Anybody shred with a semi-clean sound???

  • Thread starter Thread starter the aXeman
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Earlier I waited until nobody was home and fired up the Marshall and turned it up a "little" louder than I normally would jam with... turned the cab the other way and played without my OD... I was already practicing all day unplugged so when I got home I was ready to go... I just started REALLY going for it with the picking hand and... what do you know. We have saturation on command... sortof. I can pick softly and get mellower sounds, than dig in and get all hell... It's going to take a LOT of practice to get used to it, but I threw my Eddie phase on and ran through "Eruption" just to f$%k around... didn't suck, but it wasn't to normal standards for me. I'll get there with a lot of work... Going to take time, but I'd like to get it to the point where I don't need any extra distortion/grit than what's coming from the amp... It's all in the hands. Just like everybody tells me, go figure. ha Bob, I think you're right with the attitude factor being the saturation... Look at John Sykes (more "recent" stuff since he went back to his 800's....)

Thanks guys, always cool getting people's .02 on this stuff!! :)
 
You're well on your way aXeman... keep it up dude, you will excel.
 
Turning the gain down is a humbling experience. Lasts for about 30 seconds for me. That's why I quit watching Andy Woods and Pete Thorn video's..... :D
 
the aXeman":rgt7nmy5 said:
Badronald":rgt7nmy5 said:
shgshg":rgt7nmy5 said:
I do all my practice unamplified. If I can't get pick harmonics sounding bright and squeaky when I'm just playing acoustically, plugging in to a Dual Recto ain't gonna help it.
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I practice unamplified most of the time as well.

I don't need a lot of gain to rip, however I like it!
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Same here on practicing unplugged. My Explorer rings really well unplugged... I should mention that this was my first tube amp also and the amount of sound as well as the consistency of it on my end has amplified (no pun intended) enormously just jamming unplugged from cleaning up the slop that was covered up before with all the effects before... I can run through a lot of solos and everything unplugged but I gotta have that extra kick in the pants when I plug in to really execute them properly and comfortably... But I still feel like I'm cheating after seeing somebody take my guitar, plug it through my amp, and turn the gain at 1 'o clock and rip it like crazy.... Gahh!!!!!!


So here's another question. For those that don't use any front-end distortion for the extra "POW", or for those that are trying to play without it... Why do it that way, and are there any advantages to it that you could think of?
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i never liked a lot of gain...i always have liked a dry distorted sound, and one that's kind of hard to play.
i hate uncontrollable distortion/overdrive....that kind that you turn the volume on the guitar and its just screaming feedback and way uncontrollable. and while learning how to control that amount of distortion is an art in and of itself, it's easy to master.....and much more challenging and rewarding to have your technique shine through via tone and touch. the advantage is i guess i feel like the tone is cleaner and less mudded up with distortion.
 
i've always thought that slash played with WAY less gain/distortion than people normally think and wayy more volume than most are comfy with

that's the beauty of the greats....they learn to control that volume, tame the amp and what comes out of the hands/strings/wood/amp/cab...make it dance like a wizard controlling a fire, or one of those indian guys mesmerizing a cobra.

it's a fine line to do to at extreme volumes that achieves those tones, and, quite honestly, im just too shy to do it for too long, and i get all self conscious and crash and burn after ten notes or so.

i guess my approach is, more volume, less distortion, and vice versa.
 
yeti":1gl402lh said:
i've always thought that slash played with WAY less gain/distortion than people normally think and wayy more volume than most are comfy with

that's the beauty of the greats....they learn to control that volume, tame the amp and what comes out of the hands/strings/wood/amp/cab...make it dance like a wizard controlling a fire, or one of those indian guys mesmerizing a cobra.

it's a fine line to do to at extreme volumes that achieves those tones, and, quite honestly, im just too shy to do it for too long, and i get all self conscious and crash and burn after ten notes or so.

i guess my approach is, more volume, less distortion, and vice versa.
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I agree... I use only enough gain to make my rhythm playing sound like how I want it.. and just turn up for solos, no boosting or effects. Many do the opposite, they set the gain for their solo playing and every rhythm sounds like metallica.. lol
 
I use pretty low gain and jam over backing tracks for practice for guitar lessons. The expectation is to do a few different flavors on top of the same track. I often set my old cassette boom box to record it. Guitar has a little verb, a slight delay, lower gain.

Just listening to what you play is interesting to me. Things I do often, or ruts I get into are exposed. Sloppy transitions are there. Trying to play fast to the point it is not neatly done shows up. But new tricks I am working on get in there too.

