Baron Custom Amps K2 Audio Demo

[fuzzyguitars]

The amp is very focused in the low mids and not so much in the very low end. Having a guitar amp voiced with so much sub lows, like some designs are, is completely ridiculous. The guitar is a midrange instrument and needs plenty of power throughout a relatively narrow range of very important frequencies IMHO. This amp sits great in mixes, because it leaves a nice deal of highs for cymbals and vocal air, as well as plenty of room for bass guitar. I also keep my cabinet a decent distance from the wall when I record and the cabinet is on casters, which is very nicely decoupled from the ground.

This is exactly how my Fortin Hulk Modded Marshall is designed. Guys who don't play in bands would probably not like this amp because it does not have a ton of sub low end (80hz and below) like a Bogner Twin Jet or Diezel Herbert...but it sounds better than those amps in a mix by far, and the bass is tighter than either of those amps.

I dig the K2 and K88, by the way. Great clean tones as well.

I thought the K88 I had sounded great in my bedroom. But I will agree, it was definitely different than the Bogner/Diezel/ENGL type amps I generally go for.

care to eleaborate a little.

i know that you have gone through a bunch of amps.

how does it compare say to these amps
slo
5150
egnater mod100

thanks

and herbert too!

 

[nbarts]

Well, my dear fella forumites, I'm the bass player of our band, and I have to tell you that amps with more lows don't bother me at all. For me guitar rig's low end is about shaping the "right" compression when driving the speakers & that extra energy that comes out of it. It's actually so much cooler live than recorded. When I had a Fender P Bass, I couldn't get that thing sit in the mix, it was a struggle. Then I bought my Horizon bass & it just seamlessly blended in the mix. As far as I'm concerned bass rig's low end goes far lower (I don't like any bass amp without that Ampeg's ultra low kinda thing) & is more powerful & it's cutting through frequencies are at 1K & 7K. So just because your taste is different is no reason to assume that people who play Bogners or Diezels don't play in bands.

The amp is very focused in the low mids and not so much in the very low end. Having a guitar amp voiced with so much sub lows, like some designs are, is completely ridiculous. The guitar is a midrange instrument and needs plenty of power throughout a relatively narrow range of very important frequencies IMHO. This amp sits great in mixes, because it leaves a nice deal of highs for cymbals and vocal air, as well as plenty of room for bass guitar. I also keep my cabinet a decent distance from the wall when I record and the cabinet is on casters, which is very nicely decoupled from the ground.

This is exactly how my Fortin Hulk Modded Marshall is designed. Guys who don't play in bands would probably not like this amp because it does not have a ton of sub low end (80hz and below) like a Bogner Twin Jet or Diezel Herbert...but it sounds better than those amps in a mix by far, and the bass is tighter than either of those amps.

I dig the K2 and K88, by the way. Great clean tones as well.

 

[RedB4Black]

The amp is very focused in the low mids and not so much in the very low end. Having a guitar amp voiced with so much sub lows, like some designs are, is completely ridiculous. The guitar is a midrange instrument and needs plenty of power throughout a relatively narrow range of very important frequencies IMHO. This amp sits great in mixes, because it leaves a nice deal of highs for cymbals and vocal air, as well as plenty of room for bass guitar. I also keep my cabinet a decent distance from the wall when I record and the cabinet is on casters, which is very nicely decoupled from the ground.

This is exactly how my Fortin Hulk Modded Marshall is designed. Guys who don't play in bands would probably not like this amp because it does not have a ton of sub low end (80hz and below) like a Bogner Twin Jet or Diezel Herbert...but it sounds better than those amps in a mix by far, and the bass is tighter than either of those amps.

I dig the K2 and K88, by the way. Great clean tones as well.

I thought the K88 I had sounded great in my bedroom. But I will agree, it was definitely different than the Bogner/Diezel/ENGL type amps I generally go for.

care to eleaborate a little.

i know that you have gone through a bunch of amps.

how does it compare say to these amps
slo
5150
egnater mod100

thanks

and herbert too!

To me, it's alot brighter and has more mids than most amps I've traditionally liked alot. It's very clear, but it gets alot of saturation like a 5150 - just no fizz. You could probably be close if you crossed an SLO and a 5150. It's not super tight, but it is not way loose either. Kind of perfect. The tone is great, but not as thick sounding as my Herbert or a Bogner or the VHT UL I had that replaced it. Never had an Egnater. I had the dual gain option. I thought that the amp had a ton of gain - even in the low-gain mode. Almost too much. I like alot of gain though. This amp takes a boost real well too. Another thing is the loop is perfect. No tone loss or volume change whatsoever. Plus it has an external bias pot.

 

[nbarts]

Plus it has an external bias pot.

