Beware: '59 Burst Content

[JerryP]

If it's one thing I've learned it's that you NEVER know what someone will pay for stuff. I've been told plenty times I'll never sell something for what I'm asking. It might take a while, but teventually a buyer shows up. There could be some filthy rich CEO somewhere that got his first piece of ass listening to J. Geils and he HAS to have that for his "collection". There's a seat for every ass. There are so many non-players and investors in this game these days and many are uneducated about gear. It wasn't players that raised the price of old Les Pauls to what it is, it was Japanese investors and old guys with money. 99% of musicians are generally broke and struggling.
Jerry

 

[jlbaxe]

If it's one thing I've learned it's that you NEVER know what someone will pay for stuff. I've been told plenty times I'll never sell something for what I'm asking. It might take a while, but teventually a buyer shows up. There could be some filthy rich CEO somewhere that got his first piece of ass listening to J. Geils and he HAS to have that for his "collection". There's a seat for every ass. There are so many non-players and investors in this game these days and many are uneducated about gear. It wasn't players that raised the price of old Les Pauls to what it is, it was Japanese investors and old guys with money. 99% of musicians are generally broke and struggling.
Jerry

I've have listed things on evil bay for what I thought they would sell for and they just sit but if I jack the price up it sells. go figure.

 

[rupe]

I can think of one example where the celebrity factor added to the value of a burst (with a broken headstock) in a big way...the Peter Greene/Gary Moore guitar put $1M in Gary's pocket when he sold it.

rupe, no disrespect brother, but Gary Moore is my area of expertise and I was threatened with a lawsuit over what I know about the sale.
Gary got under $600K US for the guitar, he had to pay a 10% brokers fee as well.
Nobody got $1million dollars. A lot of the hype came from a certain guitar dealer who hyped up the sale but it was Melvyn Franks who was the only buyer of the guitar..
I am Atomic Playboy and I approve this message..

Interesting...it was fairly widespread that he sold it for $1M. Are you sure that he didn't net $600K? Why would he choose to broker a deal for $600K on one of the most coveted instruments on the planet instead of letting it go to auction? It makes little sense seeing what Blackie, Lenny, and Clapton's 335 had recently brought. Its essentially the equivalent of pawning it.

 

[rlord1974]

Auctions will often take 25% off the top of a sale price. So, if he had sold it for $1M at auction, he would have only netted $750k.

Also, going through an auction, the auction house would have reported the transaction to the IRS, meaning he would have had to pay tax on the capital gain he realized on the guitar. Given the guitar probably cost him less than $10k when he bought it, that would result in a capital gain of $750k - $10k = $740k! Take half of that off in tax, and he would have only been left with $370k!

I'd take $600k in a private sale all day. At least you can avoid reporting the capital gain on your income tax return.....

 

[rupe]

Auctions will often take 25% off the top of a sale price. So, if he had sold it for $1M at auction, he would have only netted $750k.

Also, going through an auction, the auction house would have reported the transaction to the IRS, meaning he would have had to pay tax on the capital gain he realized on the guitar. Given the guitar probably cost him less than $10k when he bought it, that would result in a capital gain of $750k - $10k = $740k! Take half of that off in tax, and he would have only been left with $370k!

I'd take $600k in a private sale all day. At least you can avoid reporting the capital gain on your income tax return.....

Except you simply can't sell something for that amount and avoid capital gains taxes...even in a private sale. When that sum of money changes hands, people (IRS) notice. You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

 

[rlord1974]

You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

THAT was funny!

 

[Badronald]

Les Paul idiots don't care about headstocks cracked, but the refin and hardware will be an issue. Probably get $175

No disrespect but you are incorrect, repaired neck guitars are a huge issue, In this market you can buy a plain top, worn but all original and not broken starter Burst for $120-130K.

Beautiful flamey no issue Bursts are $300-$400K.

A refin is another huge no no, changed parts can be fixed. No way in hell he gets anywhere near $175K. That guitar is worth maybe $90-$100K.

Brad

Attach a famous musician and hit songs to a guitar and it's worth much more than your closet queen.

Maybe for some new high end guitar but not typically for Les Paul Sunburst guitars from 1958-1960. They have their own following based on what they are regardless of who played them. Certain exceptions apply like Claptons guitar or Gibbons "Pearly Gates" but in general a burst played by a run of the mill pop/rock star will have no more value than one from the barn in Nebraska.

J Geils run of the mill pop star? Oh that's rich.
Don't know how old you are but I remember a day when J Geils OWNED the airwaves and was a HUGE concert draw. Do some research brother.

