Bare Knuckle pups and Diezel Hagen & VH4

[FourT6and2]

I'm liking the Holy Divers more and more. They're everything I liked about the JB, minus all the stuff I hated. Mean mid-range, sweet top-end, tight(er) bass response. The bridge pickup is very vocal, and pinches have a half-cocked wah pedal sound.

I wonder how the Black Dogs will compare. They seem like they would be very similar, but with a lower output. So they should be a little less compressed, maybe?

 

[ericsabbath]

I'm liking the Holy Divers more and more. They're everything I liked about the JB, minus all the stuff I hated. Mean mid-range, sweet top-end, tight(er) bass response. The bridge pickup is very vocal, and pinches have a half-cocked wah pedal sound.

I wonder how the Black Dogs will compare. They seem like they would be very similar, but with a lower output. So they should be a little less compressed, maybe?

did you get them already?
tried the holy diver and black dog on a straight swap in my '73 custom (very thin mahogany neck)
they did in fact sounded quite close, but the dog is warmer and a little darker, and still a little compressed, compared to the riff raff, but with a full and dense midrange just like the holy diver... not as aggressive in the upper mids, though
the '73 ended up with a custom riff raff (33% thicker magnet, so output is a little higher) and the dog is now in my '78 greco les paul standard (brazilian rosewood board/maple neck)

the greco sounds more compressed and full, very strong in-your-face midrange focus with the dog... really growly and juicy... I love how it pushes the gain in the right frequencies
the custom sounds deeper, brighter and really open with the raff... it has a wider frequency range with stronger low and top ends... not a middy pickup as shown in the official chart... more like flat mids, which is why it sounds so open
I love how they sound so different and just as good as the other

also had the cold sweat neck in the bridge position of the greco, and it was the most articulate bridge pickup I ever played... the specs are pretty much the same as the black dog, but with a lower dc like the riff raff... it was quite bright, like the riff raff, but had more upper mids and less bass, a little more articulation and a modern shredder feel... sounded a lot like Paul Gilbert (and I'm not a shredder by any means... my playing is pure Tool/Alice/Sabbath)
I don't like it that much in the neck of the same greco, although I loved it in at least 3 other guitars, including the '73 custom, that now has a BK mule

concerning the amp relashionship, I usually play them into a heavily modded '73 50w JMP (sounds somewhere between a shiva, an stock plexi and an od100 or something.... it's a quite high gain, bass heavy, fat and smooth amp), or a zambelli hyperdrive 50w (more ccv-like tight and edgy aggression with lots of gain) or a cheap modded leadvox tube preamp that's now wired with a diezel vh4 channel 3 circuit (sounds a lot like the amp, but it's smoother and less saturated)
I love how the low output bare knuckle pickups sound way more open and versatile through all of them (I'm being specific about BKP's, cause gibsons and some others SUCK through high gain)
I use lower gain settings to get a clean tone from the distorted channels and add a ts9dx for the "br00thulz"

(sorry for the bump, I've been away from forums by a long period)

 

[ericsabbath]

Just my opinion and 2 cents:
Don´t use PU´s with more than 10k ohm.

and the prophet reveals the word


I was a 14k+ pickup user for years, and now I can't stand most of them, except for a couple BKP's
the cold sweat and holy diver sound amazing through the diezel vh4s and einstein
my bandmate has a vh4 based dual tube pedal and the miracle man also screams through that little thing
but I probably will never go over 10k again, though
I hope this doesn't "evolve" into some sort of singlecoil/telecaster love (urgh!)

 

[FourT6and2]

I'm liking the Holy Divers more and more. They're everything I liked about the JB, minus all the stuff I hated. Mean mid-range, sweet top-end, tight(er) bass response. The bridge pickup is very vocal, and pinches have a half-cocked wah pedal sound.

I wonder how the Black Dogs will compare. They seem like they would be very similar, but with a lower output. So they should be a little less compressed, maybe?

did you get them already?
tried the holy diver and black dog on a straight swap in my '73 custom (very thin mahogany neck)
they did in fact sounded quite close, but the dog is warmer and a little darker, and still a little compressed, compared to the riff raff, but with a full and dense midrange just like the holy diver... not as aggressive in the upper mids, though
the '73 ended up with a custom riff raff (33% thicker magnet, so output is a little higher) and the dog is now in my '78 greco les paul standard (brazilian rosewood board/maple neck)

the greco sounds more compressed and full, very strong in-your-face midrange focus with the dog... really growly and juicy... I love how it pushes the gain in the right frequencies
the custom sounds deeper, brighter and really open with the raff... it has a wider frequency range with stronger low and top ends... not a middy pickup as shown in the official chart... more like flat mids, which is why it sounds so open
I love how they sound so different and just as good as the other

also had the cold sweat neck in the bridge position of the greco, and it was the most articulate bridge pickup I ever played... the specs are pretty much the same as the black dog, but with a lower dc like the riff raff... it was quite bright, like the riff raff, but had more upper mids and less bass, a little more articulation and a modern shredder feel... sounded a lot like Paul Gilbert (and I'm not a shredder by any means... my playing is pure Tool/Alice/Sabbath)
I don't like it that much in the neck of the same greco, although I loved it in at least 3 other guitars, including the '73 custom, that now has a BK mule