+1 in my book!!!

 

[jguzmos]

I really dig all of the Baron clips I have heard. I like the low gain demo at the end of this clip. Sounds Great!

 

[killertone]

So just because your taste is different is no reason to assume that people who play Bogners or Diezels don't play in bands.

That is not what I said by any stretch...I play in a band with a guy who owns a Bogner TJ. I was merely saying that when you don't use an amp in a band setting and are jamming by yourself, huge bass response sounds killer. I like it myself! However, when you get in a band situation, it does not sit in a mix very well. I am saying that from almost 20 years as a touring sound engineer as well as guitar and bass tech. Ubers and Herberts are killer amps, not saying that they aren't, and they (and any other huge low end style amp) can be set up to sit in a mix when the bass is reigned in a bit. Otherwise it gets kind of ugly down there.

 

[Digital Jams]

The amp is very focused in the low mids and not so much in the very low end. Having a guitar amp voiced with so much sub lows, like some designs are, is completely ridiculous. The guitar is a midrange instrument and needs plenty of power throughout a relatively narrow range of very important frequencies IMHO. This amp sits great in mixes, because it leaves a nice deal of highs for cymbals and vocal air, as well as plenty of room for bass guitar. I also keep my cabinet a decent distance from the wall when I record and the cabinet is on casters, which is very nicely decoupled from the ground.

This is exactly how my Fortin Hulk Modded Marshall is designed. Guys who don't play in bands would probably not like this amp because it does not have a ton of sub low end (80hz and below) like a Bogner Twin Jet or Diezel Herbert...but it sounds better than those amps in a mix by far, and the bass is tighter than either of those amps.

I dig the K2 and K88, by the way. Great clean tones as well.

Agree big time, the amps with monster low end do not cut in the mix as well either since you are now fighting the bass and getting washed out by the cymbals. Why marshall roar always cuts

 

[nbarts]

I don't buy the whole "amps with low end don't cut in the mix" thing. If it doesn't cut through then there is something fundamentaly wrong with band's mix. I personally can't stand guys that come along with their v30s & rectifiers or marshalls with a shitloud of high mids dialed in that may seem to cut well & by doing this pushing the drummer bang on the cymbals; the truth is that it simply hurts & not pleasant to listen. I enjoy a good Marshall sound when it's dialed in right, but in my experience, people who have this "I need to cut through" logic aren't those who get a great sound out of a Marshall. I don't enjoy going back home with my ears ringing & this crazy live sound trend. I remember going back from BB King's concert with my ears totally hammered, because the sound guy had a shitload of high mids on the snare to make it cut, which was because there was too much high mids in everything else. In my humble opinion it's pretty simple to get a great mix with pretty much any amp available these days, however bassist's rig needs to match guitarist's rig. If the bassist comes along with a rig that shouldn't be played with the specific amp, then blaming the amp is probably not the right thing to do. Band members should mix themselves & once they do the sound guys won't have to do all kinds of ridiculous things to make it cut through or whatever.

 

[glpg80]

any single one person here knows when their amplifier is pumping too much of any frequency - high's mids and lows.

but people's hearing are just like their eyesight - not every persons will be perfect. so there is one factor.

i do get what everyone means with the purpose of a guitar amplifier sitting in the mix - its the design of a guitar in general in relation to other instruments.

but you can still have your low end within reason and also mix well. you wont be fighting for frequencies because bass guitar is a full octave down, and if everyone knows how to play in time it will actually work to compliment each instrument and add fullness.

a speaker cannot handle anything above 5Khz or lower than 75Hz and most amplifiers will not be voiced to accent that low frequency range due to blocking distortion and also wasted power/headroom of the tubes.

how an amplifier is VOICED deals with how well it cuts - the bandpass filter of an amplifier is only a fraction of the tuning capabilties of the designers who make the amplifiers. marshalls and SLO's cut like a knife because they dont have overly compressed and overly saturated gain tones that come through as mushy which in itself doesnt mix - it has nothing to do with the mids and adding more of them just makes the tone change - either desired or undesired. its just a low-pass setting which shanks the highs to ground.

and technically speaking the bass frequencies are nothing more than low mids when you think of the entire band junction - not having them at all will sound like a knife cutting through the mix yes - but having them present and in proper mix and voicing will fill out much better in a mix as well.

if the person doing sound has an ear or not doesnt matter on this topic. the soundboard engineer can make or break a great live sound but if you have the band mixed properly in relation to gear and proper settings and tunings, they shouldnt need to add anything more than vocals and possibly drum mics to increase amplitude.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

