BE-100 vs XTC 101B & XTC 20th

[MistaGuitah]

G.A.S. is a terrible thing. After working my way all the way up to finally getting a BE-100 & being totally satisfied with it, I stroll into Guitar Center to buy a pedal and heard the most amazing lead tone fluttering away in the background. Behold, I saw a Bogner XTC 101B and 20th Anniversary sitting pretty in the Platinum Room. By the way apparently some monumental goof traded them both in for peanuts to buy a PRS which he STILL had to add money on top of. So back to yesterday, it has been a good while since I played either of those amps but for whatever reason I remembered them as being a shade dark.

I've been on the BE100 high all week so it was totally unexpected to be completely blown away by two amps that I played a lot years ago. In fact it's curious why there has been virtually no discussions on these iconic amps. In memory they were rather dark but you could even tell through all the Guitar Center noise and inside a closed room that the amps cut right through everything. The character is warm but not dark.

This is so crazy because I'm totally satisfied with the BE100. I KNOW how great is it yet still the urge to trade it for a 20th or 101B is there. It's a wonder how these magnificent amplifiers have not been at the forefront for me after all the years gone by. I'm not going to make any moves right now because it would be smart to settle more with the BE and see if the urge passes or dies down but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I should have given them a good play before spending so much. Well as to the discussion at hand it's kind of hard to believe regular references aren't made to the XTC anymore. It's probably because Bogner came out with the Helios and Telos and people are still absorbing it all but still how can these amps have been forgotten? What is your assessment and how do you think they compare to the BE100?

 

[glpg80]

Man, GAS won't even let you enjoy your recent investment. What a bitch she is!

I would say that the BE-100 is a cleaner-type of distortion, where the Bogner's sound more saturated if that makes sense. Depends on what you're going after - I'd take your amp in there and run it against them both before they're gone to do a side by side test. IMHO the 101b is in the same tonal pallet as the BE100, but the 20th is a different animal. I do know the 101b takes pedals EXTREMELY well and can get into stone temple pilots territory without a problem with a boost.

That's what I'd do if I were in your shoes. Good luck!

 

[MistaGuitah]

Man, GAS won't even let you enjoy your recent investment. What a bitch she is!

I would say that the BE-100 is a cleaner-type of distortion, where the Bogner's sound more saturated if that makes sense. Depends on what you're going after - I'd take your amp in there and run it against them both before they're gone to do a side by side test. IMHO the 101b is in the same tonal pallet as the BE100, but the 20th is a different animal. I do know the 101b takes pedals EXTREMELY well and can get into stone temple pilots territory without a problem with a boost.

That's what I'd do if I were in your shoes. Good luck!

There's actually a BE100 in stock but I didn't plug into it. That's a good idea. I called the store at closing and all three amps are still there so I'm going to drive up in the morning and do an ABC comparison.

 

[Rdodson]

which GC?

 

[fusedbrain]

Well.... I owned a 101B and a BE100 at the same time. Both great amps.
The clean channel on the 101B is just hands down better, although the clean on the BE100 is easy to tweak.
Every time I plugged into the 101B for mid gain or high gain rock tones, I always thought it sounded good, but the BE100 did those tones better to my ear.
The Red channel on the 101B probably does the real heavy stuff better than the BE100 but it's close.
For the modded Marshally tones I needed out of those amps, the BE100 was just better.
To me, the strength of the 101B is in the 3 channel versatility, with the foot controler for the 3 channels + boost. Probably one of the best channel switchers ever.
I sold the 101B to a friend who plays a ton of different gigs covering many styles of music, and he loves it. In the end, it may all come down to how you are going to use the amp.
Only other thing I would mention is that I think the 101B sounds best through V30's, and the BE100 sounds best with some greenbacks in the mix, like the Friedman 4x12, so watch what cab you're plugged into if you A/B them.

No opinion on a 20th, Never played one, but I hear they are amazing.

