Bogner Uberschall / 20th Shiva Owners

[Bxlxaxkxe]

Edit: I'm really starting to consider the Uberschall. There are a couple clips that just floor me (and there are about twice as many that are horrible). How does this thing do with lower gain and increased miss for an articulate hard rock tone ala AIC? I play a stripped 58 with the stock low-medium output 57/08s. So many people set this amp for extreme gain and bass but it can it be pulled back for a more defined tone??


Ive been eyeballing this amp for quite some time and am almost settled on getting one for myself.
Are you still digging it as much as when you first got? What kinds of music are you all using it for? I'm hoping to get a nice aggressive modern rock tone that means business with a lot balls behind it. Check?

If you have the boost on with the clean channel and switch to the gain channel, is the boost still on with the gain channel? I like my cleans well...not all that clean...gritty with a touch of crunch when picked hard. Does the clean channel with the boost achieve that?

How does it sit in a band mix? Cut nicely while remaining fat?

Really just looking to get pushed over the edge by some current owners...

 

[thiswaythatway]

What do you mean by modern? Do you want modern metal tones for detuned stuff? If so other amps would fit the bill better IMHO. I had the 20th and I usually had a boost pedal on to give the OD channel a little more juice. It's pretty versatile with a great clean and a great sounding gain channel. IMHO though it's not a high gain amp like a 5150 or Diezel, but it sounds better for hard rock and leads to me.

 

[Ventura]

I own one.

For a 2 channel amp, it's a 2 channel wonder, IMHO. Lotta balls man, KT88s have girth, breadth and depth. The circuit is superior in its refinement - sure, sparkly clean and all that good shit, but it can go plexi on the 1st, and go very smooth and gainy on the 2nd - with tonnes of sonic space in between. Loud lil' mutha too.

As with all amp reviews and shit, anyone can say anything - but let me put it to you this way... I own a shitload of amps, a lot of Bogners, Diezel, Mako, etc. I've been away living out-of-country for well over a year now, and the 1 amp I'm jonesing to get back to is my 20thA Sheevs. It's a brilliant unit.

Does heavies better than the 101B or 20thA-XTC, can do the 80s stuff (yawn) but is tight enough to get into that 90s style of palm muting industrial goodness too. Soaring leads - loud lil' mutha if you didn't catch it the first time - and very versatile for a 2 channel head. Won't get you nuclear like the Uber, but it's a hella more versatile to cover way more range than the Uber.

Great amp. FWIW.
Mojo

 

[Ventura]

He's using stock, but I prefer the 20th. If you need, you can get a mod done to toggle the bias for the head to accept EL34s or KT77s, but I don't find it necessary - and I've run both. Both awesome, but I dig the refined sound of the 20th.

YMMV.
Peace,
Mo

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

What do you mean by modern? Do you want modern metal tones for detuned stuff? If so other amps would fit the bill better IMHO. I had the 20th and I usually had a boost pedal on to give the OD channel a little more juice. It's pretty versatile with a great clean and a great sounding gain channel. IMHO though it's not a high gain amp like a 5150 or Diezel, but it sounds better for hard rock and leads to me.

Hard rock. We play in drop c# which I don't really consider down tuned. Cantrells tone has always floored me. Not trying to cop it but that's the ballpark.


StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

 

[flimz]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

Ah nice! Who did the work? Is there any volume jump? Sounds pretty damn useful forgive use. May have to look into that if I end up going with one.

 

[sahlomonic]

Ive been eyeballing this amp for quite some time and am almost settled on getting one for myself.
Are you still digging it as much as when you first got? What kinds of music are you all using it for? I'm hoping to get a nice aggressive modern rock tone that means business with a lot balls behind it. Check?

If you have the boost on with the clean channel and switch to the gain channel, is the boost still on with the gain channel? I like my cleans well...not all that clean...gritty with a touch of crunch when picked hard. Does the clean channel with the boost achieve that?

How does it sit in a band mix? Cut nicely while remaining fat?

Really just looking to get pushed over the edge by some current owners...

Other guitarist in my side project band has a non-20th Shiva, but here's how I view it:

His main band is very modern-rock oriented. The Shiva, although cut through the mix very well, just didn't sit right with the natural tone and gain it has. He switched to a 5153 mini and it is much better suited for that particular band. Gets the gain that's needed, and the voicing.

