Bose L1 system

[VH4_BigRig]

Hey guys, have any of you tried out the Bose L1 system with the cylindrical speakers? I'm very curious because it sounds like it makes a lot of sense. Bose makes good stuff, but it's pricey and I'm not sure what the sound characteristics would be like compared to a regular cab mic'd through a PA (flat, midrange hump, scooped, etc). Any experiences/thoughts? Thanks!

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=...le_amplification_systems/l1_compact/index.jsp

 

[rsm]

I have one. Bose L1 Model II System with two B1 Bass Modules. I also have, and recommend the T1 ToneMatch engine which can act as a 4 channel mixer (and more). Channel's 4 + 5 share the same settings). I use this for guitar, bass and keyboards (channels 4+5 I use for keys).

I've sold my amps for bass and guitar, and use the L1 for all amplification, but I'm not playing live these days...

It needs a modeler (or a small amp that you can mike or DI to it). I purchased this as the FRFR system for my Axe-Fx Ultra, and it worked well, but it took some tweaking to make them work well together (that's probably more due to me, than the equipment). I've used it with a Zoom G2, Vox ToneLab LE and Tech 21 SansAmps - all work fine though are mid-heavy. Having the two bass modules helps, and the mids aren't as strong as the older L1 systems.

If you like to move air, and have that in the room shake the walls sound, this is not your system. Its more a surround sound, ambient sound though it can get loud in small rooms.

I'm very happy with it, and it works well for my requirements. Not sure how it would do in a band situation unless others had one too, and its not a metal solution or a loud band solution. But if your band plays at moderate practice and stage levels, and use the FOH system to fill the room this should work fine. The good news is Bose gives you 45 days to try it and send it back, so if it doesn't work for you, you have time to return (but read the fine print!)

Let me know if you have other questions or concerns and I'll do what I can to answer them.

 

[kannibul]

I'm not speaking for experience (with their PA stuff) but, as a general rule, I stay away from anything and everything Bose.

Too "colored" for my cracka-ass.

Seriously though, they are very "non-neutral" in their sound reproduction.

 

[rsm]

I'm not speaking for experience (with their PA stuff) but, as a general rule, I stay away from anything and everything Bose.

Too "colored" for my cracka-ass.

Seriously though, they are very "non-neutral" in their sound reproduction.

Yes, I agree to a point. The L1 Model II is more neutral than its predecessors, and the T1 module has a good selection of flat guitar presets, plus a +/-12 dB 3-band EQ that has its frequency band adjusted based on the instrument type of the preset you select and a user customizable 1 band Parametric EQ with frequency center (between 50 Hz 0 8000 Hz) and Width (Q) from 0.20 octave to 5.00 octave.

It works great for my keyboards and bass. For bass, I'm using a Trace Elliot MP11 preamp, though the bass presets in the T1 (Active Bass 2, since my current main bass has EMGs) work fine, however I prefer the tone from the Trace Elliot.

The T1 has factory presets for specific guitars, which includes Rickenbacker guitars and basses, which are my main instruments. These presets, like all the other specific brand settings, were done by Bose at / with the OEM. So the Ric presets where done at the Ric Factory with John C. Hall - CEO and owner of Ric, and one of his top Ric techs. These sound perfect for clean Ric jangle, chime and twang, with time based effects, but don't really take overdrive or distortion in front. Not many rock / metal guitar brands are represented. There are presets for Gibson Les Paul, 335, Fender Strat, Tele. Gretsch Country Gent, Ibanez Artist, PRS Custom 22,...

Dialing in guitar tones has proven to be more challenging, unless you have a good source to AB (at least for me) or you can translate the sound you want/hear in your head to the system! To get the B1 bass modules to kick in with guitar, it needs to be higher than bedroom levels as this is designed for live performance in small clubs. I noticed the tone gets fuller, with a richer bottom, but the tone was very similar at low to moderately loud ( channel volume up to 11 o'clock, which is as loud as I can get in the neighborhood and family home)

YMMV, and it depends what you want it for. I purchased this because I wanted a small versatile portable FRFR system for bass, guitar and keys. I'm very satisfied with it, and once you understand the reference points and dial in the EQ, it can be very neutral - but you will need to get the T1 to do this.

I've had mine since Jan '09, no plans to sell it.

 

[Copperhead]

I know a guy who uses this system (with a certain modeller which shall remain unnamed) live for guitar with a band, when I'm working the sound crew and this group is scheduled we all cringe. Totally messes up the stage monitor mix, washes off the stage into the first 10 rows, just this weird plastic guitar tone, at times it sounds like a casio synth going through a digitech pedalboard with every modulation effect on. Bleh.....