Lots of ways to get better out there. Less gain and a little tape of your versions of a few different solos over a backing track is a good tool. Practice with a purpose is the main thing for me. I can noodle for an hour and not do myself any good aside of relaxing.
 
Plexi on 10 and variac'ed is enough gain to pull off those licks. Ed may not have played with traditional gain but regardless of whatever you read, I am pretty sure he was using a reasonably hot PAF. Again, I give the nod to playing in this style with a pup that is hot enough to accomodate. I can play a stock 800 with a super distortion and pull of quite a bit because i am obsessed with trying to use less gain. Also don't forget that even if Ed or anyone has a stock Marshall, even a touch of EQ can help with the gain/saturation/make it easier to play. you can hear Malmsteen struggle with a few of his tokken riffs in that clip though. He really needs his DOD to work all the alternate picking. Still fantastic without it though by the rest of our standards.
 
yeti":3bsjrxx1 said:
i've always thought that slash played with WAY less gain/distortion than people normally think and wayy more volume than most are comfy with

that's the beauty of the greats....they learn to control that volume, tame the amp and what comes out of the hands/strings/wood/amp/cab...make it dance like a wizard controlling a fire, or one of those indian guys mesmerizing a cobra.

it's a fine line to do to at extreme volumes that achieves those tones, and, quite honestly, im just too shy to do it for too long, and i get all self conscious and crash and burn after ten notes or so.

i guess my approach is, more volume, less distortion, and vice versa.
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Agreed, AFD is not as much gain as you'd think. Also as you mentioned, when you open an amp up with volume, sometimes you lose tightness BUT that softening or slight compression and sag is what allows the lead stuff to feel easier on the hands. Preamp gain is great for the chugga chuggas though. Can't beat it. Also listening to early scorps the other day. Jabs is working every bit of usable gain out of his earlier JMP's with a hot pup and his hands. The later stuff was channel switching and you can hear it more. More fizzies. All depends what you want to do or what you are going for. I hate fizzies. It is an obsession of mine. I want crunch and crunch alone.
 
Also another thing to consider.. ever set your amp to crunch and record yourself? Doesn't it sound like there is more gain there when you listen back compared to the amount of gain you knew was there? Think of that as well. These guys are just really working the strings and have hand strength and dynamic picking hands. Less forgiving then using Steve Vai gain where you can pick one note and make it last for days up and down the neck.
 
Kapo_Polenton":1niqes3g said:
Also another thing to consider.. ever set your amp to crunch and record yourself? Doesn't it sound like there is more gain there when you listen back compared to the amount of gain you knew was there?
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I've always wondered why this is.
It compresses, which makes sense..... but does compression create more distortion?
Or is it frequency distortion? Kind of like how tweaking an EQ adds/lessens gain?
I dont know the technical stuff. :no:
 
Kapo_Polenton":2mbdu9vp said:
Also another thing to consider.. ever set your amp to crunch and record yourself? Doesn't it sound like there is more gain there when you listen back compared to the amount of gain you knew was there? Think of that as well. These guys are just really working the strings and have hand strength and dynamic picking hands. Less forgiving then using Steve Vai gain where you can pick one note and make it last for days up and down the neck.
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The greats were also working with tons of volume. Much more than most of have the opportunity to use. You can also tell when those guys were recording at those volumes in the room with the amp. Before the isolation days. Rigs act quite a bit differently when your standing right in front of them with intense volume.
 
That would explain guys like PAge using those smaller supros in a bathroom so they could crank the shit out of it without bringing a place down... I think the tendency for most of us is to record at lower volume with our clips. As someone mentioned here already, it makes it a very preamp based tone which we complain about because we don't have 8 4 x 12 cabs in an isolated room pumping amps with the master volume on 8 that generate the tone we hear on albums.
 
GRANKOR":bmkt9a2r said:
Eddie Van Halen used a pretty clean sound on the old records
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Wow -I'm not the OP but this is a VERY good point and a good example.

Another example , although I don't know if shredding is the word but Steve Morse with Dixie Dregs , I saw him at U of Miami and he never really used much gain and his Country Shredding stuff was loud cranked Clean.
 
halebox":3s6i5nnb said:
Slayer tried it for this show and the fans went wild

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wow, Tom has a really great voice when he sings, and the solos didnt sound much like a turkey fight that time...i think they should do that more often! :rock:

ps...RIP Jeff!
 
Neil Geraldo does not get a lot of mention around here, but the guy is a great player and plays with very little gain.
 
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