Cameron, Friedman, Splawn, Rhodes or Bogner..., recommend

[paulyc]

Well, with Diezel or other European amps you're a victim of the exchange rate being that the euro is high against the dollar, plus a company like Diezel gives you an awful lot of features for 4K...Rhodes are made in USA with the finest parts, HUGE flexibility, and MIDI and their own CAN BUSS (I think) system for communication between all his products (pedal board, amp, and effect switcher), and the amps are NOT 4 or 5 K (the Colossus is close to 4, but not there yet) plus they're made right here in the good 'ole US of A which I think is awesome. You can't get a new Cameron (right now at least) so used ones pop up from time to time and they're under 3K for CCV, Atomica, or Old Bitch...and worth every penny. I miss the days of being able to buy a REAL English Marshall for 400 bucks too, but that will never happen again (China or not), so if people are willing to spend 1500 or more for a Chinese Marshall I think a 2600 Rhodes Gemini is a hell of a bargin...

 

[Heritage Softail]

Mesa MKIIC is the angry modded Marshall tone. Lots of Mesa Mark series amps in 80's tone.

 

[Anonymous]

But how far off are the splawn or the marshall that you own? Im sorry, but all things considered I have a hard time justifying paying 3-4k for an amp (which costs a builder maybe a quarter of that to build) that might be 5-10% "better" than something else. For 80s hard rock/metal, a Splawn cant be beat for the price.

This is very frustrating to me... I can tell you that at least some small builders selling amps for $3K are not paying a quarter of that for parts. At least I'm not. The profit margin on my amps is very small. I'm not going to compare my amps to Splawn because I respect all other builders out there, and I have no idea if he has a better sourcing ability than me, but my parts cost me a lot of money... and my amps are priced accordingly. If I sold them any cheaper, it wouldn't be worth building them. Sometimes I just feel like sharing my BOM (Bill of Materials) so people can see the facts on what it costs to build a super high quality amp in small quantities...

And I'm not even considering what professional packaging, advertising, labor and R&D costs me. I'm strictly talking about the parts to build one amp when you build in quantities of 10-15 at a time...

Look, I do this for reasons beyond trying to make a lot of money and I don't live off my amp business right now, but I hate when people make it appear/imply that people building/selling $3K+ amps are ripping people off because their cost is only "a quarter of that".

Steve

 

[smdb]

But how far off are the splawn or the marshall that you own? Im sorry, but all things considered I have a hard time justifying paying 3-4k for an amp (which costs a builder maybe a quarter of that to build) that might be 5-10% "better" than something else. For 80s hard rock/metal, a Splawn cant be beat for the price.

This is very frustrating to me... I can tell you that at least some small builders selling amps for $3K are not paying a quarter of that for parts. At least I'm not. The profit margin on my amps is very small. I'm not going to compare my amps to Splawn because I respect all other builders out there, and I have no idea if he has a better sourcing ability than me, but my parts cost me a lot of money... and my amps are priced accordingly. If I sold them any cheaper, it wouldn't be worth building them. Sometimes I just feel like sharing my BOM (Bill of Materials) so people can see the facts on what it costs to build a super high quality amp in small quantities...

And I'm not even considering what professional packaging, advertising, labor and R&D costs me. I'm strictly talking about the parts to build one amp when you build in quantities of 10-15 at a time...

Look, I do this for reasons beyond trying to make a lot of money and I don't live off my amp business right now, but I hate when people make it appear that people building $3K amps are ripping people off. If you want an amp that is built to sound consistent from amp to amp, uses the finest quality parts available and is built in the USA, you have to pay a reasonable price. If you are satisfied with something of lesser build quality, you have options...

Steve

I have a buddy in town who builds amps and I was shocked to hear how little he actually made..

 

[Anonymous]

Not that easy to try Camerons, Rhodes, or Splawns...or many of the other boutique builders mentioned in this thread.

A great point. I dont have the cash to risk not liking an amp that costs me 4k and being stuck with it or or have to go through the pain to have to sell it. More power to ya if you can. But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry.