concerning the amp relashionship, I usually play them into a heavily modded '73 50w JMP (sounds somewhere between a shiva, an stock plexi and an od100 or something.... it's a quite high gain, bass heavy, fat and smooth amp), or a zambelli hyperdrive 50w (more ccv-like tight and edgy aggression with lots of gain) or a cheap modded leadvox tube preamp that's now wired with a diezel vh4 channel 3 circuit (sounds a lot like the amp, but it's smoother and less saturated)
I love how the low output bare knuckle pickups sound way more open and versatile through all of them (I'm being specific about BKP's, cause gibsons and some others SUCK through high gain)
I use lower gain settings to get a clean tone from the distorted channels and add a ts9dx for the "br00thulz"

(sorry for the bump, I've been away from forums by a long period)

Awesome. Thanks!

I will eventually try both the Holy Diver and Black Dog in both of my Les Pauls. But it's a pain to swap them out. Especially because one I'll have to try both guitars with both pickups as well as modern vs. 50's wiring. I have a feeling the '79 (maple neck) will sound better with the Black Dog and the '84 (mahogany) will sound better with the Holy Diver. But right now, the Holy Divers sound AMAZING in my '79.

I picked it up from my tech the other day after he set it up and plugged into the clean channel on some old Sovtek amp he had in the shop and it sounded just like a freaking piano. Or a bell. Or a piano/bell hybrid.

I'm glad I didn't get the Riff Raffs. I think they'd be too bright for me.

 

[spirit7]

I'm liking the Holy Divers more and more. They're everything I liked about the JB, minus all the stuff I hated. Mean mid-range, sweet top-end, tight(er) bass response. The bridge pickup is very vocal, and pinches have a half-cocked wah pedal sound.

I wonder how the Black Dogs will compare. They seem like they would be very similar, but with a lower output. So they should be a little less compressed, maybe?

did you get them already?
tried the holy diver and black dog on a straight swap in my '73 custom (very thin mahogany neck)
they did in fact sounded quite close, but the dog is warmer and a little darker, and still a little compressed, compared to the riff raff, but with a full and dense midrange just like the holy diver... not as aggressive in the upper mids, though
the '73 ended up with a custom riff raff (33% thicker magnet, so output is a little higher) and the dog is now in my '78 greco les paul standard (brazilian rosewood board/maple neck)

the greco sounds more compressed and full, very strong in-your-face midrange focus with the dog... really growly and juicy... I love how it pushes the gain in the right frequencies
the custom sounds deeper, brighter and really open with the raff... it has a wider frequency range with stronger low and top ends... not a middy pickup as shown in the official chart... more like flat mids, which is why it sounds so open
I love how they sound so different and just as good as the other

also had the cold sweat neck in the bridge position of the greco, and it was the most articulate bridge pickup I ever played... the specs are pretty much the same as the black dog, but with a lower dc like the riff raff... it was quite bright, like the riff raff, but had more upper mids and less bass, a little more articulation and a modern shredder feel... sounded a lot like Paul Gilbert (and I'm not a shredder by any means... my playing is pure Tool/Alice/Sabbath)
I don't like it that much in the neck of the same greco, although I loved it in at least 3 other guitars, including the '73 custom, that now has a BK mule

concerning the amp relashionship, I usually play them into a heavily modded '73 50w JMP (sounds somewhere between a shiva, an stock plexi and an od100 or something.... it's a quite high gain, bass heavy, fat and smooth amp), or a zambelli hyperdrive 50w (more ccv-like tight and edgy aggression with lots of gain) or a cheap modded leadvox tube preamp that's now wired with a diezel vh4 channel 3 circuit (sounds a lot like the amp, but it's smoother and less saturated)
I love how the low output bare knuckle pickups sound way more open and versatile through all of them (I'm being specific about BKP's, cause gibsons and some others SUCK through high gain)
I use lower gain settings to get a clean tone from the distorted channels and add a ts9dx for the "br00thulz"

(sorry for the bump, I've been away from forums by a long period)

Awesome. Thanks!

I will eventually try both the Holy Diver and Black Dog in both of my Les Pauls. But it's a pain to swap them out. Especially because one I'll have to try both guitars with both pickups as well as modern vs. 50's wiring. I have a feeling the '79 (maple neck) will sound better with the Black Dog and the '84 (mahogany) will sound better with the Holy Diver. But right now, the Holy Divers sound AMAZING in my '79.

I picked it up from my tech the other day after he set it up and plugged into the clean channel on some old Sovtek amp he had in the shop and it sounded just like a freaking piano. Or a bell. Or a piano/bell hybrid.

I'm glad I didn't get the Riff Raffs. I think they'd be too bright for me.

Holydiver will probably sound better in your '79 mate. It's quite a dark pickup. I have it in a Suhr Guthrie Govan (mahogany body, pau ferro neck) and it's ever so slightly too dark.

