Bogner amp advice needed

[Old School Steve]

I would appreciate input from Bogner owners to inform my next/final amp purchase.

Over the past 30 years, I've collected multiple purpose-specific guitar and amps, however, I found myself not playing them all as I tend to reach for my favorites. As a result, I've been downsizing my collection to keep just a couple of guitars and and I'm hoping to get down to one versatile low/mid/high gain amp for blues, classic rock, and higher gain rock (not heavy metal). I prefer boutique amps with unique sounds that feel special when played -- and for whatever reason, I have a strange fascination with Bogner amps (design, tone, backstory, etc.)

WHAT I WANT
I'm looking for a low wattage head and 2x12 cabinet, or combo amp for home use. Ideally, something 30w or less -- but a 50w with a half power feature would work.

I use only 2 pedals and no software -- I'm an old school "plug in and play" guy.

I don't play a lot of pure clean tones, so my "forever amp" does not need to have the shimmering/glassy tones of a Duende or Goldfinger. Instead, the amp needs to focus on rich, warm, expansive voicing/tones across the gain spectrum. Because of this, I don't need a pure clean channel on a 2-channel amp (they can be different voiced gain channels).

Mentally, I categorize my desired gain range as follows:
* Low gain: Hendrix/Trower plexi
* Med gain: ZZ Top, Slash (e.g Magnatone)
* High gain: George Lynch, Creed etc. (high gain, but not saturated)

WHAT I PLAY
I've been playing Mesa Boogie Rectifier series amps since they were introduced 30 years ago as I have really loved that scooped mid-range sound and sonic clarity and higher gain. I've also owned a few Marshalls, including an old JMP50 from the 1970's. I owned multiple Bogner amps, including a Shiva 80w (1x12 combo) that I bought new in the 2000s and it's now my son's favorite amp for versatile tones (he plays blues, country, pop, and moderate gain rock).

I just sold my Bogner Panama this week, so now I'm just down to a Mesa Boogie Recto-verb 50 combo for high gain (the clean channel isn't great, but works OK as a pedal platform), and a Marshall JTM1 Offset for low volume plexi tones and my Fulltone Deja-Vibe 2 for the Trower-style rotating speaker sound.

For guitars, my primary electric options are a Gibson Les Paul R9 and PRS Custom 24 (35th anniversary) with 85/15 coil tap pickups.

MY INITIAL THOUGHTS
After months of research, I keep coming back to the Telos and Helios 50 watt (I am curious whether the Telos can produce the rich high gain tones).

I've tried to get excited about Friedman amps, but there's something missing in the sound to my ears (no offense to Friedman owners). I've seen Doug Rappoport demo the Landry amps (amazing high gain tone) but I fear it won't deliver on the Bogner tonal spectrum that I'm used to hearing and has become my reference point. I know Suhr makes some interesting stuff, but I have no experience with them. I'm a low-tech guy, so the Bad Cat Ocelot (or similar) that requires software/apps, etc. is not attractive -- but the flexibility and cab simulation is intriguing (including the headphone jack).

I'd say I'm 90% set on buying another Bogner, but I wouldn't entirely rule out another boutique brand.

I know this is a lot of information, but I'd like to focus the Comments to relevant options for me to think about.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[rsm]

IDK about low-wattage or combos from Bogner.


For Bogner, I have a Helios Eclipse 100 which I think is a great amp for modded Marshall tones.

Other than Marshall, my other modded Marshall is an Engl Artist Edition 100 E651 I use it for mid to late '70s hard rock tones, though it can do much more into '80s thrash and hair metal tones.

 

[Jdub]

I have had almost every amp Bogner has released. Atma,Helios, JB45, or XTC 3534 fit the bill. ( on the XTC I would get the latest iteration of the 50 watter even though it exceeds your wattage needs.. as does the JB but the MV is outstanding on those amps.

 

[acidvoodoo]

3534? Really nice amp that covers a lot of ground, blue channel is great. I had a Telos, it was cool but I’m more of a hard rock metal guy, so I let it go. I just got a Friedman little sister and it’s the most enjoyable amp I’ve had in a while. It just sounds fantastic, does the rolled down volume very well. I feel like I could play anything with it.

 

[Old School Steve]

I have had almost every amp Bogner has released. Atma,Helios, JB45, or XTC 3534 fit the bill. ( on the XTC I would get the latest iteration of the 50 watter even though it exceeds your wattage needs.. as does the JB but the MV is outstanding on those amps.

