Best Diezel amp for me? [long-winded post alert!]

[Hamilton]

Hey everybody...I've been reading this forum for months put this is my first post. I know there are loads of threads like this one, so I'm sorry if you're sick of seeing threads like this. However, I also know that the people here tend to be Diezel maniacs and happy to share their opinions endlessly, so I don't feel TOO bad about it.

I've been wanting a Diezel for years upon years, and now I think I finally have that opportunity. Before I go any further, I really want to look into what I'm doing. I guess I'll describe my "style"...I play a rather abrasive and strange type of heavy music with a lot of dynamics and heavy electronic backing (no drummer, no bassist...just two pwoerful synths, some computers, and my guitars). Here's a link: www.myspace.com/genghistron

The stuff on there is very harsh (recorded with a 5150 II)...and while I want to be able to *reach* such moments of noise and abrasion, I also want to branch out a lot on our next recording, when we'll have a month in the studio and lots of time to obsess over tones (instead of just having two..."clean tone" and "dirty tone"!).

However, my love for the more "perfect" sounding metal guitar tones tends to stop with Meshuggah and Tool. Their tones are fabulous (Adam Jones is what got me interested in Diezel...he sounds better with every album)! But to clarify, I am *not* going for a $1,000,000 guitar sound ALL the time. I'd like to get that Tool sound at moments, but I want something very versatile with a lot of real character and break-up for the millions of areas in between "clean" and "dirty-as-hell"...any fans of recent CONVERGE or NEUROSIS recordings will know what I mean.

Which brings me to my next question...if I were to pick a Diezel amp, which do you think might be best for my needs? I've run a mess of foot-pedals and channel selectors my whole gigging life (running a Peavey 5150 and a Sunn Beta Lead simultaneously, and damn it's hard to press 2 pedals with two feet at the same time when I want to switch channels!), so the prospect of a MIDI pedal to do it all sounds really nice to me at this point. Which means Herbert vs. VH4.

So, Herbert vs. VH4...which is more versatile? I want to have something with quick attack for my fingertapping riffs, but also tight low-end, but also enough natural *character* (whatever that means!) to sound full of life...I don't want a Korn tone which is radio-ready and over-compressed. I get the impression a lot of Diezelers on here want to dial in a perfect Pantera or Disturbed tone...which is cool, but not for me. I really want an amp to do it all -- and while I'm not sure if such a thing REALLY exists, are the rumors I hear true that a Diezel will get me closer than anyone else???

Thanks so much to any and all who took the time + effort to read through my post! Cheers...

 

[scottph]

What do you mean by "Herbert vs. Diezel"? Do you mean Herbert vs. VH4?
In that case: Herbert.

 

[duesentrieb]

You need to check them out, all of them, including Einstein.

 

[Hamilton]

Yes! I wrote my post at 2 in the morning and was out of it. I mean Herbert vs. VH4.

I HAVE tried the Einstein, and it was really great. The clean channel...wow! I will mostly be using "dirtier" sounds, and for that the Einstein did sound really great.

However, after 4 or 5 years of gigging, I have to admit I am *very* attracted to the idea of MIDI-controlled amp. To be able to change multiple settings within the course of the song -- not to mention be able to push a button and change channels and toggle on/off the effects loop at the same time -- would really give me a lot of possibilities for our live shows that I don't have right now. For that reason, I think I'd like to get a Herbert or VH4...but Einstein's aren't out of the question.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to find a Herbert or VH4 to play in stores...only Einsteins around where I live. This only makes things more complicated, I know! It's going to be hard for me to sink thousands of dollars into an amp I haven't played, but simply having played the Einstein gives me great faith in the others as well....I can at LEAST say "I've played a Diezel -- even if it wasn't the Diezel I want -- and it sounds amazing." Better than some who only can judge from mp3 audio clips.

 

[Hamilton]

Come oooooooon, some more perspectives? ? ?

