Anybody have any DEEP knowledge of this new paypal law???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Moshaholic
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mhenson42":yl3mturt said:
jcj":yl3mturt said:
mhenson42":yl3mturt said:
Just because you get a 1099 for a cash flow, does not mean it is a taxable event. It's just reporting a transaction to the IRS. If you got audited, you would have to have receipts to prove it wasn't a taxable event. For example, you sold an amp for $1000, you previously bought it for $1200. PP 1099s you for the $1000. You don't owe tax since there was no income. Just keep contemporaneous documentation of your cost basis. Now if the situation was reversed, and you bought it for $1000 an sold it for $1200. You have to claim the $200 as misc. income on your tax return. That has always been the case....it's just been difficult to enforce. By requiring 1099s through paypal, it provides the IRS a mechanism to identify and enforce tax compliance.

Ding, ding, ding :D

Conversely, if you lost money, you're allowed to reflect that, as well.

Nothing scary, here.

A pain in the ass? Maybe, but definitely not anything new.

Unfortunately, "hobby" losses are only deductible up to the amount of hobby income and are subject to the 2% of AGI threshold and can't be used to offset other types gains. If you are in the business of buying/selling gear, then yes, losses would be deductible. The IRS assumes you're trying to make a taxable profit (in the business) if you actually made money in at least three tax years of the past five tax years.


+1

Listen to this man, this is all you need to read and no need to panic. Main reason they put this in is for people who make their living off eBay. IRS had no way to track these accurately, so it would go unreported.
 
mhenson42":1dmu66xs said:
jcj":1dmu66xs said:
mhenson42":1dmu66xs said:
Just because you get a 1099 for a cash flow, does not mean it is a taxable event. It's just reporting a transaction to the IRS. If you got audited, you would have to have receipts to prove it wasn't a taxable event. For example, you sold an amp for $1000, you previously bought it for $1200. PP 1099s you for the $1000. You don't owe tax since there was no income. Just keep contemporaneous documentation of your cost basis. Now if the situation was reversed, and you bought it for $1000 an sold it for $1200. You have to claim the $200 as misc. income on your tax return. That has always been the case....it's just been difficult to enforce. By requiring 1099s through paypal, it provides the IRS a mechanism to identify and enforce tax compliance.

Ding, ding, ding :D

Conversely, if you lost money, you're allowed to reflect that, as well.

Nothing scary, here.

A pain in the ass? Maybe, but definitely not anything new.

Unfortunately, "hobby" losses are only deductible up to the amount of hobby income and are subject to the 2% of AGI threshold and can't be used to offset other types gains. If you are in the business of buying/selling gear, then yes, losses would be deductible. The IRS assumes you're trying to make a taxable profit (in the business) if you actually made money in at least three tax years of the past five tax years.

Right, meant you could toss it on a Schedule C, if necessary :D

Either way, not a biggie. :thumbsup:
 
mhenson42":cr04v049 said:
Moshaholic":cr04v049 said:
mhenson42":cr04v049 said:
Just keep contemporaneous documentation of your cost basis.

GEEZ LOUISE!!!

In freaking ENGLISH man, I'm just a humble software systems architect, not an MBA...

:D


....in other words, keep your receipts. :lol: :LOL:

Request receipts from people you buy stuff from.....Or keep a log that details all of the important information about a buy/sell transaction as of the date of the transcation.

If you can't get a receipt, just do one of the following to evidence your "tax cost basis" as the bean counters call it:

1.) Print off a copy of the PayPal payment confirmation evidencing who you paid the money to and how much. If shipping costs were included in your payment/transfer amount, just make a note on the printout of how much the shipping was of the total. Your "cost basis" is the total payment/transfer amount LESS the shipping cost;

2.) Print off a copy of emails evidencing what the sale price was. Same comments re: shipping costs in (1.) above apply here;

3.) Print off a copy of the eBay listing or RT (or other forum) listing showing the sale price of the item.

It's THAT easy.

As for any taxable gain, it can be calculated as follows:

Sale price of the item you sold
Less: Cost of shipping included in the sale price above
= Net cash received from sale

Purchase price of item you sold (as evidenced from the documentation outlined in points (1) to (3) above)
Less: Cost of shipping that was included in the purchase price
= Net cost basis of your item

Your gain is then:

Net cash received from sale (calculated above)
Less: Net cost basis of your item (calculated above)
= Gain (or loss)

If you have a gain, it's taxable. If you have a loss, it can be applied against other gains you might be reporting on your tax return from similar transactions. In this way, you could theoretically reduce your taxable gain(s) to zero. For example.....

