Can someone explain this wattage and cab situation to me

romanianreaper

romanianreaper

Well-known member
So the 5150-III 1x12 cab has a 30 watt speaker and can handle a 50 watt head. Same for the EVH 2x12 with 60 watts total handling a 100 watt head.

I was looking at a Bad Cat 2x12 with 60 watt handling and was told it wouldn't be able to handle a 100 watt head.

Is there something I'm missing or is it:

- EVH cabs CAN'T handle what people say
- The Bad Cat is 8 ohm and 100 watts at 8 ohms is different than 100 watts at 16 ohm
- People just don't crank their amp when they own these
 
I wouldn't expect a cab to handle more than what it's rated; but if a cab is rated at 8 ohms, and you run a 16 ohm signal into it, that power should be cut in half...

which may be why a 30W rated speaker can handle 50W power, if the speaker is rated 30W at 8 ohms, but the 50W load signal is 16 ohms (which should be reducing the 50W power to 25W)?
 
romanianreaper said:
So the 5150-III 1x12 cab has a 30 watt speaker and can handle a 50 watt head. Same for the EVH 2x12 with 60 watts total handling a 100 watt head.

I was looking at a Bad Cat 2x12 with 60 watt handling and was told it wouldn't be able to handle a 100 watt head.

Is there something I'm missing or is it:

- EVH cabs CAN'T handle what people say
- The Bad Cat is 8 ohm and 100 watts at 8 ohms is different than 100 watts at 16 ohm
- People just don't crank their amp when they own these
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I have that exact amp and I have had no issues and it sounds fantastic.

Good question though, I was always told you should have twice the wattage speaker for the amp watts.
 
Geo said:
I have that exact amp and I have had no issues and it sounds fantastic.

Good question though, I was always told you should have twice the wattage speaker for the amp watts.
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Yeah it's weird because I always learned the same thing. But then the EVH 1x12 comes out and it is like "perfect with 50 watt EVH amp" and im like wtf?
 
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romanianreaper said:
- The Bad Cat is 8 ohm and 100 watts at 8 ohms is different than 100 watts at 16 ohm
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It's not this, assuming impedances are matched.
romanianreaper said:
- EVH cabs CAN'T handle what people say
- People just don't crank their amp when they own these
Click to expand...
So it's one of these, or some other explanation. I doubt the speakers are conservatively rated. I have a friend that blew one of those same speakers with a 5153 EL34 50W in a 2x12. It was that anniversary speaker, and a Swamp Thang. He was regularly cranking the amp, and eventually the Anniversary just died.
 
romanianreaper said:
So the 5150-III 1x12 cab has a 30 watt speaker and can handle a 50 watt head. Same for the EVH 2x12 with 60 watts total handling a 100 watt head.

I was looking at a Bad Cat 2x12 with 60 watt handling and was told it wouldn't be able to handle a 100 watt head.

Is there something I'm missing or is it:

- EVH cabs CAN'T handle what people say
- The Bad Cat is 8 ohm and 100 watts at 8 ohms is different than 100 watts at 16 ohm
- People just don't crank their amp when they own these
Click to expand...
It's pretty widely accepted that the 70th Anniversary G12H30's can handle almost twice their continuous RMS rating. That said a tube amp cranked up well into poweramp distortion can far exceed its rated output wattage. I wouldn't do it.

I have two 30 watt Heritage G12H 55hz, and love them. They're mixed in a 4x12 with two Fane AXA12. It's an amazing warm, and vintage voiced cab rated at 120 watts all told. I have cranked my old Mesa Tremoverb into that cab many times, and it handled it like a champ. Otoh no way would I crank my 150 watt Matamp, or my Hiwatt DR103 into it without using an attenuator to shave down a little output. The Fanes would be OK, but I would constantly be waiting for the G12H's to shit the bed.
 
Wattage ratings of amps are often marketing BS and most speakers can handle much more than their rated for
 
Are you thinking of picking up
D-Rock said:
Not uncommon for combo amps to have lower rated speakers than the amp's wattage.
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Yeah. One of the more common reasons for speaker swaps. Worried about running out of headroom on your 100 watt or Coliseum Boogie Combo? Upgrade to the EVM12L and you get to hear what your amp really sounds like cranked, vs what your speaker sounds like getting its ass kicked.
 
rsm said:
I wouldn't expect a cab to handle more than what it's rated; but if a cab is rated at 8 ohms, and you run a 16 ohm signal into it, that power should be cut in half...
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This is only true for a solidstate amp without a power transformer, a tube amp (or solidstate amp with an output transformer like a mcintosh av amp) will output the same power at all impedances.

Regarding the last statement of "people don't crank them" that is somewhat true, remember that volume vs power is logarithmic so double the loudness requires 10 times the power, most of us are only using a few watts of the 50, 100 watts in reality when we're playing which is why we tend to not burn up lower powered speakers with higher powered amps with a good volume control.

All that being said I ran a 2x12 with G12M 25 watt speakers with a bunch of 100w,120w amps with no issues but I also sit right in front of my speaker cabinet when I play so I don't really crank them up that loud so it depends mostly on what you're doing with it. Cranking an old Marshall style amp? yeah probably going to blow the speakers, with an EVH 5150 at a reasonable volume, probably not.
 
Kagami said:
This is only true for a solidstate amp without a power transformer, a tube amp (or solidstate amp with an output transformer like a mcintosh av amp) will output the same power at all impedances.

Regarding the last statement of "people don't crank them" that is somewhat true, remember that volume vs power is logarithmic so double the loudness requires 10 times the power, most of us are only using a few watts of the 50, 100 watts in reality when we're playing which is why we tend to not burn up lower powered speakers with higher powered amps with a good volume control.

All that being said I ran a 2x12 with G12M 25 watt speakers with a bunch of 100w,120w amps with no issues but I also sit right in front of my speaker cabinet when I play so I don't really crank them up that loud so it depends mostly on what you're doing with it. Cranking an old Marshall style amp? yeah probably going to blow the speakers, with an EVH 5150 at a reasonable volume, probably not.
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My understanding if the speaker impedance is higher (e.g., 16 ohms) , it will put more load on the tube amp output (e.g., 8 ohms), reducing the amps output to, and the volume from, the speaker.


edit: and if it's a solid state amp they usually don't have an output transformer, and 8 ohm amp into a 16 ohm speaker could potentially damage output transistors at high volumes.
 
I don't think it is related but... Celestion told me speakers can handle twice what they are rated. But they won't last very long.

I try to use at least double what the amp is rated. I have blown several speakers over the decades.
 
Looking at 60w 212 on EVH website they say 60w handling, not 100w. They also recommend the 412 for the 100w head, not a 60w 212. So, not super sure where people are saying that they can or at least cranked safely. 🤷‍♀️ If my last post was cryptic; If a tube amp has a headphone jack it should also have... Which would explain a 30w speaker connected to a 50w amp. Or at least I figure it's probably the reasoning.
 
Maybe they are just lying about the capacity of the speaker. It does sound different than 30w speaker.
 
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