Awesome tone = less gain stages?

[redrol]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages. I don't know too much about vintage amps but I think my Voodoo Amps Hex has 3-4 gain stages with the 4th being switchable. How many stages to super basses and stock plexis and JMP's have?

Anyone have anything to add to this conjecture?

 

[MrDan666]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages. I don't know too much about vintage amps but I think my Voodoo Amps Hex has 3-4 gain stages with the 4th being switchable. How many stages to super basses and stock plexis and JMP's have?

Anyone have anything to add to this conjecture?

I believe Plexis and super basses are both 2 gain stage amps!

 

[redrol]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages. I don't know too much about vintage amps but I think my Voodoo Amps Hex has 3-4 gain stages with the 4th being switchable. How many stages to super basses and stock plexis and JMP's have?

Anyone have anything to add to this conjecture?

I believe Plexis and super basses are both 2 gain stage amps!

Well that helps my theory! I totally love the tone from those superbasses! HMMMMMMMM

 

[MrDan666]

Well that helps my theory! I totally love the tone from those superbasses! HMMMMMMMM

Well i dont believe that its the amount of gainstages that makes it sound good or bad.. I have heard many amps with up to 4 or 5 gainstages which sound incredible! Its the entire design of the amp and the way each stage is voiced, which makes the amp sound great

 

[Code001]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages.

That's kinda like saying amps with less knobs have better tone. It's the sum of the whole, man.

 

[redrol]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages.

That's kinda like saying amps with less knobs have better tone. It's the sum of the whole, man.

Not really. Technically I believe that the more gain stages you add the less original guitar tone you have left after the tone stack. For some uses this is good and others not so good.

 

[Code001]

After checking out that VH superbass tone thread, I got to thinking that maybe the secret to awesome tone is actually low gain stages.

That's kinda like saying amps with less knobs have better tone. It's the sum of the whole, man.

Not really. Technically I believe that the more gain stages you add the less original guitar tone you have left after the tone stack. For some uses this is good and others not so good.

Depends on what tone you're going for.

That's kinda like saying amps with less knobs have better tone. It's the sum of the whole, man.

Alot of people think that, actually...

But it doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Anonymous]

I've heard 4 stages sound great and I've heard 2 gain stages sound great. Great tones can be had with all sorts of gain structures.

steve

 

[Gainfreak]

I've heard 4 stages sound great and I've heard 2 gain stages sound great. Great tones can be had with all sorts of gain structures.

steve

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Code001]

I've heard 4 stages sound great and I've heard 2 gain stages sound great. Great tones can be had with all sorts of gain structures.

steve

Exactly. It depends on the overall design. One small portion such as gain stages, knobs, filtering, brand of caps, etc. doesn't automatically make an amp "better."

 

[Gainfreak]

I've heard 4 stages sound great and I've heard 2 gain stages sound great. Great tones can be had with all sorts of gain structures.

steve

Exactly. It depends on the overall design. One small portion such as gain stages, knobs, filtering, brand of caps, etc. doesn't automatically make an amp "better."

 

[degenaro]

I had the same discussion many times. And as a rule guys that dig old Marhsalls (unmodded!) usually tend to not be interested in amps with more than 3 pre-amp tubes. Take that FWIW.

 

[degenaro]

I've heard 4 stages sound great and I've heard 2 gain stages sound great. Great tones can be had with all sorts of gain structures.

steve

Exactly. It depends on the overall design. One small portion such as gain stages, knobs, filtering, brand of caps, etc. doesn't automatically make an amp "better."

It does, but there are only so many ways to skin a cat. Or to quote my boss..."give 30 monkeys a soldering iron and one of them is bound to come up with a Bassman".

 

[degenaro]

That's kinda like saying amps with less knobs have better tone. It's the sum of the whole, man.

Alot of people think that, actually...

But it doesn't mean it's true.

In this case an universal truth can be fond in the ear of the beholder. On either side of the argument.

 

[Code001]

But it doesn't mean it's true.

It's "true" to the people that think that, though.

Those 1/2 watt SS op-amp design amps with just 1 knob must be tone heaven for them.

 

[squealie]

Ive heard techs say that the less 'stuff' in the circuit.... the more likely that critical signal attributes like PHASE and TRANSIENT RESPONSE stay coherent.

I don't know. But that kinda makes sense. And I didn't take that to mean that amps COULDNT be built which kept signal integrity...but obviously, it gets harder and more costly.

 

[dstroud]

Something that I've noticed is a bit of "magic" that happens when the PI tube is driven hard in an amp with 3 total (including PI) preamp tubes. Having the PI tube driven is, to me, different sounding than having just another tube in the preamp creating distortion. To me, most amps with 3 or more preamp tubes (before the PI) don't benefit from the PI being driven hard, but take an amp with 2 preamp tubes and add in the PI being driven hard, and that's the kinda sound I really like.

 

[Gainfreak]

I think that we are getting minimal controls on an amp confused with gain stages.

I have heard some killer sounds generated by amps that had minimal gain stages and killer sounds by amps that are just flame throwers. I think the real thing here is that there is more the one way to skin a cat. Im one of those weird guys who likes both type of tones but I think the most important thing to remember is that if a tone works, it works. It kills me when people come up with formulas as to what is BEST and I find that is very limiting IMHO.

 

[dstroud]

I think that we are getting minimal controls on an amp confused with gain stages.

I have heard some killer sounds generated by amps that had minimal gain stages and killer sounds by amps that are just flame throwers. I think the real thing here is that there is more ways to skin a cat. Im one of those weird guys who likes both type of tones but I think the most important thing to remember is that if a tone works, it works. It kills me when people come up with formulas as to what is BEST and I find that is very limiting IMHO.

I won't say I've tried tons of amps, but I've tried various Mesa's, Carvin Legacy, and my DSL100 (all have several preamp tubes) - if I used a hotplate with those, cranked the master to 10 and adjusted gain to taste, I never got what I consider a good tone. I'm not saying they didn't sound good otherwise, just not with the master on 10 - that's what kinda lead me to how I think about the PI and gain stages, and that's what helped me figure out what I actually like to get out of an amp.

 

[Gainfreak]

I think that we are getting minimal controls on an amp confused with gain stages.

I have heard some killer sounds generated by amps that had minimal gain stages and killer sounds by amps that are just flame throwers. I think the real thing here is that there is more ways to skin a cat. Im one of those weird guys who likes both type of tones but I think the most important thing to remember is that if a tone works, it works. It kills me when people come up with formulas as to what is BEST and I find that is very limiting IMHO.

I won't say I've tried tons of amps, but I've tried various Mesa's, Carvin Legacy, and my DSL100 (all have several preamp tubes) - if I used a hotplate with those, cranked the master to 10 and adjusted gain to taste, I never got what I consider a good tone. I'm not saying they didn't sound good otherwise, just not with the master on 10 - that's what kinda lead me to how I think about the PI and gain stages, and that's what helped me figure out what I actually like to get out of an amp.

Well it depends. Not all amps will sound good with the master on 10 especially when you are talking about an amp that has a master volume and multiple gain stages. Take the mesa for instance. Mesa's are all about the preamp section and although you can ,You don't have to crank the master on 10 to make them sound good nor were they designed to be used that way IMHO. It seems like you are telling me that you picked amps with higher gain stages and master volumes and you expected them to sound and work like a NMV amp?
In the case if the DSl, you would have to keep the preamp on 3 and the master up and maybe use a hotplate. Ive heard killer sounds comming out of a DSL this way.