bogner uber question

FIREBALL":1y5vez8b said:
nbarts":1y5vez8b said:
Original
Rev2 - EL34s as far as I know
Blue Revision - power amp section was changed from rev 2, EL34s stock, also I believe other changes occurred, but from user's point of view it's the same 2 channel amp, clean & high gain. I've played both rev2 & blue & persoanlly found there was not enough difference to justify preference of one over the other. Actually I'd pick blue revision, since it's so much easier to bias.
TJ - new power section design again, presence & deep added to power section, KT88s stock. Clean channel was revamped, so it's a crunch hi-gain channel now. Also I believe there were a couple of versions of TJ, where CH1 is a little different.
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i feel kt88s give me a tighter/spongy feel at once, more so than el34s...can u feel that difference in them at all
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I have a Twin Jet that came with KT88s that I modded to use EL34s (I actually used E34Ls). KT88s actually felt weak and loose to me; I was extremely disappointed with the Twin Jet at that point because I basically bought it for the KT88s to do the exact opposite of what they were doing.

After modding it for E34L use, it's been unbelievably good. The low end is tight. Not tighter, but TIGHT (can get as tight as an Engl even because of the depth control, though on that note, can also have a massive low end like a Rectifier if you wanted). Midrange is detailed and rich: the classic Bogner sound - at least the way I think of Bogner. High end can be smooth like a Marshall, or hairy and aggressive. I currently have mine set up to be as brutal as they come, and I'd say with no hesitation that mine is one of - if not the - best metal amps I've ever heard.

Oh, and as for feel? Before with KT88s I was having more trouble staying on top of the notes, if that makes sense. It felt like the strings were made of some kind of melting, sticky rubber; very unpleasant. After the mod, it's like they're lightning rods of steel! I'd imagine it's not a world apart from rev. Blue or Rev2 (though neither is the KT88 version of the Twin Jet), but IMO the depth control is a very important addition that makes the power section feel much better.
 
I did the same as TheMagicEight and prefer EL34's in the Twin Jet by a landslide. It didn't lose any tightness, but became more dynamic and responsive than KT88's. I also greatly prefer the saturation of 34's vs. the dry sound of KT's. I have also played the Blue Rev and found it too compressed and dark for my tastes.
 
I forget what was in my prior Ubers before I had the TJ, but the KT88's in the last TJ I had flat out killed it in the tonal department. I thought it was an awesome match... The only thing that had me pawn that amp off was the fact I had too many hi-gain rigs floating around, and it was the 1st to go when I needed to pare down the inventory. Part of me misses it - but I used it maybe 10% of the time....but it sure nailed that 10% perfectly :D

I love EL34's... My latest Bogner (20thA XTC) was custom ordered with them - even though Reinhold and the boys designed the new 20thA to be modeled around 6L6's, something told me it had to be loaded with EL34 glass. Needless to say, I'm in love with it - it's got all that chunky, warm, syrupy, chewy tone I was hoping for. Now, I don't have a 6L6 head to A/B it with, but having had several 6L6 loaded heads in my past, I just don't dig 'em.

So - guess the best thing to do is buy a TJ, loaded with KT88's, crank it to the tits and get to know it for everything it offers. If it's still not your cup 'o tea, send it to a tech and get it retrofitted to handle EL34's. Simple.

Peace,
V.
 
For me, the Rev2 is just right. I think great tube amps (high gain or not) should "breathe" and have a "organic" quality to them. This alone is one reason why I'll never sell my early Dual Recto. When using the tube rectifiers on spongy that amp has that quality in spades. Now keep in mind tone and feel are in the eye/ears/hands of the beholder and very subjective. :thumbsup:

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage unknown at this time so I can't say, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison :D , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.

These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with you ears, not your eyes.
 
Death by Uberschall":2l8gly70 said:
For me, the Rev2 is just right. I think great tube amps (high gain or not) should "breathe" and have a "organic" quality to them. This alone is one reason why I'll never sell my early Dual Recto. When using the tube rectifiers on spongy that amp has that quality in spades. Now keep in mind tone and feel are in the eye/ears/hands of the beholder and very subjective. :thumbsup:

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage unknown at this time so I can't say, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison :D , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.

These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with you ears, not your eyes.
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This is the only post that the OP needs to read in this thread imo. Having owned a Rev 2 and Blue, and played through a TJ a few times I agree completely.
 
Death by Uberschall":pam45xit said:
For me, the Rev2 is just right. I think great tube amps (high gain or not) should "breathe" and have a "organic" quality to them. This alone is one reason why I'll never sell my early Dual Recto. When using the tube rectifiers on spongy that amp has that quality in spades. Now keep in mind tone and feel are in the eye/ears/hands of the beholder and very subjective. :thumbsup:

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage unknown at this time so I can't say, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison :D , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.

These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with you ears, not your eyes.
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thanx for the help
 
FIREBALL":7kihq40r said:
Death by Uberschall":7kihq40r said:
For me, the Rev2 is just right. I think great tube amps (high gain or not) should "breathe" and have a "organic" quality to them. This alone is one reason why I'll never sell my early Dual Recto. When using the tube rectifiers on spongy that amp has that quality in spades. Now keep in mind tone and feel are in the eye/ears/hands of the beholder and very subjective. :thumbsup:

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage unknown at this time so I can't say, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison :D , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.

These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with you ears, not your eyes.
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thanx for the help
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Glad to help :thumbsup:
 
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