 

[MistaGuitah]

Well.... I owned a 101B and a BE100 at the same time. Both great amps.
The clean channel on the 101B is just hands down better, although the clean on the BE100 is easy to tweak.
Every time I plugged into the 101B for mid gain or high gain rock tones, I always thought it sounded good, but the BE100 did those tones better to my ear.
The Red channel on the 101B probably does the real heavy stuff better than the BE100 but it's close.
For the modded Marshally tones I needed out of those amps, the BE100 was just better.
To me, the strength of the 101B is in the 3 channel versatility, with the foot controler for the 3 channels + boost. Probably one of the best channel switchers ever.
I sold the 101B to a friend who plays a ton of different gigs covering many styles of music, and he loves it. In the end, it may all come down to how you are going to use the amp.
Only other thing I would mention is that I think the 101B sounds best through V30's, and the BE100 sounds best with some greenbacks in the mix, like the Friedman 4x12, so watch what cab you're plugged into if you A/B them.

No opinion on a 20th, Never played one, but I hear they are amazing.

It was the red channel on both amps that really grabbed hold of me. The BE100 cleans seem better to me but the blue channel boosted and the red channel reach places the BE100 can't go. It just occurred to me that I could try out the Bogner Blue and Red pedals and see what that gets me. I'll do that tomorrow when I go back.

 

[ChurchHill]

I only own one of these three, so I can only comment on that. I can't imagine an amp that responds so well to my playing than the XTC 101B. Just simply perfection. Of course, that has a lot to do with the way I play, too, but the XTC just sings, screams, cries, everything... it's like it's playing me, not me playing it (at least it feels that way sometimes). I love getting lost in the tone so much that I forget that I'm actually playing and can just listen. I went with the 101B because I thought it was closer to the sounds I was expecting to get out of it. It delivered, better than expected, but I do remain curious about the 20th XTC.

I'm not sure that either the 101B or the 20th XTC has been forgotten. I remember several threads over the past few weeks that have discussed them (maybe not as the main topic, but certainly a significant part of the discussion).

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

I'm understanding the BE50 Deluxe has a more aggressive HBE channel, so it may still not get to the gain of the 101B, but since it's gain is a bit different, it may sound as aggressive, but I've not played either. Just adding that as another option.

 

[mooncobra]

the 20th XTC is awesome. I always liked this clip, the tone is good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8LwolL72Mc&t=66s

 

[MistaGuitah]

the 20th XTC is awesome. I always liked this clip, the tone is good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8LwolL72Mc&t=66s

That was some delicious tone.

 

[Kidkramer71]

I have a 101b that I have had since 97 or 98 ?
I still love it very versstile amp !!
Yes gas strikes all the time !!
I also have a 100 w Helios killer amp, not as versatile as the 101b.
Have had many other amps.
Although I always want other ams , if I had to pick one amp only , for me its the 101b !!

 

[GOHOINC]

I've been an Ecstasy player for years with both a 20th Ann. El34 and a Classic. I just made the switch to Friedmans (JJ and Butterslax) but still have an Ecstasy Classic. While I dont have direct experience with the standard 101b or the BE100, there is enough overlap in what I have/had to give some input which may be helpful.

Folks may agree or disagree, but in my head when I hear the Ecstasy, now, it makes me think of a guy in designer clothes, maybe even a vest, where their hair is being blown back as though a majestic wind is always slightly off center but still in front of them. Virtuoso players who are immensely respected for their ability and or tone, but maybe don't really have that much to say outside of "hey, look what I can do" to an audience of people that appreciate how great the guitar player is. I was never able to get the 20th to sound pissed off. Tons of gain on tap but that still didn't make it sound aggressive to me. The Classic is less compressed and sounds more aggressive to me than the 20th but it is still more polished sounding than the Friedmans.

When I hear the Friedmans I picture a sweaty dude on stage, t shirt is too small, jeans too tight, drinks too much, but is chugging riffs and/or shredding to a crowd of people going berserk who probably don't even realize that the band has a guitar player.