'Cause you're an experienced amp builder and you know what a particular builder pays for his parts, right? Also, many amp builders have trial periods, where you can return the amp for a small re-stocking fee if you don't dig it. None of the amps mentioned above cost $4-5K anyway. The only ones I know that are popular that do are Diezel and that is because there is significant additional cost in the USA due to them being built in relatively small quantities in Germany.

Why not just say you aren't willing to pay $4-5K for an amp, rather than make a blanket statement about whether a particular builder can justify that price tag since you have no idea what it really costs to build them? It's insulting...

Steve

 

[Heritage Softail]

This is hilarious.

Spend your 30K on a custom Harley. Or spend 4K on a nice Wilson Combat 45ACP.

3-5K not a big chunk for an amp someone prototyped, produced, and brought to market.

If that 3-5K is rent money or retirement money, that is just mismanagement of money, not an amp pricing issue.

 

[JerEvil]

I've just gig with my new Quickrod and was in heaven all night. I found it not to be easy to play and control with plenty of bottom end. Two thumbs up for me.

This.

I have owned VHT/Fryette, Mesa, Marshall, etc. My Splawn has beaten all the know, higher end available production amps. I never thought I'd be happier than I was with my VHT/Fruette's but man the Splawn just absolutely KILLS!

Henning, Friedman, etc. are all amazingly built amps and I am sure will yield you the results you are looking for but value for dollar, (which is relative to the buyer) no one beats Splawn's offerings IMHO.

My favorite tones are old Dokken, Ratt as well as Accept, Maiden, King Diamond all the way up to In Flames. The Splawn Quick Rod will nail all of them.

Not that easy to try Camerons, Rhodes, or Splawns...or many of the other boutique builders mentioned in this thread.

A great point. I dont have the cash to risk not liking an amp that costs me 4k and being stuck with it or or have to go through the pain to have to sell it. More power to ya if you can. But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry.

'Cause you're an experienced amp builder and you know what a particular builder pays for his parts, right? Also, many amp builders have trial periods, where you can return the amp for a small re-stocking fee if you don't dig it. None of the amps mentioned above cost $4-5K anyway. The only ones I know that are popular that do are Diezel and that is because there is significant additional cost in the USA due to them being built in relatively small quantities in Germany.

Why not just say you aren't willing to pay $4-5K for an amp, rather than make a blanket statement about whether a particular builder can justify that price tag since you have no idea what it really costs to build them? It's insulting...

Steve

Steve, plaease understand my statement as this, I would LOVE to buy a Henning. No doubt, and one day I may (actually looking to buy myself a nice 40th birthday present in Sept). Generally folks that want to spend Cameron, Henning, Rhodes money will not add lower price point offerings in their posts which tells me the real question was, will the Splawn satisfied the OP's tone quest.

I certainly would not intentionally talk someone out of a more costly option. I know amp builders passion to create something excellent will certainly pay more dividends then actual sales. It's like trying to survive being a musician. Gotta do it cuz you love it.

 

[Anonymous]

I've just gig with my new Quickrod and was in heaven all night. I found it not to be easy to play and control with plenty of bottom end. Two thumbs up for me.

This.

I have owned VHT/Fryette, Mesa, Marshall, etc. My Splawn has beaten all the know, higher end available production amps. I never thought I'd be happier than I was with my VHT/Fruette's but man the Splawn just absolutely KILLS!

Henning, Friedman, etc. are all amazingly built amps and I am sure will yield you the results you are looking for but value for dollar, (which is relative to the buyer) no one beats Splawn's offerings IMHO.

My favorite tones are old Dokken, Ratt as well as Accept, Maiden, King Diamond all the way up to In Flames. The Splawn Quick Rod will nail all of them.

Not that easy to try Camerons, Rhodes, or Splawns...or many of the other boutique builders mentioned in this thread.

A great point. I dont have the cash to risk not liking an amp that costs me 4k and being stuck with it or or have to go through the pain to have to sell it. More power to ya if you can. But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry.

'Cause you're an experienced amp builder and you know what a particular builder pays for his parts, right? Also, many amp builders have trial periods, where you can return the amp for a small re-stocking fee if you don't dig it. None of the amps mentioned above cost $4-5K anyway. The only ones I know that are popular that do are Diezel and that is because there is significant additional cost in the USA due to them being built in relatively small quantities in Germany.

