Bogner Helios

[Moshaholic]

I thought is was a killer amp but I my preferred my MCII. Doesn't mean another would. Outstanding build as you know. My only gripe is the $49.00 dealer special Classic Tone transformers. They could have done better in that department. The OT legs were thin and the transformer easily bends over. No chassis mounts or even washers to add stability to them.I received it bent over. Easily straightened it by only pushing on it. When I shipped it I packed tightly around it and it still bent to my buyer. Top notch build with shit transformers. Not saying all Classic Tones are bad. They sound pretty good. The ones Bogner had custom built for them for this amp With better iron this amp would probably still be with me. Why build such a nice amp and give it a weak heart. Guess they had to cut cost somewhere. Their marketing on the amp was just this. Offer a modded Marshall to market at a grand less than the competition and don't spend on marketing. I think Bogner might be rethinking this as they were hard to build and they are not sure they are making profit on them. At least a few ago they weren't sure. I'm sure they know by now. Curious to see the revision.

Are you saying the Helios has $49.00 transformers?

 

[se7en]

I thought is was a killer amp but I my preferred my MCII. Doesn't mean another would. Outstanding build as you know. My only gripe is the $49.00 dealer special Classic Tone transformers. They could have done better in that department. The OT legs were thin and the transformer easily bends over. No chassis mounts or even washers to add stability to them.I received it bent over. Easily straightened it by only pushing on it. When I shipped it I packed tightly around it and it still bent to my buyer. Top notch build with shit transformers. Not saying all Classic Tones are bad. They sound pretty good. The ones Bogner had custom built for them for this amp With better iron this amp would probably still be with me. Why build such a nice amp and give it a weak heart. Guess they had to cut cost somewhere. Their marketing on the amp was just this. Offer a modded Marshall to market at a grand less than the competition and don't spend on marketing. I think Bogner might be rethinking this as they were hard to build and they are not sure they are making profit on them. At least a few ago they weren't sure. I'm sure they know by now. Curious to see the revision.

Are you saying the Helios has $49.00 transformers?

 

[Racerxrated]

Both amps I had where I replaced Transformers were used so who knows how they were run previously, but when I had them the PTs blew on me. One bought here on RT and the seller paid for the cost of the replacement Classictone. It was 89$, I don't know where you get them for $49? Anyway the amp sounded better than before to me. Same thing with that 800 that had a MM that blew..Classictone made the amp better IMO. Sometimes cheaper IS better..of course I don't know how long they last, but the tone improved to me.

 

[glip22]

Both amps I had where I replaced Transformers were used so who knows how they were run previously, but when I had them the PTs blew on me. One bought here on RT and the seller paid for the cost of the replacement Classictone. It was 89$, I don't know where you get them for $49? Anyway the amp sounded better than before to me. Same thing with that 800 that had a MM that blew..Classictone made the amp better IMO. Sometimes cheaper IS better..of course I don't know how long they last, but the tone improved to me.

$89.00 to the public. Bogner cost for large bulk is probaly about $55.00 - $65.00 per piece. I have heard these as well and they did sound pretty good. Classic Tone has a custom shop for builders. I am not sure how much goes into testing per builder. I know Mercury will send several samples out to a builder based on what they are hearing and want and tweak from there. My comment only had to do with the Helios we owned Transformers were cheap. Period. It had louder than it should have mechanical buzz. No? The build was a sight to see. Why use crap trannies.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I have a classic tone in an 800 build where the original transformer bit the dust.. I found there was a bit of a break in period if that makes any sense (to my ear it does) but now it's crunchy, tight, but has ample meat. I think the circuit in the amp would be more responsible for producing less than memorable tones than the transformer wouldn't it? I find a lot of A/B transformer tests are usually not night and day. Among the higher end contenders, there is less difference than I'd expect. I guess the only way to really know whether they cheaped out is to put them side by side in that amp against Mercury. Maybe Bogner heard something he liked at a great price point and realized it saved him cash while still being able to charge epic prices!

 

[Racerxrated]

Both amps I had where I replaced Transformers were used so who knows how they were run previously, but when I had them the PTs blew on me. One bought here on RT and the seller paid for the cost of the replacement Classictone. It was 89$, I don't know where you get them for $49? Anyway the amp sounded better than before to me. Same thing with that 800 that had a MM that blew..Classictone made the amp better IMO. Sometimes cheaper IS better..of course I don't know how long they last, but the tone improved to me.

$89.00 to the public. Bogner cost for large bulk is probaly about $55.00 - $65.00 per piece. I have heard these as well and they did sound pretty good. Classic Tone has a custom shop for builders. I am not sure how much goes into testing per builder. I know Mercury will send several samples out to a builder based on what they are hearing and want and tweak from there. My comment only had to do with the Helios we owned Transformers were cheap. Period. It had louder than it should have mechanical buzz. No? The build was a sight to see. Why use crap trannies.

Gotcha. From what I remember the Heyboer had the nicest mids going in that test between Trannies but the classic tone was right behind it, Mercury didn't sound as good. They used the same amp each time supposedly...

 

[itsme]

Year in the life of Rig-Talk.

New amp announced. Lot's of talk.

Pro players make clips. MORE TALK.

Regular Joe schmo's get amp.....sounds like their last amp. Less Talk.

Amp hits classifieds for 1k less than original price. No talk, as another new amp is out.

HAHA. This is hilarious. And very true...