Let's pretend you sell a Bogner XTC for $1,000, and you had paid $1,200 for it. You have a loss on disposition of $200.
In the same year, you sell a Gorilla for $1,300 that you had paid $1,000 for. You have a gain of $300 on disposition.

You can net the $200 loss against the $300 gain, resulting in a net taxable gain of $100 on your tax return. Make sense?

Now, we could get into the intracacies of the application of Depreciation/Capital Cost Allowance on your cost bases, but that is a discussion for a different thread (and likely a different audience! :lol: :LOL: )

Granted, the above discussion is based on Canadian Tax Law, but I believe U.S. tax laws are identical or otherwise very consistent in this area.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
^ that's correct, except, if you paid shipping costs to buy something, that is part of your cost basis. All costs to get an item to you are part of your basis. Except sales taxes if you already deducted the sales taxes as a part of your personal tax return (I do here in Texas since there is no income taxes). On the selling side, same thing. Shipping costs you pay reduce your sales proceeds.
 
Don't worry IRS isn't focusing their attention too much on this. It's just a quick filter for their scanners when they match up your return electronically to what they have on file in their system.

I do International Tax Consulting now and you should see all the new stuff they are putting in place for people who do business abroad.
 
What this all means is you have to keep receipts of what you paid, what you sold it for, and any costs to sell it PER SALE.

mhenson42 and rokker are correct in their posts.

Paypal required me to cough up my SSN, and my employer ID # (when I incorporated last December) so that they could comply with the IRS laws. At the end of the year, they'll supply me with a 1099 for payments received. They also have a year end report which states what fees you paid (monthly, too if you check), what payments you made to buy stuff, and other things like refunds.

You can print it all out from their reports menu, it's been there for years.

Long story short, people were trying to run businesses (without calling them businesses) and not pay taxes on their income. If you were slick, you could do all of your buying/selling within PayPal, and avoid the IRS taxing you.

They figured that out, and closed that loophole.

It never affected me because I have to do all that Schedule C profit/loss/expense crap, and have had to do it for years.

Welcome to business in the USA...Uncle Sam (even before Obama) wants their cut.
 
So, since guys like me do nothing but buy stuff - some of it kind of spendy - is there a way I can reduce my tax bill by declaring a depreciation over time or something like that? Or do I have be incorporate myself as something like "Matt's Useless and Fruitless Tone Quest, Inc.", an advisory service that assists musicians in blowing all their hard-earned $ on modified Marshalls and such? I think it costs about $200 or so to LLC yourself as a business entity; I wonder if there is any merit in this . . .

If I could claim reduced value on all the stuff I've bought I could put a huge dent in at least one tax year's bill to the IRS from my day job, because I have DEFINITELY lost money. Or is the stuff you own in some kind of tax-limbo, where you can't declare a loss in value until you sell anything (for less than you paid for it, obviously)?

Now my brain hurts, time to crank up the Marshalls (and a certain new-to-me PURPLEXI, due in by FedEx today!).

Matt
 
If you just buy stuff, you are fine, no 1099 crap unless you're a business, buy more than $20k per year or go over the 200 transactions per year limit.

If you sell stuff, that's when you need to keep receipts for what you paid originally, what you sold it for, and the costs incurred for selling to determine if you lost or made money. Basically it's like a profit & loss statement detailing the expenses going in, and out.
 
twenty4_7spy":37xhgw2t said:
So, since guys like me do nothing but buy stuff - some of it kind of spendy - is there a way I can reduce my tax bill by declaring a depreciation over time or something like that? Or do I have be incorporate myself as something like "Matt's Useless and Fruitless Tone Quest, Inc.", an advisory service that assists musicians in blowing all their hard-earned $ on modified Marshalls and such? I think it costs about $200 or so to LLC yourself as a business entity; I wonder if there is any merit in this . . .

If I could claim reduced value on all the stuff I've bought I could put a huge dent in at least one tax year's bill to the IRS from my day job, because I have DEFINITELY lost money. Or is the stuff you own in some kind of tax-limbo, where you can't declare a loss in value until you sell anything (for less than you paid for it, obviously)?

Now my brain hurts, time to crank up the Marshalls (and a certain new-to-me PURPLEXI, due in by FedEx today!).