To put it simply, imo, the Ecstasy line is more refined and elegant tonally than the Friedmans which I would say are more raw and angry. That is not a judgement of tone quality in anyway shape or form, you pick the flavor that suits your taste. The ecstasy covers a wider range of tones than the Friedmans, 6 tones at the click of a footswitch vs. 3 at most on Friedmans many of which require mods to make them all footswitchable.

 

[MistaGuitah]

I've been an Ecstasy player for years with both a 20th Ann. El34 and a Classic. I just made the switch to Friedmans (JJ and Butterslax) but still have an Ecstasy Classic. While I dont have direct experience with the standard 101b or the BE100, there is enough overlap in what I have/had to give some input which may be helpful.

Folks may agree or disagree, but in my head when I hear the Ecstasy, now, it makes me think of a guy in designer clothes, maybe even a vest, where their hair is being blown back as though a majestic wind is always slightly off center but still in front of them. Virtuoso players who are immensely respected for their ability and or tone, but maybe don't really have that much to say outside of "hey, look what I can do" to an audience of people that appreciate how great the guitar player is. I was never able to get the 20th to sound pissed off. Tons of gain on tap but that still didn't make it sound aggressive to me. The Classic is less compressed and sounds more aggressive to me than the 20th but it is still more polished sounding than the Friedmans.

When I hear the Friedmans I picture a sweaty dude on stage, t shirt is too small, jeans too tight, drinks too much, but is chugging riffs and/or shredding to a crowd of people going berserk who probably don't even realize that the band has a guitar player.

To put it simply, imo, the Ecstasy line is more refined and elegant tonally than the Friedmans which I would say are more raw and angry. That is not a judgement of tone quality in anyway shape or form, you pick the flavor that suits your taste. The ecstasy covers a wider range of tones than the Friedmans, 6 tones at the click of a footswitch vs. 3 at most on Friedmans many of which require mods to make them all footswitchable.

I don't know about all the imagery but think the BE100 is just as refined and smooth as both XTCs. For high gain amps it's amazing that they all can do high gain without too much compression. Bogners are generally warmer I think both versions of the XTC can be all out aggressive as the BE100 can potentially and even a little more. I don't know that XTC classic too well because I have not played one of those since 2006 but I do agree that it was more raw.

There are many similarities between the BE and XTC in my view. They both make you feel like you're cheating because they give in to your playing so easily that they have an almost intuitive feel. There is not too much compression, at least if you do not use very hot pickups, and that is so good for soloing because you can really squeeze a lot out of every note. The XTC is punchier and it may not feel like it but you can hear the sag or squash or whatever they call it that results from the pick hitting the string. I think Friedmans do the same thing but without the little extra pick sound. Well I take that back a bit because it does have a punchy pick sound but more laser like and focused. Bogners pick sound kind of punches out from the lower mid range.

It's a bad thing to discuss these amps too much because it gives me GAS fever! LOL. When I get my promotion next year then I can finally afford to have a nice amp collection. No big moves until then.

 

[scottosan]

The XTC will be infinitely more versatile. If you want mostly moderate to hobby Bain then the BE will do. The XTC will run circles around the BE in the medium to clean tones.

 

[ChurchHill]

That is not a judgement of tone quality in anyway shape or form, you pick the flavor that suits your taste.

I think you make an excellent point here. I think these three amps (BE-100, 101B, XTC 20th) are certainly among the best amps available today, likely among the best ever made. Features aside, add a good boost or two and they're all as versatile as anyone would likely need. Guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't think you could go wrong with any of them (or all of them). It all just comes down to what works best for your style, which one speaks to you.

Case in point, one of the things I love about the XTC is that it does sound polished. It does that sound *really* well. When I want to sound raw, it's not the amp I plug into. That works for me, but won't work for everyone. And that's the beauty of it, I think... it would be rather boring if we all loved and played the same amp.

 

[Whowantsamustache]

How about a PWE amplifier?

 

[MistaGuitah]

That is not a judgement of tone quality in anyway shape or form, you pick the flavor that suits your taste.