Why not just say you aren't willing to pay $4-5K for an amp, rather than make a blanket statement about whether a particular builder can justify that price tag since you have no idea what it really costs to build them? It's insulting...

Steve

Steve, plaease understand my statement as this, I would LOVE to buy a Henning. No doubt, and one day I may (actually looking to buy myself a nice 40th birthday present in Sept). Generally folks that want to spend Cameron, Henning, Rhodes money will not add lower price point offerings in their posts which tells me the real question was, will the Splawn satisfied the OP's tone quest.

I certainly would not intentionally talk someone out of a more costly option. I know amp builders passion to create something excellent will certainly pay more dividends then actual sales. It's like trying to survive being a musician. Gotta do it cuz you love it.

I totally get what you're saying, bro and I have no problem with your comments at all. I also have no problem with people recommending Splawn over more expensive amps, including mine. Everyone has an opinion and we're here to share them. I just take offense to folks saying "But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry." when they really have no idea what it costs to bring a super high quality amp to market in small batches. If someone doesn't want to pay that price, I totally get it, but to say the price is unjustifiable without any knowledge is pretty insulting to the folks bringing those amps to market…

Steve

 

[JerEvil]

I've just gig with my new Quickrod and was in heaven all night. I found it not to be easy to play and control with plenty of bottom end. Two thumbs up for me.

This.

I have owned VHT/Fryette, Mesa, Marshall, etc. My Splawn has beaten all the know, higher end available production amps. I never thought I'd be happier than I was with my VHT/Fruette's but man the Splawn just absolutely KILLS!

Henning, Friedman, etc. are all amazingly built amps and I am sure will yield you the results you are looking for but value for dollar, (which is relative to the buyer) no one beats Splawn's offerings IMHO.

My favorite tones are old Dokken, Ratt as well as Accept, Maiden, King Diamond all the way up to In Flames. The Splawn Quick Rod will nail all of them.

Not that easy to try Camerons, Rhodes, or Splawns...or many of the other boutique builders mentioned in this thread.

A great point. I dont have the cash to risk not liking an amp that costs me 4k and being stuck with it or or have to go through the pain to have to sell it. More power to ya if you can. But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry.

'Cause you're an experienced amp builder and you know what a particular builder pays for his parts, right? Also, many amp builders have trial periods, where you can return the amp for a small re-stocking fee if you don't dig it. None of the amps mentioned above cost $4-5K anyway. The only ones I know that are popular that do are Diezel and that is because there is significant additional cost in the USA due to them being built in relatively small quantities in Germany.

Why not just say you aren't willing to pay $4-5K for an amp, rather than make a blanket statement about whether a particular builder can justify that price tag since you have no idea what it really costs to build them? It's insulting...

Steve

Steve, plaease understand my statement as this, I would LOVE to buy a Henning. No doubt, and one day I may (actually looking to buy myself a nice 40th birthday present in Sept). Generally folks that want to spend Cameron, Henning, Rhodes money will not add lower price point offerings in their posts which tells me the real question was, will the Splawn satisfied the OP's tone quest.

I certainly would not intentionally talk someone out of a more costly option. I know amp builders passion to create something excellent will certainly pay more dividends then actual sales. It's like trying to survive being a musician. Gotta do it cuz you love it.

I totally get what you're saying, bro and I have no problem with your comments at all. I also have no problem with people recommending Splawn over more expensive amps, including mine. Everyone has an opinion and we're here to share them. I just take offense to folks saying "But again, no amount of labor or r&d justify a 4-5k price tag. Sorry." when they really have no idea what it costs to bring a super high quality amp to market in small batches. If someone doesn't want to pay that price, I totally get it, but to say the price is unjustifiable without any knowledge is pretty insulting to the folks bringing those amps to market…

Steve

Certainly. I would also add to your argument, Henning, Rhodes, etc. have a very limited staff putting these amps together. In most cases ONE guy. It's not just R&D but assembly, QC, etc.

