Anybody try a Randall Satan and or a 667?

[Intimidator333]

Anyone have actual experience with a Randall Satan and or a 667? I made a post a few days ago asking about VHT and Engl models and possibly making an Engl/VHT rack setup. I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has. With that info, Reza recommended the Randall Satan. Didn't really like any clips of it at first but the more I'm researching it the more I'm interested. Anybody try one? How do the Fortin Randalls compare to say a PBUL, Engl Savage which I used to own, or a SE670? How are they in a mix? Do they crush or do they get drowned out? Low end/low mids? How tight and clear is the gain compared to a higher end Engl? How does the Satan compare to the 667? Don't need 6 channels but I'd prefer a clean/dirty clean/high gain options rather than just the clean/distortion on the Satan. However heavy gain tone in priority #1 and can get by with just clean and dirty. Like I said in my last post, I used to own an Engl Savage 120. Most perfect gain, everything I was looking for, just was way too thin and lacked the chunk I was looking for.

 

[RedB4Black]

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

 

[maddnotez]

Just get a 100CL and be done with it.

 

[Intimidator333]

I don't think the Ultra Lead lacks gain at all. It's a dry gain and I even like that about it. When I say "edge" I'm talking about that "PanterA" type edge that the Engls have. That really fine refined tight gain with that fast aggressiveness to it.

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

 

[Intimidator333]

Thanks. Yeah I see a few for sale for pretty cheap. I don't need 6 channels but would like at least 3. Ever compare it to a Satan? Does the Satan crush it as far as heavy tones?

I had a 667 , very versatile if you mix el-34 and 6l6 in it.
But has a sameness to every channel.
You won't need all of them.
A metric ton of features, and overall I would say it's a fine amp.
Sold mine for $900

 

[SandyRavage]

Short answer don't waste your money on the Satan. That amp literally had the worse build quality of any amp I've ever purchased and even after an expensive re tube could never hang in a mix and just sounded terrible.

I also saw meshuggah play with them but through the live nation monitors with a backing track and perfect mix I'm pretty sure I could get anything to sound good. I would also bet that the amps they are using had some heavy modifications and probably weren't stock.

Just saying the quality of the build and sound was appalling for the price they are asking stick with some better brands.

Comparing them to a pitbull is like putting comparing a 1992 Honda Civic with some hard miles to a Porsche...and asking you to justify paying a similar price. Don't do it.

 

[maddnotez]

Short answer don't waste your money on the Satan. That amp literally had the worse build quality of any amp I've ever purchased and even after an expensive re tube could never hang in a mix and just sounded terrible.

I also saw meshuggah play with them but through the live nation monitors with a backing track and perfect mix I'm pretty sure I could get anything to sound good. I would also bet that the amps they are using had some heavy modifications and probably weren't stock.

Just saying the quality of the build and sound was appalling for the price they are asking stick with some better brands.

Comparing them to a pitbull is like putting comparing a 1992 Honda Civic with some hard miles to a Porsche...and asking you to justify paying a similar price. Don't do it.

I saw a generic local band using a Satan live a few weeks ago and it sounded killer. The other guy had some old Randall and they were both heard, both cut through and their sound was amazing.

Can't speak on the build quality but they sound great live IMO.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Wizard of Oz will probably chime in here as he did in your other thread. If not, shoot him a PM. He currently owns, or at least did recently, a Satan and has owned damn near every Engl several times over.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Short answer don't waste your money on the Satan. That amp literally had the worse build quality of any amp I've ever purchased and even after an expensive re tube could never hang in a mix and just sounded terrible.

I also saw meshuggah play with them but through the live nation monitors with a backing track and perfect mix I'm pretty sure I could get anything to sound good. I would also bet that the amps they are using had some heavy modifications and probably weren't stock.

Just saying the quality of the build and sound was appalling for the price they are asking stick with some better brands.

Comparing them to a pitbull is like putting comparing a 1992 Honda Civic with some hard miles to a Porsche...and asking you to justify paying a similar price. Don't do it.

You are so off base with this post, it's comical. What's bad about the Satan design? Please share with the group? Have you opened the amp up? What sounded bad about the amp? Please be specific.

I do own and have been inside the Satan. The pots are chassis mounted, both the oversized OT & PT are bolted to the chassis. The pcbs are thicker than normal, and again are steel bolted to the chassis... no plastic pcb mounts like Mesa uses. Power section on a separate board with individual screen resistors for each tube. D.C. Heaters for the preamp tubes to ensure quiet noise levels. What's "bad" about it?

Meshuggahs Satans are stock. No mods.

Either you've never owned a Satan or you are repeating some poor third hand info.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Wizard of Oz will probably chime in here as he did in your other thread. If not, shoot him a PM. He currently owns, or at least did recently, a Satan and has owned damn near every Engl several times over.

Yup. Still have the Satan and the SE EL34. Both are killers. No question. The SE is way more saturated with more low end on tap via the deep and mlp modes (which I mostly never need as there is more than enough with a decent 4x12). If you want a slightly dryer... steering towards the Fryette UL sound, get the Satan. Mike Fortin who designed and built the Satan has owned and been inside the UL. And it shows in the Satan. Not the overall sound, but in the low noise floor, transparent fx, and wide sweeping useable gain range. The decrease I saturated gain and more articulation as well. The Satan also incorporated the high/low preamp gain shape by filters found only in one other German high gainer I've seen.