A lot of the posts across forums seem to agree that that 3534 in the 50w version has better sound and a less noisy FX loop than the 35w version. I'll have to dive back into YouTube to watch more videos.

 

[Old School Steve]

IDK about low-wattage or combos from Bogner.


For Bogner, I have a Helios Eclipse 100 which I think is a great amp for modded Marshall tones.

Other than Marshall, my other modded Marshall is an Engl Artist Edition 100 E651 I use it for mid to late '70s hard rock tones, though it can do much more into '80s thrash and hair metal tones.

Aside from the XTC mini, the Atma (or Telos in 20w setting) are the only currrent model "low wattage" Bogner amps. The International series (2011/2012) are very limited in their tone/features (which is why I just sold my Bogner Panama). For this reason, I've already accepted the fact that I'd play a 30w, 40w or 50w head at low volume -- which is why it's important that the killer tone is available at low volume.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

What is your budget?

 

[Old School Steve]

What is your budget?

Ideally, something that probably lists new in the $2500 - $3400 range and can be picked up in nice (well cared for) pre-owned condition in the $2K-$2400 range. Under $2K would be a huge win, but I'm not counting on it.

It also depends on whether I keep or sell my Marshall JTM1 (selling it frees up more cash).

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Well if I can offer any info here, it's that you can't go wrong with a 50w Ecstasy (which you probably knew) or the 50w Helios, and based on what you've talked about, I think one of those could be a great fit. Throw either one of those on a cab and put a boost or two in front of it and maybe an EQ in the loop, and they'll both will give you pretty much anything you'd need and sound great doing it.

I have an Ecstasy 101B and Ecstasy 20th Anny head, as well as a Helios 100. I'll say the biggest difference between the Ecstasy and the Helios is that the Ecstasy tends to live in a wider EQ band overall than the Helios, and the Ecstasy is also sort of most emphasized in the low mids, where the Helios most emphasizes the upper mids part of the spectrum.

I'll also say that while there are plenty of shades available in the Helios, I think the Ecstasy is the more versatile amp of the two if that matters to you, especially if you want/need multiple footswitchable sounds.

 

[Sixstringflannel]

JTM switch on the back of the Helios 100 drops it down to 30w (I think?). Based on your initial post my first thought was a 3534 Ecstasy or maybe the JB45. If you can dip into attenuator land that might remove the wattage criteria and open up some more options deal wise. I’ve only owned the Helios from Bogner and very much want to add another from his line. Lots of knowledgeable folks here though and the recs so far would get you set up well.

 

[Old School Steve]

JTM switch on the back of the Helios 100 drops it down to 30w (I think?). Based on your initial post my first thought was a 3534 Ecstasy or maybe the JB45. If you can dip into attenuator land that might remove the wattage criteria and open up some more options deal wise. I’ve only owned the Helios from Bogner and very much want to add another from his line. Lots of knowledgeable folks here though and the recs so far would get you set up well.

The JB45 sounds a little too vintage for my ears.

Yeah, the 100w drops to 30w.

After watching hours of additional YouTube video, the Ecstasy 3435 (50w) and Helios 50w seem like good contenders. I guess the biggest difference is the flexibility of the Ecstasy (3 channels). For the sake of argument, assume I only used the clean (green) channel 10% of the time -- which gain sections do you think are most versatile and big/woody/flowing sounding between the Ecstasy and Helios? (not modern/scooped)

 

[Old School Steve]

Well if I can offer any info here, it's that you can't go wrong with a 50w Ecstasy (which you probably knew) or the 50w Helios, and based on what you've talked about, I think one of those could be a great fit. Throw either one of those on a cab and put a boost or two in front of it and maybe an EQ in the loop, and they'll both will give you pretty much anything you'd need and sound great doing it.

I have an Ecstasy 101B and Ecstasy 20th Anny head, as well as a Helios 100. I'll say the biggest difference between the Ecstasy and the Helios is that the Ecstasy tends to live in a wider EQ band overall than the Helios, and the Ecstasy is also sort of most emphasized in the low mids, where the Helios most emphasizes the upper mids part of the spectrum.

I'll also say that while there are plenty of shades available in the Helios, I think the Ecstasy is the more versatile amp of the two if that matters to you, especially if you want/need multiple footswitchable sounds.

Wow - this is probably the most accurate description of the 2 amps that I've read (thanks for this thoughtful write up).