 

[BMoore77]

Im sorry Steve but I have to disagree. And, dont get me wrong, its not just amps..this whole gear thing has gotten to the point of insanity. I mean seriously..the price to upgrade and Floyd with titanium this and that??? Little blocks of titanium? ...that price? Insane. I would love to see a "Bill of Materials" for that. Wonder what the Bill of Materials is for a Klon. The best part is when people actually throw down the money for this stuff and "this is the greatest amp in the world". Fast forward to week 3 and they are already asking why it isnt dialing in right or what pedals should I put in front of it. Steve, they call that the old "justification of purchase." And its a wonderful thing. Have a great day.

 

[paulyc]

I own a machine shop, and the cost of titanium is ASTOUNDING...plus it's incredibly hard to machine and hard on cutting tools...not to mention the fumes that come off it when cutting it are hazardous to your health, so I GET the costs involved with those...

 

[lessthan12]

Im sorry Steve but I have to disagree. And, dont get me wrong, its not just amps..this whole gear thing has gotten to the point of insanity. I mean seriously..the price to upgrade and Floyd with titanium this and that??? Little blocks of titanium? ...that price? Insane. I would love to see a "Bill of Materials" for that. Wonder what the Bill of Materials is for a Klon. The best part is when people actually throw down the money for this stuff and "this is the greatest amp in the world". Fast forward to week 3 and they are already asking why it isnt dialing in right or what pedals should I put in front of it. Steve, they call that the old "justification of purchase." And its a wonderful thing. Have a great day.

Ive got my BE dialed in perfect,no pedals needed. FWIW, when I tried the Splawn QR I didn't like it,that was my experience. You should also note that most of the high end amp builders don't need you as a customer, they're doing just fine without you

 

[Anonymous]

Im sorry Steve but I have to disagree. And, dont get me wrong, its not just amps..this whole gear thing has gotten to the point of insanity. I mean seriously..the price to upgrade and Floyd with titanium this and that??? Little blocks of titanium? ...that price? Insane. I would love to see a "Bill of Materials" for that. Wonder what the Bill of Materials is for a Klon. The best part is when people actually throw down the money for this stuff and "this is the greatest amp in the world". Fast forward to week 3 and they are already asking why it isnt dialing in right or what pedals should I put in front of it. Steve, they call that the old "justification of purchase." And its a wonderful thing. Have a great day.

You can't disagree with me, because your retort does not contradict one thing I said. What I did say was that in many cases, the Bill of Materials alone justifies the price, especially in the case of very high quality amps. Since you don't know what the BOMs are for these amps, you have no idea whether the price is "justifiable" or not. So, all you are doing is spouting off about what you will or won't buy and incorrectly generalizing that any amp that costs $3K or $4K or $5K (e.g., something you personally cannot afford, or are just unwilling to pay for) is a ripoff. The facts are that you are flat wrong and you don't know what you are talking about...

Klon Centaurs are expensive because of the hype and lack of availability. Period. That is out of control of the builder, but he'd be an idiot not to take advantage of it. In fact, before the incredible hype, they were (relatively) reasonably priced. Not even close to an example of what you were going on about...

Also, on the titanium, you are again, completely wrong. The cost of titanium is astronomical and thus parts made with it are costly. Don't think they are worth it, hey don't buy 'em, but don't complain about the price because the material is costly and hard to work with. See the difference? I bet not...

You're problem is that you cannot differentiate between what you cannot or will not pay for something vs.a reasonable price considering the amount of production, cost of the parts, pro packaging, R&D, advertising, labor, facilities, region of manufacture, etc.

Buy what you want, that's fine. If something is too expensive for you or you don't think it is worth it, say you'd never pay that for an amp/guitar/pedal/floyd upgrade. No problem. Just don't insult the people making these pieces of gear when you have no idea what the parts cost that go into them and what it costs to build them profitably, including everything I mentioned above.

You have a nice day too, fella...

Steve

 

[Meathead]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

 

[Anonymous]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

Listen fella, back off!

Steve

 

[Meathead]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

Listen fella, back off!

Steve

:silly slap:

I could use a fish as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

Listen fella, back off!

Steve

:silly slap:

Ouch...

Steve

 

[Meathead]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

Listen fella, back off!

Steve

:silly slap:

Ouch...

Steve

 

[Chris6870]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

At least he didn't call him sport.

 

[Meathead]

Boy, if someone called me fella I would slap them silly.

At least he didn't call him sport.

hmmm...that's not as bad. Fella is slapping words.