Both the SE and Satan are killer amps that do just fine in any mix. They are pretty different sounding and need to be tested out first hand. They do different things and cover different bases. Which is why I own both and they do compliment each other. If you down play 7-8 string axes or downtune, both will stay very tight and focused no matter what, which is a similarity I love about both amps.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I also saw meshuggah play with them but through the live nation monitors with a backing track and perfect mix I'm pretty sure I could get anything to sound good. I would also bet that the amps they are using had some heavy modifications and probably weren't stock.

hahaha, so you think Meshuggah is playing with backing tracks???

also, Mike Fortin himself has said they are completely stock.

Yep... recorded by Britney Spears on bass and Lady Gaga doing all lead guitar. I thought everyone knew this?

This guy has to be a troll. Not even a good one.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

It's the voicing Matt. People are used to it. If it's not saturated with mega-bass it's got to be bad. You know that.

When are you getting another SE?

Wizards and Les Pauls... you've gone vintage! Next thing you'll get a Strat and start playing blues!

 

[Intimidator333]

Ok thanks so far guys. Has anyone played both the 667 and the Satan? Don't need everything it does but would prefer the multiple channel options on the 667 but would settle for just the clean and dirty with the Satan if the Satan is that much better.

 

[RockyStar]

It appears that there is a misunderstanding between gain and saturation. The "dry" of the UL doesn't equate to it lacking gain. It has plenty of gain. It doesn't have as much saturation in the gain structure as some other amps.

 

[RedB4Black]

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

It's the voicing Matt. People are used to it. If it's not saturated with mega-bass it's got to be bad. You know that.

When are you getting another SE?

Wizards and Les Pauls... you've gone vintage! Next thing you'll get a Strat and start playing blues!

I liked the SE a lot, but I don't see going that route again. Just don't like amps with a lot of compression these days. The Wizards can get just as heavy as any "metal" amp and have killed my GAS for anything else. The only amps that I've played that comes close to the way a cranked Wizard feels is a reborn Mesa Triple, SLO and the UL.

 

[Deleted member 22177]

I recently bought a Satan after reading about it for a couple years and hearing all the negative talk about the Fortin Randalls. I finally pulled the trigger and I'm happy with the Satan. It doesn't dial in like other amps, for instance, the channel volume needs to be up pretty high to make the amp come alive. All of the knobs are sensitive too. The master volume is great and sounds killer at low volumes. The clean channel is amazing as well. As far as the quality goes, I wouldn't worry too much about that. Mike Fortin and Ola would not put out a shit product for 2k. Anyway, I like the Satan so much I might get the Kirk Hammet or 667 too. BTW, Meshuggah's amps are stock Satans.

 

[Metal1977]

I tried the Satan and the 667 side by side at a music store with the same setup.
667 like Reza said sounded very good but at the end i felt like it was the same basic sound that you could tweak as you wish, too much overlapping with all the channels.
Satan on the other end, has tons of possibilities for shaping you're sound but is more on the extreme side. The mids are very crunchy, you can make it sound big but super tight at the same time. Very modern voicing

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

It's the voicing Matt. People are used to it. If it's not saturated with mega-bass it's got to be bad. You know that.

When are you getting another SE?

Wizards and Les Pauls... you've gone vintage! Next thing you'll get a Strat and start playing blues!

I liked the SE a lot, but I don't see going that route again. Just don't like amps with a lot of compression these days. The Wizards can get just as heavy as any "metal" amp and have killed my GAS for anything else. The only amps that I've played that comes close to the way a cranked Wizard feels is a reborn Mesa Triple, SLO and the UL.

I hear you and agree about the compression. Too much compression and too dark of a voicing really turns me off too. Kills too much of the feel.

Well if I order a Wizard Metal... it's all your fault.

I keep hearing great things about them.

 

[RedB4Black]

I really like the Pittbull UL but wish it had the gain and that edge to it that Engls have and wish Engls weren't so thin and had the chunk that the VHT has.

I just don't understand when people say the UL needs more gain/edge. If you are looking for fizz/compression - yeah, I can understand it, but because the UL lacks those things. But saying it lacks gain makes me scratch my head. If you like ENGLs, I'd say get the SE, there is no lacking for chunk there.

It's the voicing Matt. People are used to it. If it's not saturated with mega-bass it's got to be bad. You know that.

When are you getting another SE?

Wizards and Les Pauls... you've gone vintage! Next thing you'll get a Strat and start playing blues!

I liked the SE a lot, but I don't see going that route again. Just don't like amps with a lot of compression these days. The Wizards can get just as heavy as any "metal" amp and have killed my GAS for anything else. The only amps that I've played that comes close to the way a cranked Wizard feels is a reborn Mesa Triple, SLO and the UL.

I hear you and agree about the compression. Too much compression and too dark of a voicing really turns me off too. Kills too much of the feel.

Well if I order a Wizard Metal... it's all your fault.

I keep hearing great things about them.

Someone say Wizard MTL???

You should get the MTL. It'll pay for itself with all the cash you get back from selling the Satan and SE.

The video sounds great, but it doesn't do the amp justice....it gives you a little taste of what it sounds like, it's hard to capture the in the room feel of the amp when it's cranked up from a video.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I liked the SE a lot, but I don't see going that route again. Just don't like amps with a lot of compression these days. The Wizards can get just as heavy as any "metal" amp and have killed my GAS for anything else. The only amps that I've played that comes close to the way a cranked Wizard feels is a reborn Mesa Triple, SLO and the UL.

You should get the MTL. It'll pay for itself with all the cash you get back from selling the Satan and SE.

It's only a matter of time.

It's one of the few I haven't messed with yet. Its part of a very exclusive list. They look really well built too.

The Reborn Multi-Watt Rectos are cool too. I wish Mesa would come out with a 2 channel Recto, only 1st and 3rd channel, and no Recto tubes. No one uses the tube rectifier option. The tubes always blow first and need to be replaced... even when you never use them.