 

[blackba]

You know what they say about Bose. "No Highs, No Lows, that's Bose"

I have heard very positive and very negative reviews about their PA type systems. I think it just depends on what your instrumentation is and how big the room is. I am not a Bose fan, in general I find their stuff way overpriced for what it is. They do a great job of marketing and living off their name. Other than the old 901's I haven't really had a bose speaker or system that I was really impressed with.

I do own a set of Bose stereo speakers, but I have those in my workshop and paid $25 used for the pair. They sound pretty good.

 

[rsm]

Like I said, YMMV.

I know a guy who uses this system (with a certain modeller which shall remain unnamed) live for guitar with a band, when I'm working the sound crew and this group is scheduled we all cringe. Totally messes up the stage monitor mix, washes off the stage into the first 10 rows, just this weird plastic guitar tone, at times it sounds like a casio synth going through a digitech pedalboard with every modulation effect on. Bleh.....

This is how its supposed to work, washing in to the audience that's how it covers the small clubs without needing a FOH. I can see with an FOH how this could get messy fast, especially if he is the only one in the band using one! As to the plastic tone, I can tell you that isn't from the Bose probably more to do with the person or the tone shaping effects, or misuse of the equipment rather than the equipment. Its not difficult to make even a good rig sound like s**t. If he has an older unit, or does not have the T1 as I mentioned above, there is a good chance his modeler (or any modeler) will sound like crap. If you want to try one of these the right way: 1) make sure its the Model II 2) get the T1. I know a few guitarists that are using Blackstars, miked combos or other amps with Palmers, etc. into the L1 and are liking it. It works as Bose describes. Though, I think if I was playing a larger venue with a good FOH, I'd leave the L1 home.

IMO, mine sounds great with the Axe-Fx, Vox ToneLab LE, Zoom G2, Tech 21 Liverpool and PSA 1.1 (and my ADA MP-2). However, it wasn't a "connect, plug in, turn on, instant tone" - each required some tweaking to understand the interaction. I'm not the fastest tweaker, and I didn't have any tube amps to model or AB to dial in the sounds I want. But, I'm able to get tones that sound good to me.

You know what they say about Bose. "No Highs, No Lows, that's Bose"

I have heard very positive and very negative reviews about their PA type systems. I think it just depends on what your instrumentation is and how big the room is. I am not a Bose fan, in general I find their stuff way overpriced for what it is. They do a great job of marketing and living off their name. Other than the old 901's I haven't really had a bose speaker or system that I was really impressed with.

I do own a set of Bose stereo speakers, but I have those in my workshop and paid $25 used for the pair. They sound pretty good.

The L1 definitely has a defined range, but it can get lows and highs (I've used my 4 string bass and keyboards (way down low, and way up high to verify this) but it isn't designed for these extremes. Also, it needs to be louder than bedroom levels to get the bass modules to kick in, at too low a volume or if you are too close you get the strong mids.

Now it can get loud too, not sure how loud as I'm using it in a small room with crappy acoustics, so I haven't had a chance to push the system. As a result, I don't know how it would compare to a traditional amp (bass or guitar) at loud volumes. I'm hoping to have a chance to crank it a bit more here, but that hasn't happened yet. My guess is this set-up will not be good if you need to move air, amp in the room, or if you use your Axe-Fx with a tube amp and guitar cabs, etc. If you use a modeler, or like / prefer use/ an Axe-Fx into FRFRs, then this system may be a viable option for you to consider. And yes, a set of active FRFRs and a sub could cost much less than an L1.

I thought about the price too. But if I was to buy the full guitar rig, bass rig and keyboard rig I wanted, I would have spent a great deal more money, and I would not have room to walk or play here in my home office/studio! In the end, it works for me, I can spend my money on signal processing and guitars instead of amps and cabs and have room to move around. The Axe-Fx Ultra is on the top of my GAS list, (still kicking myself for selling it), and the Tech 21 detour I've taken is working out great for me.

 

[blackba]

^ RSM, Glad it works for you. I have anti-Bose bias, not question. I look at Bose overpriced as in if you look at the components you are getting for the Money, they appear to have a really high markup.

I have a Traynor K4 keyboard amp that works really well for a keyboard and acoustic guitar. Never tried a electric guitar modeler or a bass through it, but I assume it would work well for those too. I look at the K4 is a mini PA powered monitor.

