so I typically just take guitars there.

 

[PatF]

From what I've heard from reliable sources the 1st timer should probably by the expensive offset diamond file. Others sell a similar item.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... _File.html

There are pretty decent youtube vids on the subject. One with good cheap tool advise.

The luthier I go to would charge over 100. But it is Titties every time.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

So I thought it worked like this with fret buzz. Your action is set and your relief is set, yet you still have buzzing. You put a straight edge on 3 frets in the area of the buzzing and find the high one by rocking the straight edge back and forth. I thought the fix for that would be to level the frets by doing the whole fretboard with a block, or at least the section. Since the fretboard is radiused, you need a radiused block. But other videos say that it's better to do individual frets in sections.

 

[155]

you have to level all the frets with a radiused block with the neck perfectly straight then dress them...its not that easy ...and pounding with a hammer will probably do the opposite of what you want ..I dont recommend it , take it to someone

 

[TheLong]

The right tools can make a tricky job easy. I'd pick some up when possible. You'll have the problem solved for the rest of your life, and it's good to be your own tech, because no one will care about your guitar as much as you. Plus, it's not rocket surgery.

What blows me away is taking the time asking for advice on a forum over a quick google search for detailed instructions. Something doesn't seem quite right there, but hey, to each his own. Do your thing and rock on!

 

[jammin1]

Was looking into this myself last week and found this. Pretty good vid.

 

[glip22]

So I thought it worked like this with fret buzz. Your action is set and your relief is set, yet you still have buzzing. You put a straight edge on 3 frets in the area of the buzzing and find the high one by rocking the straight edge back and forth. I thought the fix for that would be to level the frets by doing the whole fretboard with a block, or at least the section. Since the fretboard is radiused, you need a radiused block. But other videos say that it's better to do individual frets in sections.

It really depends. In your case where you have isolated buzzing it's best to just work on that particular area. You don't need to remove material across the full fret if just the lower or higher area of the fret is too high. It just takes a keen eye knowing what your radius is and not taking too much off. Very small amounts at a time. If you go one hair too far your next fret in line will now be too high. It's a pain in the ass to work through the fine papers until they are polished. You will have file marks. A diamond file leaves less marks that need to be sanded out

 

[dfrattaroli]

This is what you're supposed to use I guess.

Then you have to recrown the frets after. More tools for that

There's a few things you need.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... tedge.html

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... elers.html

Or just take a look at the whole page...

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... /Leveling/


But you really need to do some research and understand what you're trying to accomplish when you do a fret level. Of course in this case, the internet search is your friend.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

The right tools can make a tricky job easy. I'd pick some up when possible. You'll have the problem solved for the rest of your life, and it's good to be your own tech, because no one will care about your guitar as much as you. Plus, it's not rocket surgery.

What blows me away is taking the time asking for advice on a forum over a quick google search for detailed instructions. Something doesn't seem quite right there, but hey, to each his own. Do your thing and rock on!

Well, I value the advice on this forum. I was watching videos around the time I put up the post. The purpose of my post was to either instill confidence in myself based on whether other players tackle this sort of thing, or wait for someone else to do it.

With me, it's not about paying someone to do it. I pay people to do lots of things. I do not do advanced electrical or plumbing, and I don't work on vehicles any more. I pay people to do those things. But, in my experience, the people that have done work on my guitars in the past, I was not impressed by the least and ended up having to redo what they did. So, I would rather learn how to do this myself and not have to rely / wait for others. That's all. If I have to spend $500 on tools, then there is the question of how much I'm going to use them, to justify buying them.

But it seems to me that spending $500 on the tools is added assurance that I would not have to rely on some "find a hack" to do something and then screw up my guitar. I have some expensive National Resonators, custom made for me by National. I brought one to "The music Emporium" where this guy (luthier) they have there is supposed to be the best in New England. I had them install a highlander pickup system and make me a new biscuit / Saddle. I got the guitar back and the 6th string was popping out of the saddle slot, the 1st string was 1mm wider then the spacing of the rest of the strings.

I paid a lot of money to get what I thought was the best service. Another time I had an electric serviced. It was a used electric Ibanez and the truss rod nut was stripped. They fixed that and in the process added a nice scratch to the back of the guitar. I have many other stories like this.

 

[TheLong]

Man, my post came off a bit snarky on the second half. Not trying to be that guy, gotta remember not to post before noon!

As a kid, I had a tech rip me off repeatedly. That'll learn ya eventually. Now I'd never use a tech and I've never been happier.

Anyway, here is a great article on fret leveling by Ron Kirn, a guy I got big respect for. He makes it all very clear.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technic ... 101-a.html

Good luck and rock on!

 

[anomaly]

Too bad about the fret problem, maybe the nut is cut too low?? that would be my first guess?? take it off and put a little shim underneath to raise it a bit, then screw it back down (assuming it's a locking nut). Hopefully that's the problem. it's got to be that or the frets are not set in right. Should be an easy fix anyways.

Don't knock Dean, those ML's are some good sounding guitars. Very fat sounding. The usa custom shop Dean's really are top notch guitars. I've got a '08 Dime slime and it's a great sounding guitar with the l-500xl in the bridge... it's a little awkward to get used to at first cause the guitar is so big, but it's the best sounding guitar I own. The problem is stylistical, as they are not every ones cup of tea

 

[geetar_geek79]

I have ventured in to this myself and so far I have lucked out but that was after researching and reading a lot of articles. I'll echo having the right tools as well.

The things I've read which stuck with me because I think it helped a great deal is
1.) making sure the neck itself is straight before leveling using this StewMac notched leveler.
2.) marking the frets with a black marker as an indicator whether I'm sanding on it or not.
3.) going easy.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Man, my post came off a bit snarky on the second half. Not trying to be that guy, gotta remember not to post before noon!

As a kid, I had a tech rip me off repeatedly. That'll learn ya eventually. Now I'd never use a tech and I've never been happier.

Anyway, here is a great article on fret leveling by Ron Kirn, a guy I got big respect for. He makes it all very clear.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technic ... 101-a.html

Good luck and rock on!

Heh, no worry Hoss, the internet is that way sometimes. Takes your words and twists them to make you look like a prick. Happens to me every other post