BE channel of BE-100 (2016) vs. BE of JJ

[idnotbe]

How much different are they?
Anyone can elevorate the comparison??

I am asking, because...
I have a latest version of BE-100.
I wonder i need to add JJ in my collection for the BE channel of JJ.

 

[SavageRiffer]

How much different are they?
Anyone can elevorate the comparison??

I am asking, because...
I have a latest version of BE-100.
I wonder i need to add JJ in my collection for the BE channel of JJ.

The BE is a bit smoother and the JJ is a bit more aggressive. Both are incredible, but I prefer the JJ. When I'm using an overdrive/boost, it seems like the BE compresses a bit more or something. The JJ has a little more aggressive edge so I like it with my pedals.... well, perhaps my preference is negligible. I love both amps.

 

[MrFlexx]

As said in the above post...the JJ's BE-channel is fatter and more angry...more in your face and gut...loads of bottom.

 

[journeyman73]

i thought the updated BE WAS the JJ's BE channel?

 

[CrazyNutz]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

 

[SavageRiffer]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

Good to know! You have a schematic for that mod?

 

[scottosan]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

 

[CrazyNutz]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

Good to know! You have a schematic for that mod?

I have schemos of full amps, just don't want to float them all out there. I might annotate a BE100 gutshot with the values that need to change to get JJ BE.

 

[CrazyNutz]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

Genius level marketing really. Dave is selling 80-90% of the same amp over and over to the same customers

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

 

[idnotbe]

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

maybe a dumb question.

i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.

but the challenges are...

- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.

are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.

 

[JerEvil]

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

maybe a dumb question.

i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.

but the challenges are...

- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.

are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.

Send your amp to Dave to mod? Would help the resale as opposed to a local guy doing it.

 

[scottosan]

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

maybe a dumb question.

i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.

but the challenges are...

- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.

are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.

Send your amp to Dave to mod? Would help the resale as opposed to a local guy doing it.

I agree with this^^^^

 

[CrazyNutz]

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

maybe a dumb question.

i always felt there is no amp that perfectly fits my taste.
if i can change just a little bit, then i can probably go there.

but the challenges are...

- if i modify my stock BE-100, then i should drop the resale value of the amp significant. and no guarantee that it will turn into the amp i've dreamed.
- if i build an amp from the scratch, it needs enormous effort to learn. i have to do more important things in my life than amp building. and considering my man hour, it is not cost effective.

are there some solution?
for ex, a reliable custom builder, etc.

Yes you are correct on both points, ask Dave if he will do the mods for you.

 

[technomancer]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.

 

[scottosan]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.

I agree

 

[technomancer]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.

I agree

So thinking about this a bit you could easily put the voltage divider and resonance cap on a switch, the pre-filter caps and choke obviously not so much. Heck the C45 switch is already swapping around the voltage divider on that gain stage on the stock BE100. Wonder how close it would be tonally.

Might have to find out

 

[CrazyNutz]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.

I agree

So thinking about this a bit you could easily put the voltage divider and resonance cap on a switch, the pre-filter caps and choke obviously not so much. Heck the C45 switch is already swapping around the voltage divider on that gain stage on the stock BE100. Wonder how close it would be tonally.

Might have to find out

Yes indeed you can. The filter caps are so close they only make a small difference. As for the choke, I think the 3H sounds better on a BE anyhow.

One other difference is the voice switch. The BE switches between a 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, and a 500pf on the input of the tone stack. The JJ switches between the same 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, but instead of the 500pf (this is totally removed), it engages the sat circuit.

 

[technomancer]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

What I find really interesting about it having owned a BE and a JJ at the same time is the relatively substantial differences in tone minor component substitutions make in the amps.

I agree

So thinking about this a bit you could easily put the voltage divider and resonance cap on a switch, the pre-filter caps and choke obviously not so much. Heck the C45 switch is already swapping around the voltage divider on that gain stage on the stock BE100. Wonder how close it would be tonally.

Might have to find out

Yes indeed you can. The filter caps are so close they only make a small difference. As for the choke, I think the 3H sounds better on a BE anyhow.

One other difference is the voice switch. The BE switches between a 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, and a 500pf on the input of the tone stack. The JJ switches between the same 470uf cathode bypass on the first half of the cathode follower stage, but instead of the 500pf (this is totally removed), it engages the sat circuit.

Ok yep I see that in the schematics. The "voice" switch on the JJ being the JJ mode. I'll look in more detail later but I'm not seeing a lot of differences between the BE and the Slax channels 2 and 3 either aside from the switching for the additional gain / volume controls.

 

[Jon BCN]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

Genius level marketing really. Dave is selling 80-90% of the same amp over and over to the same customers

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

Is it really that way? How is it that for example the Butterslax head needed a bigger headshell?

I have a BE100 and I would love to have a switch to change the overall gain structure to something like the Butterslax 2/3 channels.

That would be the perfect amp.

 

[technomancer]

There are a few values different in the JJ BE circuit. BE has a 68k/68k voltage divider, JJ BE has 68k/100k between the first two stages. This give a fatter darker tone. The fixed depth of JJ has a .0022uf paralleled with the standard .0047uf that shifts the bass up into a tighter bass response, and the use of a different choke makes it more aggressive.

You could easily convert a BE to JJ BE with what I mentioned above.

EDIT: also the pre filter caps are 16uf on the JJ. BE had 22uf, and current BE has 47uf

I think most don't realize its the same circuit board plus or minus a few features and component values for the BE,JJ, SS, Phil X, and I suspect the Butterslax. Brilliant marketing to be honest. I know the SS uses an audio taper treble vs the standard lineartaper. If you made the fixed NFB switcheable between values, you could cop very similar tones by adjusting the controls. Not 100% , but you'd feel better than buying 2 different amps

Genius level marketing really. Dave is selling 80-90% of the same amp over and over to the same customers

Really for the most part, you could build a Friedman based amp with extra switches that would give you all the Friedman amps in one. Just have to flip the switches in the right combination.

Is it really that way? How is it that for example the Butterslax head needed a bigger headshell?

I have a BE100 and I would love to have a switch to change the overall gain structure to something like the Butterslax 2/3 channels.

That would be the perfect amp.

The BE100 is 29" x 8.625" and the Slax is 27.25" x 9" and I'm pretty sure they're both the same chassis so the only difference is the size of the plywood box. The BE, JJ, SS, and Slax all use the same circuit board for the amp, you can see it in gutshots various places. The Slax adds an additional board for the extra relays for the separate gain and volume controls for channels 2 and 3.

Dave did say at one point when I asked him that some of the elements of the JJ mode could be added to a BE and made switchable, but not all of them. I would imagine the pre-filter caps, voltage drop resistor on B+, and choke were what couldn't be switched now that I know more.