Are speakers my problem? advice needed!

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hthomas

hthomas

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So here's my situation. I have had a speaker mix in a PC 2x12 cab of a WGS ET-65 and Invader 50(doesnt sound like any greenback ive played...) It sounds really good for cleans and but not so much on the overdrive side of things. The invader 50 is a very upper mid heavy speaker. I tried playing my modded marshall amp that ive been working on through that speaker mix and there is just this high end sizzle that is there that is awful IMO. I feel like the amp is brighter than it should be. I've tried tweaking the amp to the speaker but I still think the speakers are whats hurting me. I feel like it's taking away from the marshall flavor and the awesome midrange snarl that we all love.

Should I get proper greenback style speakers? I feel like if I had a speaker combo that was more low end and and low mid focused I'd be better off.

Thoughts anyone?
 
I had the same issue with the WGS Invader. I hated it.....extremely bright, thin, and harsh. Any other GB clone (high power or not) will sound much better. If you need the extra wattage, get the Celestion Lynchback......greatest thing since sliced bread IMO! Even the Eminence Private Jack sounds better than the Invader. If you don't need the watts, then regular old Chinese GB's are great after a short break in period.
 
EyesOfTheSouth":3pl5nknh said:
I had the same issue with the WGS Invader. I hated it.....extremely bright, thin, and harsh. Any other GB clone (high power or not) will sound much better. If you need the extra wattage, get the Celestion Lynchback......greatest thing since sliced bread IMO! Even the Eminence Private Jack sounds better than the Invader. If you don't need the watts, then regular old Chinese GB's are great after a short break in period.
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Was thinking of trying a scumback m75/ h75 mix
 
It's gotta be that Invader, because the pair of ET65's I owned had almost nonexistent treble, without sounding dark. Nice mids and tight lows too.

Maybe see if you can trade the Invader with someone straight across for another speaker.
A Veteran 30 is really nice with the ET65. It isn't bright and has a smooth mid punch and a fat, tight lowend.
The Invader is still a new product and Vet30s are everywhere. Someone would likely want to do that trade.
 
I have to say it again for the sake of fairness...

I own some Invaders, use them in one of my cabs. The Invader isn't a particularly bright (or thin) speaker in my experience, and I've heard a bunch of them in different cabs to have that opinion (the shop that makes my head shells also makes speaker cabinets, and I sometimes test them/compare speakers). A customer of mine (who owns a few cabs, and has been through a bunch of speakers) owns a quad of them too, and our opinions are generally the same about them.

As for the ET65, that is a speaker I'd have say is a bit on the bright side, or that the treble seems prominent in a particular way which sounds "edgy" and "crackly" (if the speaker itself isn't particularly bright overall). This is a speaker I've heard many of, as well, in several cabs.

Both these speakers have been fairly consistent from what I've heard, and from what customers and friends of mine in the city have heard and shared as opinions with me.

I'm not saying you folks haven't had the experiences you've had, but the opinions you've expressed don't seem to fit what those speakers were really meant to do. If you're fairly certain of your opinions, it might suggest that some Invader weren't built quite the same way...or some speakers got mislabeled perhaps. Of course speakers will perform differently in different cabinets, too. I wonder if the fact I've been hearing them in cabs made of certain dimensions (deeper) with baltic birch (not just "void free birch" which could be any shop-grade stuff) has something to do with it. Although I have used many other speakers in the same cabs, so it's still relative even in that case.
 
Me saying the treble was nonexistent with the ET65 may have been an exaggeration. Overly smooth treble would have been a better description.

I like a bright, acidic, sounding high gain tone, with a crisp attack and tight lows.
In comparison to my other speakers at the time, Greenbacks, Retro 30's, Veteran 30's, G12T75's & Vintage 30's were all brighter than the ET65's.
Are all of those speakers naturally bright sounding as is? Possibly...but my findings led me sell the 65's regardless.
They have nice mids, and a fairly tight lowend, but just way too smooth of a top end and not a wide or deep enough sounding lowend. When I attempted to add the lacking treble or presence via the amp eq the speaker just thinned out too much.
I like them just fine, but they don't suit/serve my needs. They are by no means a bad speaker.
 