I'm stuck because my head says the Ecstasy is better value for the money (3 channels, wider sonic range, etc.) but my heart is leaning slightly toward the rawness of the Helios - however, I don't want to regret losing the versatility of the Ecstasy should I decide later that I value the clean channel and channel switching. The YouTube demo by Michael Nielsen shows off some great tones of the Ecstasy and his comparison of the 50w to 35w version illustrates the softer/fuller (less modern/compressed) tones of the 50w -- and this is precisely the tone I'm after:

()

The Telos demo by RezaMetix is what blew me away last week and put the Telos on my radar, except they are impossible to find:


()

Quick question about a cabinet. I sold my 4x12's to save space (although I do miss the sonic breadth & air pressure) so I've got a Bogner Goldfinger 2x12 (G12H 70th anniversary speakers) that I picked up on REVERB years ago. It's great for clean tones (my son wants it as a cabinet for the Shiva I gave him), so I assume it's not a good fit with the Helios or Ecstasy. Do you recommend greenbacks? What wattage? (30w, 25w, other?)

Ugh ... difficult decision.

 

[Old School Steve]

I have had almost every amp Bogner has released. Atma,Helios, JB45, or XTC 3534 fit the bill. ( on the XTC I would get the latest iteration of the 50 watter even though it exceeds your wattage needs.. as does the JB but the MV is outstanding on those amps.

Agreed regarding the wide range of tones and softer/fuller sound than the 35w version.

 

[Sixstringflannel]

The JB45 sounds a little too vintage for my ears.

Yeah, the 100w drops to 30w.

After watching hours of additional YouTube video, the Ecstasy 3435 (50w) and Helios 50w seem like good contenders. I guess the biggest difference is the flexibility of the Ecstasy (3 channels). For the sake of argument, assume I only used the clean (green) channel 10% of the time -- which gain sections do you think are most versatile and big/woody/flowing sounding between the Ecstasy and Helios? (not modern/scooped)

Hard for me to definitively say since I haven't owned an Ecstasy. The Helios is versatile enough for my needs. I can get Americana / Southern Rock or bluesy stuff on the Plexi side, and dial in Zakk Wylde No Rest For The Wicked to AiC, Tool, A Perfect Circle on the Hot side. Using the FX loop as a boost and some 12AX7B’s in the preamp w/ the EQ switch off I can get into close enough Snorkler territory. I’m not a big channel switcher but the clean stuff is fine or it’s just another slightly dirty flavor to throw a boost on and get something else out of it. The Ecstasy plexi modes sound close enough to the Helios, but yeah there is a little more rawness in the Helios that I hear in the amount of demo’s I’ve listened to as well as others echoing that sentiment. With the Helios you have Options, and with the Ecstasy you have Options +. It’s a tough call brother as you’ve got some great choices here!

 

[Old School Steve]

I have had almost every amp Bogner has released. Atma,Helios, JB45, or XTC 3534 fit the bill. ( on the XTC I would get the latest iteration of the 50 watter even though it exceeds your wattage needs.. as does the JB but the MV is outstanding on those amps.

I didn't like the Atma and the JB45 is a bit too vintage for my liking. That leaves Ecstasy 3435 (50w version) vs. Helios 50w.

What do you like/dislike that puts one of these amps "over the top" as the best option?

 

[Jccobb2]

Goldfinger Superlead. Best clean channel in a bogner, low to mid gain Marshall tones with some upper mid punch, and an option to use diode clipping to get all the 80s tones you could want. Add in a great loop, configurable boost for each channel, and a half power switch.

 

[Geo]

https://evhgear.com/gear/amplifiers/combo/5150iii-50w-6l6-2x12-combo/2254010010

 

[Old School Steve]

Goldfinger Superlead. Best clean channel in a bogner, low to mid gain Marshall tones with some upper mid punch, and an option to use diode clipping to get all the 80s tones you could want. Add in a great loop, configurable boost for each channel, and a half power switch.

I hadn't remembered the GF SL (the GF 54 is too clean/jazzy for my playing tastes). Since I already have the Goldfinger 2x12 semi open back cabinet, it could be a super cool match. I just watched a few YouTube videos and the amp sounds super. Probably not quite as raw as the Helios or polished as the Ecstasy 3534 (50w).

I don't play a lot of clean tone stuff, so I'm wondering if I'd ever use the GF SL clean channel much (unless it was a pedal platform channel). I've got to narrow the field somehow between the three options: 3534, GF SL, Helios.