Bogner: Shiva 20th vs. Fish

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Rdodson

Rdodson

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I love my 20th Shiva. It sounds great. Really great.

But...I admit to being romanced by the 4 channels and rarity of the Fish. Thinking of going down that road.

Talk me off the ledge, or give me a push!

You can hear my Shiva and the style I play here if that helps:
https://www.youtube.com/user/iamrondodson
 
I had a Fish. Nice unit, but it's really only 3 channels because the BROWN and STRATO channels share the same eq controls.

I now own the 20th Shiva.

'nuff said.
 
Sorry, can't recommend one over the other. Question though- KT88s or 34s in your 20th?
Love your videos. Been posting up a few around here now and then. :thumbsup:
 
glassjaw7":1864dmly said:
Sorry, can't recommend one over the other. Question though- KT88s or 34s in your 20th?
Love your videos. Been posting up a few around here now and then. :thumbsup:
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I've had two. The first I did the EL34 conversion but my current has 88s and I've left it. I think they handle the drifting bias better. I love the EL34 tone, but at low volume the bias is so low that they sounded cold. And 95% of my playing is below 9oclock on the master.

Thanks for the compliments, by the way. I'm always afraid to post over here because there are some real shredders here.
 
I'd stick with the 20th Sheevs man, but that's just me :dunno:

Mo
 
I have one of each and they are nothing alike.Especially if you have two different poweramps to run the fish thru.I run my fish thru a vht 2150 & vht classic and its tone to die for...My 20th Shiva is also a great amp..I use it in many different senarios for all kinds of styles..Does modern country rock( ala Paisley,Urban, Aldean) really well, and if its dialed in right,will shred nicely too...On my fish, The 4 channels sound nothing alike,theyve each got thier own tone thing going on...I wouldnt trade off either of em.
 
I think an XTC would suit your playing style well if you're looking to try something different. The Fish is cool, but hard to match the EQ of Strato and Brown. You'd also have to have some type of switching system and a power amp...preferably a VHT. At that point you're quite invested into this unless of course you already have the other components. It's a cool preamp, but for the cost I think there are better options, unless you've already got a rack setup.
 
I have owned in the past a shiva, xtc101b and uberschalls (rev1,rev2 and blue rev), i currently got the reissue fish and vht 2502 and is my favourite of all the bogners i have owned. Now i haven't tried/owned the 20th shiva or xtc so i cannot directly compare but the fish is my fav thus far. The Shark channel sounds very close to the shiva gain in structure / feel, Strato is like the blue channel on the xtc and Brown is like a ballsy fatter sounding xtc red channel.

Just my opinion and ears :) ,

P.S - If someone came up to me and offered me a 20th anniv shiva or xtc for the fish i would probobly decline and keep the fish.. i am that happy with it! It's my dream rig.. i dreamed of "one day owning a fish ".. lastly, there are only like350 worldwide, it is kind of neat to have something so friggin' rare and known as the "holy grail" of preamps. Mystifying :thumbsup: lol.
 
And let's not forget it's all personal preferences here, right?

I do remember and recall Reinhold talking about his approval of the 'synergies' involved in a complete amp circuit with pre and power sections, versus a preamp only. Anyone else remember this bit of news he stated? I swear it caused wildfire when he said it because it was basically pitching his complete amps against his fish models. It was very divisive, albeit I am sure he never meant it to be.

Mo
 
Thanks for the responses, guys. Honestly I like every Bogner I've ever played through. My 20th Shiva is wonderful. I just yearn for that extra channel sometimes, especially if switching between Strat, Tele, and PAF-equipped guitars. That in between channel that I can pump my '70 fuzz into is missing. I can get it in the studio where I have time to switch settings and all, but it is a pain.

It seems to me the consensus is the Fish is great IF and ONLY IF you really go nuts on a power amp. If that is the case, then I'm in 20th Anniversary XTC area dollar-wise and no more portable than my Shiva. My old Kasha Rockmod II preamp sounded best through an old Peavey Classic 60/60 (6L6). Amazing, really. But then it had something go bad and I opened in up and it was Dumble glop everywhere.

Anyway, I could get an XTC with my 20th Shiva and just a bit of cash, but everyone seems to think that the openness of my Shiva is most like a 100B. And they are MORE scarce than the Fish. I do like the idea of the variac. That guy in California with a 100b makes some wonderfully great-sounding clips on YT.

Thanks again for the advice. Great info around here.

Ron
Dallas
 
Good luck in your search. I replied to your thread on tgp as well. Another vote for the 20th shiva here. I think you would really love the 20th xtc given your clip. I think you would like the 20 xtc much more thEn the 100b as well. Reinhold himself says the 20th xtc is better amp.
 
Yeah, I understand the intrigue of the "scarce", "rare" Fish and 100b, but Reinhold didn't want to reissue the Fish and says the 101b and 20th Ecstasy are improved designs and has no intentions of rehashing the 100b. Not everyone will agree and there's gonna be an inherent bias in what someone say is the best but I'd say if you like the Shiva and need an extra channel, try out an Ecstasy.
 
RSRD,
Well, I like your taste. The El Cap is greatness.

What will I miss if I go XTC and give up the 20th Sheeves?

I'm a huge Eric Johnson, EVH, and Cream fan (love love LOVE the Wheels of Fire tone). I dig Brad Paisley but can't play like him.
 
Rdodson":y7tsyzeh said:
RSRD,
Well, I like your taste. The El Cap is greatness.

What will I miss if I go XTC and give up the 20th Sheeves?

I'm a huge Eric Johnson, EVH, and Cream fan (love love LOVE the Wheels of Fire tone). I dig Brad Paisley but can't play like him.
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Do you have to sell one to get the other?
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Sometimes you can find, like i did, a 101b for $2k and thats a steal. If thats not an option, I would really just buy and xtc and try it out for yourself and see which one works best. Both are similar but yet different enough that I love both. If I hzd to give specifics id say:

Best cleans - shiva no contest (but i will say i do like the xtc cleans alot more then i thought i would. There are a LOT of xtc clean bashers out there and I found the xtc clean to be really nice if you crank the channel volume to the max and use the gain for volume control)

Best OD- xtc blue channel. Man its just so damn crisp, articulate and toneful!
second best OD - shiva channel 2
third best - xtc red

Much more i can say about the comparison but i'll have to elaborate on the weekend. Back to work! :cry:
 
Sounds like a 20th XTC is what the guy needs..Id love one myself,but id have to save up my lawn mowing money and just "add" it to my 20th Shiva.I just cannot part w/ the shiva..it kills..and ill also never part w/ the Fish..it also kills w/ my 2150 and classic....love em all..
 

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Little B":1d5btvuu said:
Sounds like a 20th XTC is what the guy needs..Id love one myself,but id have to save up my lawn mowing money and just "add" it to my 20th Shiva.I just cannot part w/ the shiva..it kills..and ill also never part w/ the Fish..it also kills w/ my 2150 and classic....love em all..
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That rig is just sick. All i know is, as much as I am loving the xtc I still dont forsee anything replacing my 20th shiva. But as a compliment amp. hell yea.
 
RSRD":au99d768 said:
Little B":au99d768 said:
Sounds like a 20th XTC is what the guy needs..Id love one myself,but id have to save up my lawn mowing money and just "add" it to my 20th Shiva.I just cannot part w/ the shiva..it kills..and ill also never part w/ the Fish..it also kills w/ my 2150 and classic....love em all..
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That rig is just sick. All i know is, as much as I am loving the xtc I still dont forsee anything replacing my 20th shiva. But as a compliment amp. hell yea.
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.....+! :thumbsup:
 
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