-C

 

[FourT6and2]

I'm liking the Holy Divers more and more. They're everything I liked about the JB, minus all the stuff I hated. Mean mid-range, sweet top-end, tight(er) bass response. The bridge pickup is very vocal, and pinches have a half-cocked wah pedal sound.

I wonder how the Black Dogs will compare. They seem like they would be very similar, but with a lower output. So they should be a little less compressed, maybe?

did you get them already?
tried the holy diver and black dog on a straight swap in my '73 custom (very thin mahogany neck)
they did in fact sounded quite close, but the dog is warmer and a little darker, and still a little compressed, compared to the riff raff, but with a full and dense midrange just like the holy diver... not as aggressive in the upper mids, though
the '73 ended up with a custom riff raff (33% thicker magnet, so output is a little higher) and the dog is now in my '78 greco les paul standard (brazilian rosewood board/maple neck)

the greco sounds more compressed and full, very strong in-your-face midrange focus with the dog... really growly and juicy... I love how it pushes the gain in the right frequencies
the custom sounds deeper, brighter and really open with the raff... it has a wider frequency range with stronger low and top ends... not a middy pickup as shown in the official chart... more like flat mids, which is why it sounds so open
I love how they sound so different and just as good as the other

also had the cold sweat neck in the bridge position of the greco, and it was the most articulate bridge pickup I ever played... the specs are pretty much the same as the black dog, but with a lower dc like the riff raff... it was quite bright, like the riff raff, but had more upper mids and less bass, a little more articulation and a modern shredder feel... sounded a lot like Paul Gilbert (and I'm not a shredder by any means... my playing is pure Tool/Alice/Sabbath)
I don't like it that much in the neck of the same greco, although I loved it in at least 3 other guitars, including the '73 custom, that now has a BK mule

concerning the amp relashionship, I usually play them into a heavily modded '73 50w JMP (sounds somewhere between a shiva, an stock plexi and an od100 or something.... it's a quite high gain, bass heavy, fat and smooth amp), or a zambelli hyperdrive 50w (more ccv-like tight and edgy aggression with lots of gain) or a cheap modded leadvox tube preamp that's now wired with a diezel vh4 channel 3 circuit (sounds a lot like the amp, but it's smoother and less saturated)
I love how the low output bare knuckle pickups sound way more open and versatile through all of them (I'm being specific about BKP's, cause gibsons and some others SUCK through high gain)
I use lower gain settings to get a clean tone from the distorted channels and add a ts9dx for the "br00thulz"

(sorry for the bump, I've been away from forums by a long period)

Awesome. Thanks!

I will eventually try both the Holy Diver and Black Dog in both of my Les Pauls. But it's a pain to swap them out. Especially because one I'll have to try both guitars with both pickups as well as modern vs. 50's wiring. I have a feeling the '79 (maple neck) will sound better with the Black Dog and the '84 (mahogany) will sound better with the Holy Diver. But right now, the Holy Divers sound AMAZING in my '79.

I picked it up from my tech the other day after he set it up and plugged into the clean channel on some old Sovtek amp he had in the shop and it sounded just like a freaking piano. Or a bell. Or a piano/bell hybrid.

I'm glad I didn't get the Riff Raffs. I think they'd be too bright for me.

Holydiver will probably sound better in your '79 mate. It's quite a dark pickup. I have it in a Suhr Guthrie Govan (mahogany body, pau ferro neck) and it's ever so slightly too dark.

-C

Thanks. Aren't the Black Dogs dark as well, and more middy?

 

[ericsabbath]

yes, the dog is a bit darkish
I wouldn't say the diver is a dark sounding pickup, though
I had the holy diver in at least 3 les pauls, one being a very a dark sounding les paul copy with brazilian mahogany, brazilian rosewood board and brazilian imbuya top (quite dark wood for tops, even compared to mahogany)
it only sounded dark a Gibson SG

the dog may sound better in the maple neck cause they usually have a snappier attack and pushed upper mids
I wasn't a big fan of the dog in my mahogany neck custom, although it sounded good

 

[cardinal]

Just installed a Holy Diver 7 string pup into a guitar that I've been struggling with, tone-wise. I've only had a few minutes with it, but I can tell that the HD was really the ticket. This particular guitar was giving me some harsh top end that's been driving me nuts, and the HD was recommended to me because it would tame that down. It did just that. Very crunchy/dirty in the mids, which is also what I was hoping for.

I also was told that the HD would be "VH4 friendly," and I'd have to agree. Not compressed, at least relative to what I'm use to (responds well to pick attack and volume knob changes, and doesn't sound congested). It also isn't really pushing the front of the amp all that hard, despite the somewhat high DC resistance.

I'm really liking it so far.

 

[Ventura]

Thanks. Aren't the Black Dogs dark as well, and more middy?

I wouldn't consider them 'dark' on their own... Not at all, then again, the ones I've got are mated to a maple topped Lester with Ebony fingerboard. Those 2 woods I am sure add some sizzle to the frequency. I love 'em.

But ya bugger, now you've got me looking at the Divers... Bastid!!

Glad you're lovin' em man!!

Mojo