Archon + Suhr Reactive + IRs = Weak Tone?!?!?!?!?!

[taiyed]

Long-time lurker here. I recently picked up an PRS Archon 50 head, looking to rip some killer metal tone in the home studio. Currently, I have the head route through a Suhr Reactive Load. From there, it heads into a Scarlett 616.

The problem is...it sounds weak to me? It feels like there should be another gear in terms of distortion and sustain and overall skull-crushing epicness.

I've got a PRS Custom 24 and PRS Single Cut as my primary axes, and I use a Mogami instrument cable to the head and then Mogami speaker cables to connect the Archon to the Suhr Reactive Load and the Reactive Load to the Scarlett 616.

Finally, I round everything out using ML Soundlab IRs via CabLab in Cubase.

I'm curious to hear from you experts. Is there something that I'm massively missing that is holding back the balls on this tone? Are my tubes messed up? Do I have some boneheaded setting on the Archon or the Suhr? Is my Scarlett a problem for some reason I've never noticed before? Are the IRs the problem?

Or, are my expectations out of wack and the tone is actually fine?

I can't figure it out, and I figured I'd ask people a lot smarter than me!

Here's a clip of isolated guitars (shitty 1 takes just testing the tone...note even close to final takes) below and picture of my setup:

Clip
https://soundcloud.com/taiyed187/oberon-guitar-tone-test-10-9-20

Setup

 

[Steinmetzify]

I don’t hear anything wrong with this man.

That’s gonna sound thick as fuck doubled and with some bass underneath it.

Are you boosting it?

How are you monitoring this? Headphones/monitors etc?

Maybe this is just you getting used to hearing your guitar tone like that?

 

[Kordoba]

Sounds good to me. FWIW I usually run the level on my Suhr RL straight up or slightly to the left.

Does your interface have the mix control thing? I had a Scarlett that had that and didn't like it. Just one more thing to fight with IMO.

 

[Texhex]

I use a Mogami instrument cable to the head and then Mogami speaker cables to connect the Archon to the Suhr Reactive Load and the Reactive Load to the Scarlett 616."

You should use an instrument cable or XLR cable to go from the Suhr RL to your Scarlett DI.

 

[taiyed]

Thanks all. Couple quick replies:

-I am not boosting it. I’ll run a tube screamer and see if that’s the difference maker.

-I’m using my studio monitors that I’ve had forever, and comping them against a variety of isolated guitar tracks for bands I like. That’s where I’m getting the vibe that these are a little weak.

-I’ll try having the Suhr at 12 o’clock to see if that changes things. Appreciate that.

-Yea, my interface does have that mix control thing. It’s a bit annoying, but is it the culprit?

-Very interesting on the instrument/XLR suggestion. I’ll definitely give that a go, as well.

Much appreciated, everyone!

 

[JerEvil]

Sounds a little murky but not weak at all to me. Keep in mind, your isolated tracks you’re listening to are still probably multi-tracks separated out.

 

[vchizzle]

Doesn't sound bad to me. Turn the gain up a bit maybe? I find that the sweet spot for the volume on the 100 watt Archon is somewhere around 10-11:00. Maybe that would help. Here's a super low volume clip of mine with my phone in front of the cab(maybe with a zoom mic attached, I forget).

 

[PBGas]

I would normally have written off this amp and something that I did not like....but I tell you, that was a mistake. There is some really crushing tone out of these!

The clip sounds great! Sometimes listening through headphones can make the illusion that things don’t sound as they should.

 

[ericb]

I use a Mogami instrument cable to the head and then Mogami speaker cables to connect the Archon to the Suhr Reactive Load and the Reactive Load to the Scarlett 616."

You should use an instrument cable or XLR cable to go from the Suhr RL to your Scarlett DI.

Most definitely THIS! Clip sounds great, great playing. Definitely need instrument 1/4" or xlr though and not speaker cable going in to the interface

Eric

 

[Meeotch]

See here at 4:33

 

[Kordoba]

Thanks all. Couple quick replies:

-I am not boosting it. I’ll run a tube screamer and see if that’s the difference maker.

-I’m using my studio monitors that I’ve had forever, and comping them against a variety of isolated guitar tracks for bands I like. That’s where I’m getting the vibe that these are a little weak.

-I’ll try having the Suhr at 12 o’clock to see if that changes things. Appreciate that.

-Yea, my interface does have that mix control thing. It’s a bit annoying, but is it the culprit?

-Very interesting on the instrument/XLR suggestion. I’ll definitely give that a go, as well.

Much appreciated, everyone!

I found the mix control to be an unnecessary hassle, but as long as you know how to deal with it you're fine. As others have said, the instrument cable from the Suhr to the interface is what you want to do.