My man Ronald, not trying to be a dick but I think I am pretty qualified to speak on the 1958-1960 Gibson Les Paul Sunburst values. For the record Im 41 and I am well aware of J Giles and I live in New England (Jay is from Mass), I know who he is and what he did. He is no Eric Clapton as far as star power enhancing a Bursts value, it certainly happens but thats some pretty thin air up in that company with the likes of Eric, Duane, Billy, Peter and Mike, not J Giles my man.

Not to get into a pissing match but I have owned and sold one half dozen real Les Paul "Bursts" in my lifetime and dozens of 1950's Les Paul Goldtops and Customs including selling Kirk Hammett his 1958 Les Paul Goldtop and Dean DeLeo from STP his 1956 Les Paul Goldtop. I also sold Danny Gattons 1955 Les Paul Custom to Eric Johnson so lets just say I have done my research on these guitars and I know what they sell for and conversely I have a very educated opinion as to value.

I like J Giles and his music but that guitar aint worth anywhere near $250k thats all I am saying.

Oh, I agree. But I don't think ANY guitar is worth that kind of money. And I never said I knew anything about the values of Burst Les Pauls. But what I do know is that I see people with more money than sense buy brand new $30K drums sets and brand new $25K guitars from my local Guitar Center. They had a brand new $100K Martin in there. It was gone. I forgot to ask if they sold it. Probably did. Crazy stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a guitar like this sell six figures. Broken or not. Refin or not.

 

[rupe]

You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

THAT was funny!

Try and get away with a private sale of that magnitude without reporting the capital gains and let me know how funny it is when the taxman shows up...we aren't talking about flipping a guitar/amp for a few hundred (or even a few thousand) dollars profit.

 

[ptgold]

You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

THAT was funny!

Try and get away with a private sale of that magnitude without reporting the capital gains and let me know how funny it is when the taxman shows up...we aren't talking about flipping a guitar/amp for a few hundred (or even a few thousand) dollars profit.

Correct me if im wrong but how would have Gary Moore been legally obligated to pay the IRS? Did he have US citizenship? Does the IRS have jurisdiction over another country's citizens profits just because the item was sold to someone inside the US?

This cant be right no?

 

[Anonymous]

Auctions will often take 25% off the top of a sale price. So, if he had sold it for $1M at auction, he would have only netted $750k.

Also, going through an auction, the auction house would have reported the transaction to the IRS, meaning he would have had to pay tax on the capital gain he realized on the guitar. Given the guitar probably cost him less than $10k when he bought it, that would result in a capital gain of $750k - $10k = $740k! Take half of that off in tax, and he would have only been left with $370k!

I'd take $600k in a private sale all day. At least you can avoid reporting the capital gain on your income tax return.....

Since when are capital gains taxes 50%?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

THAT was funny!

Unless he got cash and kept it under his mattress, no deal of that magnitude is going to escape US taxes had he been a US citizen. Who knows where Gary Moore was a citizen and what he could get away with there though?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

You are still legally obligated to report gains no matter the method of sale.

THAT was funny!

Try and get away with a private sale of that magnitude without reporting the capital gains and let me know how funny it is when the taxman shows up...we aren't talking about flipping a guitar/amp for a few hundred (or even a few thousand) dollars profit.

Yup. Like I said, unless he kept the cash in a vault in his house, any US bank would report the transaction, although I have no idea how it works with citizens of other countries...

Steve

 

[rlord1974]

Auctions will often take 25% off the top of a sale price. So, if he had sold it for $1M at auction, he would have only netted $750k.

Also, going through an auction, the auction house would have reported the transaction to the IRS, meaning he would have had to pay tax on the capital gain he realized on the guitar. Given the guitar probably cost him less than $10k when he bought it, that would result in a capital gain of $750k - $10k = $740k! Take half of that off in tax, and he would have only been left with $370k!

I'd take $600k in a private sale all day. At least you can avoid reporting the capital gain on your income tax return.....

Since when are capital gains taxes 50%?

Steve

Agreed.

Where I am, only 50% of any capital gain is taxable. In the highest tax bracket, you're looking at a 50% tax rate. All in, that's effectively tax at 25% of the actual capital gain. So, in the above example, the $740k capital gain would translate to a $370 taxable capital gain. Shave off 50% tax on $370 in taxable gains and you are left with $1M less $250k in auction fees less tax of $185k = net cash proceeds on sale of $565k. You would still make out $35k better doing the $600k private sale, and wouldn't have any risk of the auction selling price being less than the $1M.

But, at the end of the day, this is ALL hypothetical, isn't it?