I don't buy the whole "amps with low end don't cut in the mix" thing. If it doesn't cut through then there is something fundamentaly wrong with band's mix. I personally can't stand guys that come along with their v30s & rectifiers or marshalls with a shitloud of high mids dialed in that may seem to cut well & by doing this pushing the drummer bang on the cymbals; the truth is that it simply hurts & not pleasant to listen. I enjoy a good Marshall sound when it's dialed in right, but in my experience, people who have this "I need to cut through" logic aren't those who get a great sound out of a Marshall. I don't enjoy going back home with my ears ringing & this crazy live sound trend. I remember going back from BB King's concert with my ears totally hammered, because the sound guy had a shitload of high mids on the snare to make it cut, which was because there was too much high mids in everything else. In my humble opinion it's pretty simple to get a great mix with pretty much any amp available these days, however bassist's rig needs to match guitarist's rig. If the bassist comes along with a rig that shouldn't be played with the specific amp, then blaming the amp is probably not the right thing to do. Band members should mix themselves & once they do the sound guys won't have to do all kinds of ridiculous things to make it cut through or whatever.

I agree
Especially this..

Band members should mix themselves & once they do the sound guys won't have to do all kinds of ridiculous things to make it cut through or whatever.

Never had the so-called problems or Myth of not cutting through due to a lack of Mids...
I laugh every time I read that comment here...

 

[nbarts]

marshalls and SLO's cut like a knife because they dont have overly compressed and overly saturated gain tones that come through as mushy which in itself doesnt mix - it has nothing to do with the mids and adding more of them just makes the tone change - either desired or undesired.

Thank you, that's also correct & very good point. It seems like when people see a gain knob they have to dime it as high as they can, it certainly is not going to sound good first & won't cut second. I tend to use max 45% on current production amps & it seems plenty for me. I used 15% of gain on Diezel Einstein's 2nd channel live, sounds more than enough for me.

 

[killertone]

I don't buy the whole "amps with low end don't cut in the mix" thing. If it doesn't cut through then there is something fundamentaly wrong with band's mix. I personally can't stand guys that come along with their v30s & rectifiers or marshalls with a shitloud of high mids dialed in that may seem to cut well & by doing this pushing the drummer bang on the cymbals; the truth is that it simply hurts & not pleasant to listen. I enjoy a good Marshall sound when it's dialed in right, but in my experience, people who have this "I need to cut through" logic aren't those who get a great sound out of a Marshall. I don't enjoy going back home with my ears ringing & this crazy live sound trend. I remember going back from BB King's concert with my ears totally hammered, because the sound guy had a shitload of high mids on the snare to make it cut, which was because there was too much high mids in everything else. In my humble opinion it's pretty simple to get a great mix with pretty much any amp available these days, however bassist's rig needs to match guitarist's rig. If the bassist comes along with a rig that shouldn't be played with the specific amp, then blaming the amp is probably not the right thing to do. Band members should mix themselves & once they do the sound guys won't have to do all kinds of ridiculous things to make it cut through or whatever.

Once again, I never said anything about cranking mids to sit in a mix. I never even touched upon it any of my posts. But since you mentioned it, I agree, cranking mids to sit in a mix is unpleasant to listen to and even more unpleasant to play on. However, all I have been talking about in this thread is excessive amounts of bass content, pure and simple. Everyone can believe whatever they want but when there are multiple instruments fighting for the same sonic space, something is going to get buried. That is just physics, can't change that. I have mixed close to 3,000 live shows and know this to be the case in my experience. You are correct, band members should mix themselves, and that is exactly what I am talking about. Even before a mic is placed on any amp/cab, the instruments are fighting for sonic space. If the instruments are all stomping on each other in rehearsal then it is very unlikely that it will get fixed in the PA without a decent soundcheck. Who gets those?! I am not talking about drastically changing your tone, just shaping it slightly to better fit in the sonic spectrum with the instrumentation of your band.

 

[skoora]

The Band mixing them self sounds great in theory but I can't remember one band I was in that had that kind of selflessness in how they approached "their" sound or gear. We all know what it's like to try and have the conversations about someone else's tone or approach to dialing in their rig, or needing a different rig altogether and how well they can go. It's a shame because sound checks are negligible and as much as a band can be well balanced is golden. As far as what amp may cut vs. others I believe it's user error, not so much the amp. But I will say that a dual rec has consistently been an amp that get's lost in the bass and the cymbals at almost any show I've seen one used (in a metal context). I'm a Marshall guy, not because they cut, which they do, but because I like the basic Marshall tone in my head. I don't get the bass/lowmid heavy amps purely because it doesn't respond to a guitar in the way I want to hear. I imagine someone who likes those amps is more in tune with putting it in a band context.

The Baron is definitely more in my interest than a Diezel or Uberschall.

 

[lolzgreg]

That's because the Baron puts many an amp to shame