 

[dudu]

A VERY important thing to remember with your RL: make sure the input impedance of your audio interface is higher than the output impedance of the RL (which is 6KOhm). In other words, do NOT connect it using XLR to a microphone input. For best results, use an instrument high impedance (around 1MOhm) input on your audio interface.

The IR revision of the Suhr RL has a much lower output impedance of only 600 Ohm so it is less sensitive to impedance mismatch scenarios, but still works best with high impedance inputs.

 

[RaceU4her]

that sounds fine to me.

 

[errrrrl]

Sounds ok to me but its worth noting that for me personally I can' get the suhr + rl to sound exactly like how my setup usually sounds jamming in a room. It can get close but does lack that air pushing thick chug effect.. an EQ in the loop can help with that.

I recommend tweaking your amp thru your cab to sound the way you like it, then setup with the suhr and try to find an IR that comes close. I like the ownhammer heavy hitters. Also I prefer the regular instrument out vs the xlr and make sure your interface is set for HI-Z/instrument jack. Also I like to set my input jack so it just barely clips on hard chugs, no idea if that makes a difference lol. Also for some amps I prefer to have the master down a bit and the suhr maxed out to the right, it sounds cleaner to me that way but need to layer tracks to sound full. Good luck dude!

 

[slash57]

Thanks guys, didn't know xlr to xlr is not recommended for this device and Hi-Z should be used.

Too bad I can't do that with the Torpedo Reload with the RME UCX, it says in the UCX manual Hi Z mode should only be used with unbalanced cables, not TRS. The Torpedo Reload only has a balanced loadbox output though.

What happens if the input impedance is too low? It gets darker, right?

To the OP: Sounds great to me, probably even better with the Instrument cable between 6i6 and the load and Hi-Z mode

 

[errrrrl]

Thanks guys, didn't know xlr to xlr is not recommended for this device and Hi-Z should be used.

Too bad I can't do that with the Torpedo Reload with the RME UCX, it says in the UCX manual Hi Z mode should only be used with unbalanced cables, not TRS. The Torpedo Reload only has a balanced loadbox output though.

What happens if the input impedance is too low? It gets darker, right?

To the OP: Sounds great to me, probably even better with the Instrument cable between 6i6 and the load and Hi-Z mode

I'm not sure I'd say XLR is not recommended, if I were trying to get the cleanest of cleans then I'd probably go that route. It's been awhile but I did all kinds of testing and came away thinking TRS sounded better for high gain to my ears... I def could be wrong though Also I too use an RME UCX and normally use the inputs 3/4 with instrument mode On (hi-z) in TotalFX with the suhr or waza.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

If you're not liking the sound you're getting with that rig, change your IR. That's going to be easily the most influential element of your sound.

Then again, if all you're looking for is "bigness" you could just try putting an EQ in the chain and boosting some of the low mids.

 

[born_hard]

A VERY important thing to remember with your RL: make sure the input impedance of your audio interface is higher than the output impedance of the RL (which is 6KOhm). In other words, do NOT connect it using XLR to a microphone input. For best results, use an instrument high impedance (around 1MOhm) input on your audio interface.

The IR revision of the Suhr RL has a much lower output impedance of only 600 Ohm so it is less sensitive to impedance mismatch scenarios, but still works best with high impedance inputs.

Thats the most important thing and you should check this first. After that you can play with IRs and EQ curves.

 

[Tone Monster]

Sounds good to me. Maybe lacking just a bit of bite and clarity. Splitting hairs.

 

[Bardagh]

Definitely try a boost, but these are also known to be darker sounding amps so you may need to go beyond what you think are “normal” settings to find brighter/more cutting sounds. When I had a PRS MT15 briefly I was surprised how I had to run the presence almost at 10 and the treble pretty high to get it into some kind of acceptable territory for me. Cool amp but ultimately I felt like I was fighting its fundamental sound too much.

The other thing is the IR you’re using- it makes ALL the difference. ML Soundlab makes great IRs but some of them are way too smooth and dark sounding for my liking. For instance the Bogner cab pack sounds pretty rounded off to me, especially if you use the mixed IRs (the ones with silly names) but the Mega Green and Mega Djent packs are awesome and have plenty of punch and cut. I will say though that to me the best “raw” sounding IRs might be the ones from ValhallaIR. They definitely need postEQ like a raw recording would, but I think this is also probably why they seem to react better to the amps EQ and such. I think the ML Soundlab IRs are more or a “mix ready” kind of thing. So you may hear more of what your ears are missing from the ValhallaIR stuff even if that stuff might not be helpful in a full mix.