I think you make an excellent point here. I think these three amps (BE-100, 101B, XTC 20th) are certainly among the best amps available today, likely among the best ever made. Features aside, add a good boost or two and they're all as versatile as anyone would likely need. Guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't think you could go wrong with any of them (or all of them). It all just comes down to what works best for your style, which one speaks to you.

Case in point, one of the things I love about the XTC is that it does sound polished. It does that sound *really* well. When I want to sound raw, it's not the amp I plug into. That works for me, but won't work for everyone. And that's the beauty of it, I think... it would be rather boring if we all loved and played the same amp.

I've got some V30s which to me is a very aggressive speaker so I wonder if there's a speaker that will give me a more aggressive edge without sounding harsh. Have you done any speaker swaps?

 

[ChurchHill]

Sure, I've got several 4x12 cabs with different Celestions in them. Lately, I've been liking the G12M-65 Creamback the best with my XTC. It's got good lows and isn't as "spiky" as the V30 can be, but still had a lot of the Greenback character. I also like the Heritage Greenbacks, more of a vintage sound but still with a lot of bite. The G12-35XC is good, too, kind of a middle ground between the Creamback and the Greenback.

I've got a Bogner cab that I'm wanting to try a combination of V30s and Creambacks in. I've heard good things about this combo (I typically don't mix speakers in a cab, just personal preference), but I haven't tried it just yet. Based on running two cabs, the Creambacks should fill out the low end and smooth the highs while still getting some of the V30 bite. I think both Friedman and Bogner offer 4x12s with a combo of V30s and Greenbacks, and I think that would sound good, too, maybe a little lighter on the low end (could be a good thing). I'm wanting to try Creambacks instead because I like slightly bigger lows and are closer to the V30 in power handling.

 

[MistaGuitah]

Sure, I've got several 4x12 cabs with different Celestions in them. Lately, I've been liking the G12M-65 Creamback the best with my XTC. It's got good lows and isn't as "spiky" as the V30 can be, but still had a lot of the Greenback character. I also like the Heritage Greenbacks, more of a vintage sound but still with a lot of bite. The G12-35XC is good, too, kind of a middle ground between the Creamback and the Greenback.

I've got a Bogner cab that I'm wanting to try a combination of V30s and Creambacks in. I've heard good things about this combo (I typically don't mix speakers in a cab, just personal preference), but I haven't tried it just yet. Based on running two cabs, the Creambacks should fill out the low end and smooth the highs while still getting some of the V30 bite. I think both Friedman and Bogner offer 4x12s with a combo of V30s and Greenbacks, and I think that would sound good, too, maybe a little lighter on the low end (could be a good thing). I'm wanting to try Creambacks instead because I like slightly bigger lows and are closer to the V30 in power handling.

How about G12H30s? I have some 65 Creambacks and really liked them at first but am starting not to like them so much. I don't know what it is but something I started noticing recently doesn't appeal so much. I picked up a G12H30 on the used market and have been using it in a 1x12 cab, and it seems to really like the BE100. I sounds like it has a bigger low end than the Creambacks and the high end is a little bright which seems to let the BE sound more aggressive without getting too harsh.

 

[ChurchHill]

Yeah, I think the G12H30s would be a great choice. I have a G12H30-Anniversary paired with a V30 in a 2x12 and I've got Heritage G12H-55s in a 4x12. I'd really like to get a set of Heritage G12H-75s, too... maybe one of these days. From what I've heard about them, I think I'd like those the best of the three types (supposedly better mids than the 55s and a touch smoother highs than the Annies, but I can't confirm that). I like the Annies a little better than the 55s because they seem to have a touch more mid, although they don't quite have the character of the 55s.

Just make sure that they're broken in before making any judgements. They can all be pretty harsh until they've got some good playtime on them. Once they break in, they're nice and bright, but not harsh. I think they pair well with V30s, and IIRC, several people have said they're really good with other modded-Marshall types. It's been awhile since I've played my XTC through G12Hs... think I might try that tonight.