JamesPeters":2hajs42x said:
I have to say it again for the sake of fairness...

I own some Invaders, use them in one of my cabs. The Invader isn't a particularly bright (or thin) speaker in my experience, and I've heard a bunch of them in different cabs to have that opinion (the shop that makes my head shells also makes speaker cabinets, and I sometimes test them/compare speakers). A customer of mine (who owns a few cabs, and has been through a bunch of speakers) owns a quad of them too, and our opinions are generally the same about them.

As for the ET65, that is a speaker I'd have say is a bit on the bright side, or that the treble seems prominent in a particular way which sounds "edgy" and "crackly" (if the speaker itself isn't particularly bright overall). This is a speaker I've heard many of, as well, in several cabs.

Both these speakers have been fairly consistent from what I've heard, and from what customers and friends of mine in the city have heard and shared as opinions with me.

I'm not saying you folks haven't had the experiences you've had, but the opinions you've expressed don't seem to fit what those speakers were really meant to do. If you're fairly certain of your opinions, it might suggest that some Invader weren't built quite the same way...or some speakers got mislabeled perhaps. Of course speakers will perform differently in different cabinets, too. I wonder if the fact I've been hearing them in cabs made of certain dimensions (deeper) with baltic birch (not just "void free birch" which could be any shop-grade stuff) has something to do with it. Although I have used many other speakers in the same cabs, so it's still relative even in that case.
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I suppose it's possible that I got a bad one. I also had a pair of Green Berets (with their newer magnet sticker) that I thought were very thin/bright. I didn't have this problem with my old pair that I bought shortly after their release.
 
racerevlon":20p0bivt said:
Use 1 x ET65 + 1 x Liberator (WGS)
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Heh...I use Liberator combined with Invader to get a more aggressive sound with more treble than the Invader has. :) I had four Liberators in one 4x12 and four Invaders in a second 4x12 cab (of the same design), and found one cab a bit too round/smooth for my tastes (Invader) and the other just a bit too aggressive/harsh in the treble (Liberator). An x-pattern of the two in one cab sounds excellent to me.

Also I would've mixed the Invader with ET65 but found the ET65's treble to sound a bit too harsh (the Liberator seems smoother in that regard).

To hthomas: Have you tried ET65 on their own, and Invader on their own? Maybe it's the blend of the two, or the ET65 that you don't like.

I wouldn't even consider the Invader "very upper mid heavy", but then again I was comparing to Celestion Vintage 30 in that regard so I'm not sure what your frame of reference is.
 
Liberator has more treble than Invader?? At 80W vs. 50w I would think the Liberator wouldn't be as piercing. Thanks for the info. Was looking to do the ET65/Liberator thing myself with either Jet City or Splawn amps.
 
racerevlon":3hae39bp said:
Liberator has more treble than Invader?? At 80W vs. 50w I would think the Liberator wouldn't be as piercing. Thanks for the info. Was looking to do the ET65/Liberator thing myself with either Jet City or Splawn amps.
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The Liberator is based on the ET65 with some changes, one of them being its higher power rating. So in that regard the change in sound is along the lines of what you would expect--the treble isn't as gritty as (it's more round than) the ET65. The Invader's design however has more differences from the ET65 and Liberator, so you can't consider the Invader's power rating alone to be indicative of how smooth it will sound.

If you like the ET65, you might still like mixing it with the Liberator. I'm not a fan of the ET65 in general, but the Liberator was smooth enough for me (as a "higher powered" version of the ET65) that I can appreciate it.
 
Everybody is diff and has diff perceptions of what sounds good, speakers are a tough thing to go by internet thoughts, I have not tried every speaker their is but my 2 fav combinations are Vet30/ET65 and a V30/H75 Scum, once I found those two combinations I stopped, those cover classic/hard rock extremely well for me, what they would sound like in a PC cab I have no idea.
 
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