The band him and I put together, the Shiva is just perfect. Nails that 80's/90's hard rock and metal tones. I know the 20th has a little bit more gain than normal Shivas, but I can't imagine the voicing to be any different.

 

[flimz]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

Ah nice! Who did the work? Is there any volume jump? Sounds pretty damn useful forgive use. May have to look into that if I end up going with one.

I bought mine off a forum member and the mod was already done. Theres no volume jump. Works perfect for my applications! Makes the already very versatile Shiva even moreso!

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

Ah nice! Who did the work? Is there any volume jump? Sounds pretty damn useful forgive use. May have to look into that if I end up going with one.

I bought mine off a forum member and the mod was already done. Theres no volume jump. Works perfect for my applications! Makes the already very versatile Shiva even moreso!

Well that makes it easy for you. What are your thoughts on the gain channel, particularly with the mode and shift buttons pushed in? Pretty aggressive and fun channel?

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

I own one.

For a 2 channel amp, it's a 2 channel wonder, IMHO. Lotta balls man, KT88s have girth, breadth and depth. The circuit is superior in its refinement - sure, sparkly clean and all that good shit, but it can go plexi on the 1st, and go very smooth and gainy on the 2nd - with tonnes of sonic space in between. Loud lil' mutha too.

As with all amp reviews and shit, anyone can say anything - but let me put it to you this way... I own a shitload of amps, a lot of Bogners, Diezel, Mako, etc. I've been away living out-of-country for well over a year now, and the 1 amp I'm jonesing to get back to is my 20thA Sheevs. It's a brilliant unit.

Does heavies better than the 101B or 20thA-XTC, can do the 80s stuff (yawn) but is tight enough to get into that 90s style of palm muting industrial goodness too. Soaring leads - loud lil' mutha if you didn't catch it the first time - and very versatile for a 2 channel head. Won't get you nuclear like the Uber, but it's a hella more versatile to cover way more range than the Uber.

Great amp. FWIW.
Mojo

Thanks for the input...these are the kinds of reviews that get me pumped on this amp. Feel like the Uber is just a little too over the top for what I'm looking for. I'm sure the gain channel is fun as hell but I'm not looking for modern metal. Aggressive hard modern rock...but not metal. Thick, articulate, cutting, chords with a lot of body and depth. I'm especially a fan of the low mid grind. Does the 20th do a nice grind?

 

[flimz]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

Ah nice! Who did the work? Is there any volume jump? Sounds pretty damn useful forgive use. May have to look into that if I end up going with one.

I bought mine off a forum member and the mod was already done. Theres no volume jump. Works perfect for my applications! Makes the already very versatile Shiva even moreso!

Well that makes it easy for you. What are your thoughts on the gain channel, particularly with the mode and shift buttons pushed in? Pretty aggressive and fun channel?

The shift button pushed in is cool, but I much prefer the in your face mids with the button out. Also helps it cut better in a band mix. Like I mentioned, Im always foot-switching the mode in and out, so I love both settings.
I think the 20th gain channel is fantastic. Mine is running EL34s at the moment, but I might try KT88s next re-tube.

For comparison sake...I also brought my Friedman Smallbox to band rehearsal. An awesome sounding and feeling amp in its own right, but everyone just went WOW when I cranked up the Bogner rig. Go figure lol.

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

StI'll curious about the boost staying on when switch channels. My instincts say yes but I'm hoping the answer is no so I can get some light crunch from it and switch easily to my high gain rhythm sound.

Yes, the boost stays on when you switch channels. I recently rediscovered just how much I love my 20th Shiva, after not playing it for a bit. In my opinion, the clean channel stays pretty crystal clean unless you have the level really cranked past 3 oclock and the boost on. My 20th had a mod to make the "vintage/modern mode" switch foot-switchable. For me, this works much better for getting lighter crunch tones, then engaging the higher gain mode with the footswitch.

Ah nice! Who did the work? Is there any volume jump? Sounds pretty damn useful forgive use. May have to look into that if I end up going with one.

I bought mine off a forum member and the mod was already done. Theres no volume jump. Works perfect for my applications! Makes the already very versatile Shiva even moreso!

Well that makes it easy for you. What are your thoughts on the gain channel, particularly with the mode and shift buttons pushed in? Pretty aggressive and fun channel?