Matt

If you have a good case to prove that it is more than just a hobby (i.e. producer, musician who gigs, etc.) then you can take the writeoffs (depreciating, etc. )

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,, ... 90,00.html

But if it's just for gearwhoredom good luck with that :D

All in a matter of if you want to play the game of chance with getting audited :lol: :LOL:
 
Scumback Speakers":1766nsob said:
cyndicate":1766nsob said:
If you have a good case to prove that it is more than just a hobby (i.e. producer, musician who gigs, etc.) then you can take the writeoffs (depreciating, etc. )

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,, ... 90,00.html

But if it's just for gearwhoredom good luck with that :D

Wait, that's a job or professional description to me...gearwhoredom. Hmm, I like it. :lol: :LOL:

LOL if that was a serious profession all of us on here would be f'n pros! :rock:
 
Scumback Speakers":182xxd6w said:
cyndicate":182xxd6w said:
If you have a good case to prove that it is more than just a hobby (i.e. producer, musician who gigs, etc.) then you can take the writeoffs (depreciating, etc. )

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,, ... 90,00.html

But if it's just for gearwhoredom good luck with that :D

Wait, that's a job or professional description to me...gearwhoredom. Hmm, I like it. :lol: :LOL:

Jim, btw hows that Metro treating you? Still have it ? :D
 
Is it me, or is EVERYTHING getting more and more complicated?
 
cyndicate":2mn07kk1 said:
Jim, btw hows that Metro treating you? Still have it ? :D
It's out there in the demo room for clients who want to hear a Marshall roar, sir!
 
Hobby loss deductions are a huge irs red flag. Trust me you dont want an irs field audit. They dont quit until they hit the bone. It is the worst. They will win and you will not
 
Red_Label":dx26zea2 said:
Tonelover":dx26zea2 said:
So instead of posting on chat rooms about the issue (although the anti Obama rants are always amusing), the thing to do is call Paypal and ask if the email is legit or not.

I've found VERY little amusing since Obama assumed office. Well... expect maybe his "corpseman" speech! :lol: :LOL:

Did he really say that? You gotta YouTube link?
 
rokker":3g3ak9yh said:
Hobby loss deductions are a huge irs red flag. Trust me you dont want an irs field audit. They dont quit until they hit the bone. It is the worst. They will win and you will not

Field audits do suck unless you have documentation. The last field audit I had on my business was a nightmare in paying my accountant to teach the IRS bozo how to do his job.

After several months and $3000 in accountant fees, we just went to appeals because Jack Perez from the Long Beach, CA IRS office was a complete idiot. He shows up with a defective computer, didn't get it tested to make sure it worked, although he'd received it just the day before coming to my field audit. Then he had my accountant photocopy all of my previous four years of tax returns because he forgot those, too. I wound up getting the entire audit done in 45 minutes in the appeals division. They found that I owed no more money. But this bozo from Long Beach had generated over 2500 pages of printouts for my case.

That was roughly 8 times the amount of receipts, invoices, and my tax return for my business.

Needless to say, I filed a complaint on both him and his idiot manager.

Long story short...red flags are a pain in the ass. But even worse is the room temperature IQ of the agents working at the IRS. I've been through five audits, won them all, but it cost me to prove I was right.

Aholes work at the IRS, who aspire to being normal people...and it never happens, trust me. I've met with those who used to be IRS agents running companies to fight the IRS...they just think they're good. They've all been bozos, too. Of course this is only based on the experiences with about 8 of them I've dealt with, plus about 15 IRS agents.

I could tell you tales that would make you load your gun, trust me.
 
president_obama_nazi_mustache.jpg
 
PayPal and Ebay's douche-baggery forced me to use Craigslist exclusively a while back when they started making people with lower ratings wait for their money until the buyer receives the item and leaves feedback..
 
cyndicate":1532jodg said:
Scumback Speakers":1532jodg said:
cyndicate":1532jodg said:
If you have a good case to prove that it is more than just a hobby (i.e. producer, musician who gigs, etc.) then you can take the writeoffs (depreciating, etc. )

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,, ... 90,00.html

But if it's just for gearwhoredom good luck with that :D

Wait, that's a job or professional description to me...gearwhoredom. Hmm, I like it. :lol: :LOL:

LOL if that was a serious profession all of us on here would be f'n pros! :rock:

GUILTY as charged: six 100W heads and four 4x12 cabinets in the last 4 months. And then there's effects, both rack and pedal; stuff to hook up a bunch of amps and not have them hum, etc etc etc - it's endless. And beautiful
 

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