I actually found a store which carries the Herbert. It's 3 hours away, but I think I might drive there this weekend to check it out. I've been leaning towards the Herbie based on what I've read, but I know I won't *really* be able to tell until I play the amps myself. Wish there was a good way to A/B them.

There's a store in NYC with all Diezels in stock, but I'd have to take the train and wouldn't be able to bring my own guitar to try the amps on...

 

[Anonymous]

Hamilton,
I have bought a VH4 sight unseen, unplayed and then also bought a Herbert the same way. While I don't play your styles of music, I may be able to give you my thoughts on both amps so that you have another perspective.
VH4: This amp having four distinctly different channels, is versatile to say the least. It has a very clean channel, bluesy channel, a modded marshall-esque channel and a dark, ultra distortion channel. Channel four does have a tendency to some people to sound compressed a bit, but the amp can do so many different things well, that one cannot judge by Tool tones alone, the value of versatility the VH4 presents to the player. It puts out about 120 watts clean and has a global sub-bass, as do the three Diezel amps currently available, plus the ability to get power tube distortion at any volume while combining this with pre-amp distortion at the same time, if desired.

The Herbert has three channels, but has a mid-shift control that can be applied to any of the three channels and activated via footswitch. This gives you 6 different sounds. The Herbert has 180 watts clean with 6L6's which is the least clean wattage the amp produces and due to the tranny size, can put out crushing sub-bass when desired. I play more conservative styles of music, and have no trouble whatsoever using all three channels of the Herbert to get sounds that I crave in my playing range, which are no where nearly as brutal as the amp is capable of emitting, if desired.

The amp does not have the ability to get power tube distortion as it is designed differently from the VH4. However, the Herbert has 6 power tubes set up in pairs. Each pair can be of a different power tube type, IF desired, so that you can mix and match different power tubes for different sounds. For example, you may use 2 6L6's, 2 EL-34's, and 2 KT-66's, or any combination of any available guitar amp power tubes you desire to help shape your personal tones.
Both amps are versatile, so it will strictly become a matter of how you like to adjust and set up your sounds as to which amp you might prefer.

The VH4 has a very tight feel to it whereas the Herbert is a bit springier in feel. Both amps offer many options and extras, but no one can tell you which amp you will be happier playing through. That is where you must decide, and listening to each amp without playing each amp will not answer your question for you. After having both amps, I lean more in the Herbert's direction, but I do miss the ability to get the power tubes to distort as is capable from the VH4. However, aside from that, I like the Herbert better.

Everyone feels differently, based on their own playing style, so making a long trip to try out an amp can not only be fun, but will ultimately save you mental anguish over which amp you truly want. Even if you must take a train to N.Y.C. to play both amps, by using your personal guitar, you will get a far better idea of what you will be sounding like, even without all the foot toys. Don't get rid of all of your toys, however, as you may wind up using both a rack setup in conjunction with some of your foot toys to capture your ultimate sound.

 

[Hamilton]

Thanks for the very in-depth response...a very informative post!

If I've really learned anything, it's that I MUST go to whatever length required to try BOTH amps WITH my guitar. That's the only way I'll really know; you're absolutely right.

 

[eddiespaghetty]

O.K.,

hope I won't be missunderstood -

but seriously from my point of view -

if Peter Stapfer is the BOSS

and Olaf Krampe is the DOC

then C-4 (Stephen) is „the PROF!

and Peter Diezel is „THE MAN!“
(I think, he won’t feel comfartable as Chancellor – I think, but you never know!)

Thanks Stephen for your comments! How do we say in Germany – your postings have Hands and Feet!

 

[Hamilton]

Tried both out today and really gravitated toward the Herbert...I had an hour to try both amps and I ended up spending the first 20 minutes with the VH4 and the last 40 on the Herbert. 20 of those minutes didn't even find me twiddling any knobs...I was having too much fun playing!