The shift button pushed in is cool, but I much prefer the in your face mids with the button out. Also helps it cut better in a band mix. Like I mentioned, Im always foot-switching the mode in and out, so I love both settings.
I think the 20th gain channel is fantastic. Mine is running EL34s at the moment, but I might try KT88s next re-tube.

For comparison sake...I also brought my Friedman Smallbox to band rehearsal. An awesome sounding and feeling amp in its own right, but everyone just went WOW when I cranked up the Bogner rig. Go figure lol.

Interesting! I was considering the smallbox as well. When other people dig your tone as much as you do...you're on to something. What kinda stuff do you play? Could you compare the tone to any recorded ones I'd know?

I'm really intrigued by the Uberschall as a hard rock amp ( as opposed to the metal tones it's known for). Any experience on that?

 

[Ventura]

Thanks for the input...these are the kinds of reviews that get me pumped on this amp. Feel like the Uber is just a little too over the top for what I'm looking for. I'm sure the gain channel is fun as hell but I'm not looking for modern metal. Aggressive hard modern rock...but not metal. Thick, articulate, cutting, chords with a lot of body and depth. I'm especially a fan of the low mid grind. Does the 20th do a nice grind?

It's got a nice middy bite, yes. I'm not a fan of augmenting my amps with a tonne of pedals... But I use the CAL Mk.4:23Pro to slam up the front end (my fave pedal - as everyone here knows...simply a clean boost, but a massive clean boost with 48V), this along with Ch.1 slightly dirtied up, or Ch.2 on a lower gain setting? Total cutting raunch.

Would love to play it and clip it... But it's about 4000miles from where I'm currently waxing my surfboards

 

[Ventura]

Oh, and as for Uberschalls versus the 20thA-Sheevs? If I _had_ to go for an Uberschall when comparing the Sheevs, I'd opt for the TwinJet as it has a decent usable 1st channel. But rest assured, it's Ch.2 that goes:

 

[Deleted member 8761]

the description as being nuclear is very fitting

I have an Uberschall rev blue and -in all honesty- I had a hard time dialing it in. The knobs react differently than other amps. It gets brutal pretty quick but there are some different tones available. The presence acts as a sort of contour sweep (from scooped to in your face aggressive mids). Very punchy as well. I read somewhere that AIC used this amp too, if that tells anything. It would make sense for huge fat chords in that style, I guess. This is an amp that you have to try in person before you buy it IMO, as the clips cannot show how it feels in person. This goes for many amps and I know it is a general statement, but the punch of this amp is impressive.

Oh, and as for Uberschalls versus the 20thA-Sheevs? If I _had_ to go for an Uberschall when comparing the Sheevs, I'd opt for the TwinJet as it has a decent usable 1st channel. But rest assured, it's Ch.2 that goes:

 

[Big Rich]

The only issue with the uber is dialing it in, you have to really sit down and mess with it alot to understand it. The knobs are really weird like Laurens said. The twin jet was actually easier to dial in than the blue rev was i felt. Once your used to it though the uber is an amazing amp.

The twin jet and the rev blue had their pros and cons, i felt that each amp did certain things better. The 2nd channel "Uber" sound was better on the blue rev i felt. The twin jets 2nd channel was voiced similar but it was a little more hollow and hifi sounding. The blue rev has this really punchy warm in your face tone to its 2nd channel that the twin jet just didnt have.


As far as the first channel goes, it depends on what your using it for. For cleans, the blue rev cleaned up better and sounded better without any effects. Both amps arent known for their clean sounds but with a little added chorus and delay and they can both sound decent, the twin jet just starts to break up a little sooner than the blue rev did.

The high gain tones on the twin jets 1st channel were amazing. Even the low gain crunch tones were pretty sweet. If your looking for range and versatility where your volume knob on your guitar does the work the twin jets 1st channel will more than likely nail it for you.

I never tried a 20th shiva but owned one of the EL34 shiva model so im not too sure how they would compare. The EL34 shiva i had was able to pull off a metal sound but you could tell it wasnt made for it. Once you tuned below a half step down the shiva would fall apart. Im sure it would benefit from a tubescreamer in the front of the amp but im very anti boost pedal and never tried it.