 

[Copperhead]

All I'm saying is, it's a bear for the sound crew. Most venues with a decent PA system and monitors that actually have been sorta engineered for the room are just not into having a guitar player show up with something so different that is going to require a complete re-engineering of the system to work right. I've mixed for this group in a club sized room and in a large auditorium, it just sucked bad both venues. In the club, you have to have 0 guitar in the monitors and mains and just let him go and try to mix everything else around him. In the auditorium, 0 guitar in the monitors and he was complaining the vocals were too loud, but the backup singer/keyboard player nearer to the edge of the stage couldn't hear anything but guitar....
Then in the mains, you have to mix him in, but not too much. The first coupla rows center stage heard nothing but guitar, but by the back 1/3 of the auditorium there was nothing. I have no idea where the sweet spot in the room was, but 85% of the people there didn't hear the band properly, just nothing you can do with it, especially when there are other groups performing.
So you may be able to make it sound great at home, and that's all good if that's what you're into. I just don't see the point in a live performance situaion.

 

[rsm]

^ RSM, Glad it works for you. I have anti-Bose bias, not question. I look at Bose overpriced as in if you look at the components you are getting for the Money, they appear to have a really high markup.

I have a Traynor K4 keyboard amp that works really well for a keyboard and acoustic guitar. Never tried a electric guitar modeler or a bass through it, but I assume it would work well for those too. I look at the K4 is a mini PA powered monitor.

I bet the K4 would work great for modelers! It took me awhile to convince myself about the cost of the Bose, plus it being made in China, you know the markup is high, and shipping can't be that much with all the imports coming from that region/country.

In retrospect, with modelers, bass preamps and keys, I probably could have been fine with these for much less money: http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html
they have bass cabs too....I may still end up getting the 1x12, after I try/get a Vox AC4TV


Copperhead,

I agree with you 100%, your real experience in mixed live settings is what I would have guessed. Either the whole band would need to use these, and have someone walk around the room, etc. to hear the mix. If there's only one person in the band using it, getting a good mix in the room will be challenging as you said. That's why I said, in some cases, I'd leave it home.

There are bands that use it, but that is rare: either the whole band has to agree to do so, or someone has to buy them and "convince" the rest of the band to use them. I've not seen anyone use it live either.

 

[Copperhead]

We've got a Bose monitor system, the whole deal with the controller, on a difficult stage to monitor, hard back wall and low ceiling. Sounds great, but sucks if you are on the sides of the stage where they are 'cause you about get your head blowed off....

The best home audio speakers I've had, (they did need subs though) were 601e's.

I just get a bad anxiety attack whenever I see those L1 columns though

 

[VH4_BigRig]

Thanks a lot for the discussion guys, this helped quite a bit in identifying what needs to happen for this system to work!

Part of the reason I was so curious was because at of a couple of live shows I've been to lately the mixes weren't very good and where you stood in the audience played a large part in how good the band sounded. This seemed like a logical way to deal with that, but I had a hunch that unless everyone in the band used one that it might be a lost cause...and it sounds like that's the case!

Bose has made the best home theater systems I've heard so far, but as blackba mentioned they are overpriced for what they are considering the components they're made from- which is why I settled on a LG system at home, it was the best bang for your buck at that particular store. I had no idea what their stage equipment sounded like, and didn't want to risk shelling out a bunch of cash for something overpriced that would ultimately be more of a headache than a benefit unless everyone was using them.

I'm still curious to test one at some point, because they seem like a good idea...but it's on the backburner now!

Cheers

 

[Shark Diver]

Strange. I have been using 2 L1 systems for a couple of years now as our FoH. Every single time we go to a new club if they have had other bands play there using the Bose sticks it gives us instant creed. And after we are always complimented on our sound. Played with a few guys the other night and they asked if I would bring my PA. I was subbing for the guitarist, who owned their PA. Club, band and audience did nothing but praise the sound. Club gave the band a bonus because she said it sounded so good. They had been regulars there for over 3 years, owner said they never sounded so good.

Indoors, and out, have never had issues. Great for small clubs. Much better in my experience than anything Mackie makes - and I have owned their top of the line gear. Also JBL, SRX series. Obviously not running them as Bose suggest, but I tried that with 4 systems, and in smaller places you are just too close to the speakers since they are behind you. Saw Steve Miller in concert a year ago and they had 5 Bose systems on stage.

As far as guitar through the L1s, I don't really like that, and I run direct into 2 JBL monitors off of a Palmer03. So, this is not a cab/mic vs direct thing. But I have to do some serious EQing to even get a decent high gain sound. Acoustics are great, but distortion tones just don't cut it. Now I haven't used the T1, so don't know if that would help. But the mere fact that I can run direct pretty much anywhere else and not have issues tells me the Bose aren't FRFR, or flat.

