Bought a VHT 2/90/2. Should I have bought a 2/50/2 instead?

[TheGreatGreen]

Title says it all. I'm worried I made the wrong choice.

Here's the deal. Basically, when I was trying to choose between the two, I did it without hearing either one (nobody around where I live stocks them). I chose the 2/90/2 because I primarily use high gain rock type tones, and I heard that the 2/90/2 was better for that type of sound because of the extended dynamic range, more headroom, and better bass + treble response.

However as we all know, the guitar is a mid-range instrument and as such, mids are very important. Also, guitars traditionally sound best with tube amps (maybe not always 100% true for every situation but work with me here), and EL34s as I understand it have better "sag" and "bloom" and make the guitar sound more vibrant / lush / 3D / sound like tubes / etc. than KT88s or 6550s.


I'm worried that even though the 2/90/2 is said to have the edge for heavy, modern tone (better headroom, bandwidth, dynamics), I'm worried that KT88s and 6550s don't have the "breath" and smooth mids that EL34s do, and because of that, they're always going to sound stiff and lifeless in comparison.

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

 

[Bob Savage]

"Better" is a matter of personal preference. Try it out and if it doesn't blow your socks off sell it and try the 2/50/2.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Yeah, I realize that "better" is really subjective, but if I end up liking the 2/90/2 better after I sell it off and get a 2/50/2 then I'll be kinda stuck.

Also, I'm not asking you guys to tell me what I'll like more (after all, we can only hear through our own ears), just to tell me whether my worries are founded or not.


Basically, I'd just like to know if the 2/90/2 can sound as smooth in the mids (not necessarily more mids, but pleasant and musical, not harsh mids) as a 2/50/2.

 

[jlbaxe]

AEROIC (ERIC) where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. ask him he has had them both and would be the one i ask.

 

[King Guitar]

I asked Dave Freidman the same question...

I have a VHT 2/50/2 in my new rig build.

Sorry...

 

[Greazygeo]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

 

[Unknownrash]

I had a 2/50/2 at one point. I had it paired up with a Triaxis. At the time I thought the 2502 was dull, lifeless and stiff. I also had a Mesa 2:90 which was a bit better and had a more lively feel but only a little bit though. I got the 2502 thinking it would better in terms of getting a crunch/grind going in my tone but I was wrong. I have never played through the 2902 but I can't imagine there's going to be huge difference. I sold all the rack stuff in the end.

 

[aeroic]

As jlbaxe said, I've owned both at the same time. The VHT 2/50/2 is a great amp. I had my tech mod the resistor going to the bias pot of the 2/50/2 to accept 6550s so I could do an accurate test of the two power sections. Before I get to that, remember the lineage of where each comes from. The VHT 2/90/2 was designed with the same input circuit as a VHT 2150. For those who have watched the VHT power amp line progress through history, know that the VHT 2150 is held by many to be the best power section made to date...(again...this is subjective)...but I have to tend to agree. I've owned the 2150, and it is a SUPER BEAST of a power amp!!!

That being said, The VHT 2/90/2 comes "the closest' to nailing the 2150's power section. It does miss a "slight bit" of punch and girth that the 2150 does, but that comes with a price....much heavier transformer, 4-space rack instead of 2-space..etc. That being said, the 2/90/2 sounded so close to the 2150 I felt the need to sell the 2150 (for my back!!!) and stick with the 2/90/2. Every person that has come and checked out the VHT 2/90/2 is amazed on how huge it sounds, how punchy it is, how the mids are smooth, buttery, and nasty all rolled into one. Comparing the 2/90/2 side by side and to tape (unfortunately I don't have the recordings anymore) let the 2/90/2 stay in the rack and sell off the 2/50/2. The 2/50/2 is a punchy amp, but I felt it didn't work well for everything. Cleans didn't sparkle like on the VHT 2/90/2...mid-gain was a bit mushier, and the muscular feel was just plain gone... (Now..Let me say it is a BAD ASS sounding power amp....one of the best EL34 tones you'll get). But, for me, coming from using a Marshall JCM 800 w/ 6550s using preamps into effects loop, the VHT 2/50/2 was a step down IMHO. The 2/90/2 was a step up though!!!

I personally use Egnater preamps with my VHT 2/90/2. Everyone of them (Bassman, Deluxe, AC30, Dumble, Mark I, SLO100, Marshall Tones, etc) sounded amazing through it. The 6550s have great headroom, but great punchy lows, and low-mid grind. They have a sweet mid-range that is a bit less pronounced than a EL34, but still smooth and nasty all rolled into one. The high's are not ice-picky at all, and are smooth, but shimmering and sparkly.