 

[chadprsman]

the PRS Archon has a classic tone also.

 

[232cap]

So does the BE100

 

[glip22]

Magnetic Corp needs to raise their prices. Ironic all the builders use them. I guess it's solely because they sound great and cost has nothing to do with it.

 

[Killcrop]

Reinhold has been making amps for a very long time. I think it's safe to say he has a pretty good idea what he is doing. I'm certain much testing and thought went into the Transformer selection. So when I read online that someone says the transformers are shit, I take for what it's worth...internet drivel.

Perhaps though, the comments about the weak metal used for the base of the transformers has some validity. I have had amps with the same issue and some that didn't. I still don't see how that has anything to do with the tone or the quality of the transformer itself.

 

[Anonymous]

Reinhold is known for using audiophile parts in some of his amplifiers
I doubt he would compromise a build by using cheaper parts
If the right transformer for the build had been 100$ more, I'm sure he wouldn't have had a problem raising the amp's price by 100$ to make up for it
If he had wanted to cut costs, he could have made that amp using a PCB
His customers don't mind paying 4K$+ for a 20th XTC with PCB, I don't think they would minded a 2400$ PCB Helios

 

[braintheory]

I thought is was a killer amp but I my preferred my MCII. Doesn't mean another would.

What made you prefer the MCII? Where the two amps similar sounding?

 

[lespaul6]

Magnetic Corp needs to raise their prices. Ironic all the builders use them. I guess it's solely because they sound great and cost has nothing to do with it.

+1 the most expensive part in an amp is the transformer, next is the speaker...cutting in these areas is common where profit margin is a concern.

 

[glip22]

Reinhold has been making amps for a very long time. I think it's safe to say he has a pretty good idea what he is doing. I'm certain much testing and thought went into the Transformer selection. So when I read online that someone says the transformers are shit, I take for what it's worth...internet drivel.

Perhaps though, the comments about the weak metal used for the base of the transformers has some validity. I have had amps with the same issue and some that didn't. I still don't see how that has anything to do with the tone or the quality of the transformer itself.

Disagree. Put the Helios next to a Wizard MC and tell me you can't hear a difference because of the iron. Same with an old Plexi or PTP Superlead. Makes a big difference you won't hear until you a/b the amps together. I have had amps I thought were excellent. When I a/b'd them with another particular amp my thought changed. The iron makes a huge difference and you can't say otherwise.

 

[braintheory]

Disagree. Put the Helios next to a Wizard MC and tell me you can't hear a difference because of the iron. Same with an old Plexi or PTP Superlead. Makes a big difference you won't hear until you a/b the amps together. I have had amps I thought were excellent. When I a/b'd them with another particular amp my thought changed. The iron makes a huge difference and you can't say otherwise.

I've had similar experiences when A/Bing my Wizard MC with other amps I thought were amazing. I'm not sure whether it's the transformers or not but the Wizard is hands down the best Marshally amp I've played. I'm still though very curious about the Helios and the Reeves Super 78.

 

[glip22]

Disagree. Put the Helios next to a Wizard MC and tell me you can't hear a difference because of the iron. Same with an old Plexi or PTP Superlead. Makes a big difference you won't hear until you a/b the amps together. I have had amps I thought were excellent. When I a/b'd them with another particular amp my thought changed. The iron makes a huge difference and you can't say otherwise.

I've had similar experiences when A/Bing my Wizard MC with other amps I thought were amazing. I'm not sure whether it's the transformers or not but the Wizard is hands down the best Marshally amp I've played. I'm still though very curious about the Helios and the Reeves Super 78.

The Helios was a kick ass handwired Marshall DSL but better. Has the same mids and brighter cutting tone. This is based on the new DSL 100H I recently owned. The Helios was also stiff. An old plexi is stiff but not this stiff. I spent some time with one.I plugged in the MC and went back and forth several times. I could feel the strings much more on the MCII. The Helios had a nice low end. Not as round and big as the MCII though regardless of the softer feel of the Wizard which is not a soft amp to begin with. The bright caps across the master drive the Helios tone like an old Marshall Superlead. Quiet amp as well. It's a cool amp most will really dig.

 

[ampjunkie]

I've spoken with Bill Landry and he insists that all the transformer talk is overblown. I'm pretty sure he uses or has used classic tones in his amps which sound amazing....

 

[glip22]

I've spoken with Bill Landry and he insists that all the transformer talk is overblown. I'm pretty sure he uses or has used classic tones in his amps which sound amazing....

Have you ever spoken to Chris Merren? Transformers matter more than power tubes. An under built versus a high quality build matters a lot. Give Chris a call. ClassicTone sounds pretty good but they aren't built as well as some others. Merren can go into the winding process and why one is better than another. He rags on Mercury for being poor quality. He knows the process they use to wind them and he knows vintage process as well. Has Landry spent years studying them? I want a high dollar amp to have higher quality. In comparison to the 3600 modded Marshall I guess I shouldn't complain. My bad. Classic Tone all the way

 

[lespaul6]

I agree with the above but I draw the line at the whole stick wound vs handwound debate that merren gets caught up in.. from my understanding Marshall transformers were never wound by hand.. they were wound by a machine. They sound great and so does the other machine wound trannys ive heard from mercury and heybeor etc.. don't believe the hype on hand wound.
Soldano, Wizard, Cameron, Mojave, Roccaforte and some others I forget use mercury magnetics... but they do cost more than the others.