I think they are great, except for electric guitar. But I'm working on that.

 

[rsm]

For guitar sounds I want, I'm getting good tones, so-so tones, and great tones out of my L1. The Axe-Fx Ultra, Zoom G2 and now Tech 21 SansAmps sound good/great in the L1 for the most part. It was hit or miss with a ToneLab LE, and the Ultra took me awhile mostly due to my NOOB state with both the Ultra and L1. A little EQ tweaking, as I noticed at low volumes I get less bass / low end response for guitar, but when I get the channel volume past / close to 11 o'clock, the B1s start to come alive. At lower volumes, I now cut the high zEQ band 2-6 dB. The T1 Utility Flat preset is supposedly FRFR, but I use General Processor or General Direct for my guitar modelers/simulators/emulators which work best for me. Bass and keys work great too.

I've heard of people using the L1 as a FOH PA instead of one per band member, but those were usually folk/bluegrass bands. Sharkdiver, many L1 owners who gig them have similar stories, but I can see if one member is using as their onstage rig with everyone else using traditional gear, it could be challenging to manage the sound wash that the L1 provides? Do you have T1's, Model I or II?

I think using it as your FOH or as one-per-band-member are viable solutions, which are what Bose recommends, which would work. But, if only one band member is using it, and the rest are using traditional gear and FOH, that would be messy.

 

[Copperhead]

Strange. I have been using 2 L1 systems for a couple of years now as our FoH.

There you have it. This guy uses it as his FRFR amp coming out of his***** modeller. Two columns, either side of the drum stage. Mix your monitors and mains around that!

 

[Shark Diver]

Strange. I have been using 2 L1 systems for a couple of years now as our FoH.

There you have it. This guy uses it as his FRFR amp coming out of his***** modeller. Two columns, either side of the drum stage. Mix your monitors and mains around that!

Um, maybe you should read my post better. I am using the Bose as my mains. What are you mixing around? And I don't use it as a FRFR amp, and I don't use a ***** modeller. I use a Soldano SLO 100. Last I heard that wasn't a modeller. But I could call Mike and check.

I've heard of people using the L1 as a FOH PA instead of one per band member, but those were usually folk/bluegrass bands. Sharkdiver, many L1 owners who gig them have similar stories, but I can see if one member is using as their onstage rig with everyone else using traditional gear, it could be challenging to manage the sound wash that the L1 provides? Do you have T1's, Model I or II?

I have the model IIs. I have 2 model 1s as well, but when I decided not to use them "one per band member" those went in storage. I originally bought 2 model 1s to have a stereo guitar rig, and I used them in an acoustic duo. They sounded so good the other band members talked me into getting 2 more, right when Model II was coming out. But our keyboardist just couldn't get use to the sound coming from behind her. The rest of us loved them, 4 on stage, but the loudest bitching got her way. I had already toyed with the idea of using them FoH, so it was a natural switch. 4 B1s per side.

One club in Laguna we were playing had a flight of stairs. Try carrying a Mackie 18" sub up those by yourself. Even the tops are brutal. So, the Bose were first tried there and the owner couldn't believe how great it sounded. Been using them ever since. Plus you get enough mix standing behind them that our monitor volume went way down, and then from 4 separate monitors to one - strictly for some vocal fill.

Just like my guitar rig, that with one cord can go from a direct stereo rig, to a cab W/D/W rig, all I have to do is bring the Mackies for large rooms, but that isn't too often as the Bose really fill some space.

 

[blackba]

Kind of as I predicted, people either love or hate the Bose's systems. Or they have too much anti-Bose Bias to give them a shot (this would describe me)

 

[Copperhead]

Strange. I have been using 2 L1 systems for a couple of years now as our FoH.

There you have it. This guy uses it as his FRFR amp coming out of his***** modeller. Two columns, either side of the drum stage. Mix your monitors and mains around that!

Um, maybe you should read my post better. I am using the Bose as my mains. What are you mixing around? And I don't use it as a FRFR amp, and I don't use a ***** modeller. I use a Soldano SLO 100. Last I heard that wasn't a modeller. But I could call Mike and check.

Umm...
Maybe YOU should read the OP, the whole thread, and my previous posts describing how I've seen this system used, before jumping all over me and assuming I'm talking about you....when I was actually paying you a compliment because you are using the system correctly.
Thanks poophead.