Bogner Helios or Friedman BE/JJ?

[jlb32]

Just GASSING but if you had to choose between these 2 which you would prefer?

I love Friedman amps but there is just something about the Bogner Helios that keeps me wanting one.

 

[sixty-niner]

I love my JJ, I have not played the helios since no one has one at a store and I live in LA,(sad) but I would take the JJ any day based on the tone and versatility. I have an issue with the fact that there is no foot switch and no way to switch between the plexi and hot modes. its just not practical for my band situation. I still want one though, I vote get both!!!! thats my plan!!! but for me JJ wins for those reasons.

 

[RockyStar]

Butterslax

 

[jlb32]

I love my JJ, I have not played the helios since no one has one at a store and I live in LA,(sad) but I would take the JJ any day based on the tone and versatility. I have an issue with the fact that there is no foot switch and no way to switch between the plexi and hot modes. its just not practical for my band situation. I still want one though, I vote get both!!!! thats my plan!!! but for me JJ wins for those reasons.

Thanks! I wish I could get both. The Helios really has me GASSING even though the issues you stated are a concern. Not sure why Bogner made a $3000 amp that is not footswitchable between modes but I still want one.

Kind of silly since I have never got to play one either. The JJ is definitely on my hard list also.

The Butterslax seems really cool but I'm not really digging that almost $4K pricetag Friedman decided to slap on it.

 

[tonedog]

Had both and still have the Helios. That said the JJ is a great amp too, I just liked the rawness and overall tone a little more from the Bog. I have a custom made high gainer that sounds a little better for the higher gain stuff so I parted with the JJ but the Helios has some tones that are total perfection for me.

 

[krueger]

I have a Helios 50 and a Friedman X amp. Both are great amps and IMO the best of the best for the Marshall tone I have in my head. I prefer the Helios 50 over the Helios 100.

 

[dfrattaroli]

be

 

[jlb32]

Thanks guys. Tough decision since they all are great amps.

Anyone know the major tonal differences between the Helios 50 and Helios 100?

 

[RedPlated]

I had the BE and Helios at the same time. Kept the BE. Helios IS a great amp, but BE gets the edge.

The BE can do what the Helios can and way more, IMO. It's just more versatile. The two inputs on the Helios are a pain in the ass if you want to switch from clean to high gain. You have one choice, high or low input, so one will affect the other when switching channels unless you change the input manually.

The Helios is a little more raw Marshall, which I liked. However, the new 2016 BE updates make it more raw and takes care of that. I had a high/ low voltage switch added to my BE, which makes it even more raw.

The BE has more options. BE/HBE, SAT, FAT, c45, voice switch, gain structure. A better clean channel IMO. And for me my favorite thing about the BE, and Friedman amps in general, is the support from Dave. It's really easy to get ahold of him and I've had him make tweaks to my amp at least 4-5 times to make it sound how I want it. I literally walk in his shop, tell him what I want and he always says, "Sure, no problem." I've had him update the caps, change the clean channel to the SS100 circuit, add a gain structure switch, voltage switch, change to the newer TAD tubes, all kinds of stuff.

The BE is my #1 amp and I have many. It's at Dave's right now and I'm having separation anxiety until I get it back. Fantastic piece of gear.

 

[HilltopExplosion]

If it's not just the JJ tone you are after, you can pick up a used BE, and have the JBE mod done. Just a switch and you have 2 amps in 1.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

If you're an old-school Marshall guy [get a Marshall] the Bogner is a pallete of old/new/modded Marshall tones. It has a huge number of tonal options for a turret board build. The only thing you hear folks mentioning is the inability to switch between hot and plexi inputs. That is not something I've ever found I needed to do. You're either that guy or the other, not both.
I run a Friedman and a Helios. When I want the flexibility of a glassy clean and polished drive, the Friedman wins. I never use pedals with the drive channels as it is saturated enough not to need it. When I want to pick up the best old Marshall and muck around with 'mods' or add pedals to an older voicing, the Helios wins out. It sounds like an old amp.
Btw, the Helios 50 and 100 are totally different IMO. Helios 50 was the sweeter option.