I personally love 6550s. The only tube I've had that comes close is a Tung Sol EL34B. Great great tube there... But if you are looking for power tube distortion and lots of it, then 6550s won't be your bag. I personally get my tone from my preamp, with some coloration from the power section. 6550s to overdrive some...and there's tons of warmth there. You like SRV's Dumble tones/???? Well....they had 6550s in the power section!!! You like Zakk Wylde's JCM800 tones....he uses 6550s!!! So, it shows how versatile the tube really is.

Another note, all you need to do to use EL34's in a VHT 2/90/2 is to have a tech change the resistor feeding the bias pot. So, you really don't need to sell your VHT 2/90/2 if you want EL34's. Hell, have one side changed to EL34's and one to 6550s. Then you get the best of both worlds. Each side of the amp has it's own bias pot...

Anyways...hope that helps. I love VHT's power amps...and my ranking order is Big #1 2150...close #2 2/90/2...distant 3rd 2/50/2.

Eric

 

[aeroic]

I had a 2/50/2 at one point. I had it paired up with a Triaxis. At the time I thought the 2502 was dull, lifeless and stiff. I also had a Mesa 2:90 which was a bit better and had a more lively feel but only a little bit though. I got the 2502 thinking it would better in terms of getting a crunch/grind going in my tone but I was wrong. I have never played through the 2902 but I can't imagine there's going to be huge difference. I sold all the rack stuff in the end.

There is a huge difference between the 2902 and 2502. The 2902 was designed to be the "little brother" of the 2150...which is a beast of a power amp!!!

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

I'm currently playing through an Axe-Fx, but plan on adding additional preamps in the future, and maybe even building a wet/dry/wet rig with a separate head and the VHT just running the effects. I realize that the Axe-Fx is super versatile and could work with both the 2/90/2 or the 2/50/2 and sound just fine... but I'd also like the poweramp to sound good on its own, without poweramp emulation and the like.

 

[aeroic]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

Well..one thing nice about 6550s...is they have a high headroom. They sound awesome at all levels.

For instance, these all were recorded at low-moderate volumes recorded w/ a VHT 2/90/2

http://www.music-boulevard.org/mp3/octane.mp3
http://www.music-boulevard.org/mp3/gtr_test3.mp3
http://www.music-boulevard.org/mp3/k100 ... _mixed.mp3
http://www.music-boulevard.org/mp3/afwayu_test.mp3

 

[Bob Savage]

I rest my case.

 

[aeroic]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

I'm currently playing through an Axe-Fx, but plan on adding additional preamps in the future, and maybe even building a wet/dry/wet rig with a separate head and the VHT just running the effects. I realize that the Axe-Fx is super versatile and could work with both the 2/90/2 or the 2/50/2 and sound just fine... but I'd also like the poweramp to sound good on its own, without poweramp emulation and the like.

I think you'll be happy you bought the VHT 2/90/2. I sure am!!! Only other non-VHT power amp I've owned that I liked nearly as much was my JCM800 w/ a pre-EQ return. (so you could use the EQ and the power section...so you could shape the tone w/ the EQ but bypass the gain stages!)

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Wow aeroic, thanks for the detailed response.

So, you say the 2/90/2 can be modded to accept EL34s? Let me ask you... if you do that, how close will the 2/90/2 with EL34s sound to the 2/50/2 with the same tubes?

 

[aeroic]

Wow aeroic, thanks for the detailed response.

So, you say the 2/90/2 can be modded to accept EL34s? Let me ask you... if you do that, how close will the 2/90/2 with EL34s sound to the 2/50/2 with the same tubes?

The 2/90/2 will still have more girth and punch... With the same 6550 power tubes in a 2/50/2 and 2/90/2 the 2/90/2 smoked the 2/50/2.

Eric

 

[TheGreatGreen]

I rest my case.

What? Would you mind clarifying that?

 

[Digital Jams]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

Overkill overshmill

I want a 2150

 

[aeroic]

Is this true? is the 2/90/2 going to sound stiff or lifeless compared to the 2/50/2? Will the 2/90/2 always have a harsh midrange compared to the 2/50/2?

What are you using for a preamp? How much volume are you throwing at the speakers? I dont normally recommend the 2 90 2 for anyone....they are usually overkill.

Overkill overshmill

I want a 2150

Dude...they rock!!! I did love my 2150 man. My back didn't though!

 

[TheGreatGreen]

So just to be clear, if I mod my 2/90/2 for EL34s, I'll get the clarity and punch of the larger transistor with the midrange sweetness of the EL34?

 

[guitarslinger]

I play a VHT 2150.

I just turn the presence down on the power amp, and the mids up on the preamp.

sounds great.