The shiva has huge tone to it regardless of what style you play on it. I would deff own a shiva again down the line, whatever tones it did do, it did them very well. Its probably one of my favorite amps ive ever owned. It had an amazing clean channel and the OD channel with the built in boost could pull off pretty much any style. Its a very rich thick sounding amp just full of tone.

You should really try these out before you buy them, especially the uberschall's. Ive heard of people loving the way the uber sounded until they actualy played it for themself. Its a real love/hate amp for alot of people.

 

[ericsabbath]

I own a 2002 silverback non-cosma non-reverb el34 Shiva
it can get into cantrell's degradation trip or rafael moreira ballpark quite easily
too bad I can't play shit
the amp can sound quite big and aggressive even unboosted and with low output pups

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

The only issue with the uber is dialing it in, you have to really sit down and mess with it alot to understand it. The knobs are really weird like Laurens said. The twin jet was actually easier to dial in than the blue rev was i felt. Once your used to it though the uber is an amazing amp.

The twin jet and the rev blue had their pros and cons, i felt that each amp did certain things better. The 2nd channel "Uber" sound was better on the blue rev i felt. The twin jets 2nd channel was voiced similar but it was a little more hollow and hifi sounding. The blue rev has this really punchy warm in your face tone to its 2nd channel that the twin jet just didnt have.


As far as the first channel goes, it depends on what your using it for. For cleans, the blue rev cleaned up better and sounded better without any effects. Both amps arent known for their clean sounds but with a little added chorus and delay and they can both sound decent, the twin jet just starts to break up a little sooner than the blue rev did.

The high gain tones on the twin jets 1st channel were amazing. Even the low gain crunch tones were pretty sweet. If your looking for range and versatility where your volume knob on your guitar does the work the twin jets 1st channel will more than likely nail it for you.

I never tried a 20th shiva but owned one of the EL34 shiva model so im not too sure how they would compare. The EL34 shiva i had was able to pull off a metal sound but you could tell it wasnt made for it. Once you tuned below a half step down the shiva would fall apart. Im sure it would benefit from a tubescreamer in the front of the amp but im very anti boost pedal and never tried it.

The shiva has huge tone to it regardless of what style you play on it. I would deff own a shiva again down the line, whatever tones it did do, it did them very well. Its probably one of my favorite amps ive ever owned. It had an amazing clean channel and the OD channel with the built in boost could pull off pretty much any style. Its a very rich thick sounding amp just full of tone.

You should really try these out before you buy them, especially the uberschall's. Ive heard of people loving the way the uber sounded until they actualy played it for themself. Its a real love/hate amp for alot of people.

Thanks for the input, Big Rich. Nice detailed breakdown. Short of taking a pretty serious road trip, I doubt I'm going to be able to play anything unless something pops up on Clist soon. I'm ok with taking the plunge as I'll be sure to buy at a used price that I can sell for if "it" doesn't work out.

I can almost tell what the Uber would feel like after listening to so many clips. Seems like it has a great sag but still retains punch and grind. I've played very few amps that I didn't adapt to the feel of after some time...though I really enjoy a little sag under the fingers. Currently using a SD 30 that has some great sag to it, but is lacking balls at band volumes. Also just always wanted to enter the Bogner world. Already have a Bogner 4x12, just trying to decide what to put on top of it. My worry is

1. The Ubers will sound too "metal" for what im going for, even with the gain backed down and the tone more mid focused
2. That the lack of versatility of the Rev Blue may just get old to me.
3. That the Twin Jet will have two cool channels but neither will be great.
4. The gain channel of the 20th Shiva won't be as ballsy/girthy as I'd like. It's like I wish there was something in between the Shiva and the Uber.

It may make the most sense to try the Shiva first and if it really isn't quite hitting as hard as I'm hoping...try an Uber. Still mulling...it's fun...

 

[Big Rich]

Honestly i think you will be fine with the shiva unless your really looking to get insane saturated "Cannibal Corpse" scooped tones. The 20th which is supposedly more saturated and aggressive will prob be enough for you.

My EL34 shiva was awesome until you got to downtuning, it just fell apart with my 7 strings. I think a boost will fix that though. Iwas running the combo with the single CL80 in it BTW, So im judging the tone with that factor. It probably sounds like a monster going through a 4x12 with v30's. That amp was my favorite modded marshall-ish tone, i think youd probably dig it.

search my user name "BRBONG" under youtube for vids of my shiva and uberschall tones if it helps you get an idea.