 

[braintheory]

If you're an old-school Marshall guy [get a Marshall] the Bogner is a pallete of old/new/modded Marshall tones. It has a huge number of tonal options for a turret board build. The only thing you hear folks mentioning is the inability to switch between hot and plexi inputs. That is not something I've ever found I needed to do. You're either that guy or the other, not both.
I run a Friedman and a Helios. When I want the flexibility of a glassy clean and polished drive, the Friedman wins. I never use pedals with the drive channels as it is saturated enough not to need it. When I want to pick up the best old Marshall and muck around with 'mods' or add pedals to an older voicing, the Helios wins out. It sounds like an old amp.
Btw, the Helios 50 and 100 are totally different IMO. Helios 50 was the sweeter option.

What did you like better about the 50 watt version?

 

[jlb32]

If you're an old-school Marshall guy [get a Marshall] the Bogner is a pallete of old/new/modded Marshall tones. It has a huge number of tonal options for a turret board build. The only thing you hear folks mentioning is the inability to switch between hot and plexi inputs. That is not something I've ever found I needed to do. You're either that guy or the other, not both.
I run a Friedman and a Helios. When I want the flexibility of a glassy clean and polished drive, the Friedman wins. I never use pedals with the drive channels as it is saturated enough not to need it. When I want to pick up the best old Marshall and muck around with 'mods' or add pedals to an older voicing, the Helios wins out. It sounds like an old amp.
Btw, the Helios 50 and 100 are totally different IMO. Helios 50 was the sweeter option.

What did you like better about the 50 watt version?

+1. I've always heard the Helios 100 is tighter and has a much bigger bottom end than the Helios 50. The Helios 100 also has the 30 watt option.

 

[Ventura]

If you're an old-school Marshall guy [get a Marshall] the Bogner is a pallete of old/new/modded Marshall tones. It has a huge number of tonal options for a turret board build. The only thing you hear folks mentioning is the inability to switch between hot and plexi inputs. That is not something I've ever found I needed to do. You're either that guy or the other, not both.
I run a Friedman and a Helios. When I want the flexibility of a glassy clean and polished drive, the Friedman wins. I never use pedals with the drive channels as it is saturated enough not to need it. When I want to pick up the best old Marshall and muck around with 'mods' or add pedals to an older voicing, the Helios wins out. It sounds like an old amp.
Btw, the Helios 50 and 100 are totally different IMO. Helios 50 was the sweeter option.

What did you like better about the 50 watt version?

+1. I've always heard the Helios 100 is tighter and has a much bigger bottom end than the Helios 50. The Helios 100 also has the 30 watt option.

Bigger iron will do this.

My bet goes to the JJ, even though I'm a Bogner fanboi.

And I like the post above... "If you're an old school Marshall kinda guy [get a Marshall]..." - wiser words have not been spoken

2 cents, YMMV.
Peace

 

[Deleted member 13074]

What did you like better about the 50 watt version?

Words won't do the difference justice, but I'll give it a go.
The amps were so different, I'd not guess they were siblings on a blind test.
The 50 was spongy compared to a harder bark from the 100. They seem to be voiced differently, with more of a concentration on mids in the 50, more highs and lows, less mids in the 100. The 100 breaks up in a rasp, the 50 more smoothly. I was in a demo room, so more volume might have changed my mind. The Bottom control on the rear of both a amps adds the lows a vintage amp won't have. Also a Punch switch for more attack.
The control of the mids is what makes the Helios badass. Want more mids - turn up the Mid control. Yet more - change to 70s Mode. But, I want even more - switch from EQ to 11, which removes the EQ completely and is much more than cranking each control. It's deceptive how much you can play with the core voice this way.
I've always used 100 watters, but this 50 was an easy buy.
Btw, in place of the 30W switch of the 100, is a far cooler Variac switch on the 50.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

And I like the post above... "If you're an old school Marshall kinda guy [get a Marshall]..." - wiser words have not been spoken

 

[Chester Nimitz]

Friedman modded JMP .... srsly tho any of these amps are top notch.

JMP's can be had for $900 to $1400 then about another $900 for mods.

Last i heard as of a month ago Dave wasn't taking any mods until he cleared out his backlog.

I have my eye on a 69 Super Trem id like him to do his majic.

 

[psychodave]

If you like them both, choose the amp with better value. Bogner is $3,099 and the Friedman is $3,699. $600 difference. That's a lot. Your best bet is to buy used.

 

[Ventura]

If you like them both, choose the amp with better value. Bogner is $3,099 and the Friedman is $3,699. $600 difference. That's a lot. Your best bet is to buy used.

+1