Ceriatone Chupacabra effects loop/tone changes?

[ledvedder]

A tube buffered loop is the way to go, it's like $20 in parts, the labor will be more of course if you have someone do it, but it is the ultimate solution.

How do I do this?

 

[fusedbrain]

Sounds great!

I wonder if they could make a board where the jacks are 1" apart, instead of 1 1/2"?

I wonder if Nik can drill his chassis' with the damn send and return holes 1 & 1/2" apart

I don't think the Metro guys are gonna re-work the PCB for ya. You might get one with no soldered jacks, but that's probably about it. If the Ceriatone buffered FX board is any good, that would be the easiest solution.
I'm going to try and get my Ceriatone build done in the next day or 2, so I can test out their buffered loop add-on board and I'll let you know how it goes. This last week has been crazy busy....

Does ceriatone offer an internal loop add-on board? If so, I wasn't aware of that. The only things Nik has mentioned are the external units (Klein-ulator and C-later).

Yes, on the website under accessories: http://www.ceriatone.com/mod-buffered-loop-switch/
The kit for $40.00 comes with the board already built, 2 jacks and a switch. The $75 is to have one put in an amp he's building for you.
You'll notice in the pics, he's got it mounted on 1 standoff on the lower left of the board, and then a little silicone to stabilize it to the main PCB. As the board does not have the jacks soldered to it, it can be mounted many different ways with a little ingenuity.
As I mentioned earlier, I have one of these in a box in the shop, but I haven't installed it yet, and I have no idea how good it is. He probably tried to clone the Metro one Has to be better than his insert loop.....
I ordered this when I realised there was pretty much no way I was going to fit a Metro board into the amp i'm building. I have a Metro board here as well to try, and believe me, I tried to make it work.
By the way, the amp I'm trying to get finished started as a Ceriatone AFD35 50watt kit, but I've made a few changes to the circuit

 

[paulyc]

A tube buffered loop is the way to go, it's like $20 in parts, the labor will be more of course if you have someone do it, but it is the ultimate solution.

How do I do this?

There are schematics on the 'net, or there's a good one in Tom Mitchell's book How to Service Your Tube Amp for Marshall style amps, but because of the Jose style master it's placement may need to be altered...I'm sure Scott could speak to this.

 

[ledvedder]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

 

[ledvedder]

I emailed Nik at Ceriatone about the effects loop and this was his response.

"The metro type loop doesn’t work so well in this amp, unless you move the position of MV, so it needs some mods."

i have to disagree with Nik. Perhaps he was trying and old version loop and was inserting it in the wrong spot. Between the treble wiper and the PI is where it needs to be on a Jose type tonestack. Both the Yeti and Chupa are based on Jose Master volume circuits. The Brad run CCV's and Atomicas uses the metro loop. I have used it in builds with zero loss. email George at Metro and he will confirm. The boards have adjustable send levels so you can tune it. Most of the amps that Nik has based his amps on I doubt he's even had on his bench. I'll make a video in a bit to show how transparent it is in a Jose style amp

This is George's response from Metroamps - "Hot rodded plexi values, extra gain stage, diode clipping. Very odd master volume before the tone stack. This is a Jose thing.

No reason the loop won't work. But might be better with a separate MV placed after the loop. Like a send level and a return level."

 

[scottosan]

I emailed Nik at Ceriatone about the effects loop and this was his response.

"The metro type loop doesn’t work so well in this amp, unless you move the position of MV, so it needs some mods."

i have to disagree with Nik. Perhaps he was trying and old version loop and was inserting it in the wrong spot. Between the treble wiper and the PI is where it needs to be on a Jose type tonestack. Both the Yeti and Chupa are based on Jose Master volume circuits. The Brad run CCV's and Atomicas uses the metro loop. I have used it in builds with zero loss. email George at Metro and he will confirm. The boards have adjustable send levels so you can tune it. Most of the amps that Nik has based his amps on I doubt he's even had on his bench. I'll make a video in a bit to show how transparent it is in a Jose style amp

This is George's response from Metroamps - "Hot rodded plexi values, extra gain stage, diode clipping. Very odd master volume before the tone stack. This is a Jose thing.

No reason the loop won't work. But might be better with a separate MV placed after the loop. Like a send level and a return level."

I do use a 1M return volume pot, but it's not necessary.

 

[ledvedder]

I emailed Nik at Ceriatone about the effects loop and this was his response.

"The metro type loop doesn’t work so well in this amp, unless you move the position of MV, so it needs some mods."

i have to disagree with Nik. Perhaps he was trying and old version loop and was inserting it in the wrong spot. Between the treble wiper and the PI is where it needs to be on a Jose type tonestack. Both the Yeti and Chupa are based on Jose Master volume circuits. The Brad run CCV's and Atomicas uses the metro loop. I have used it in builds with zero loss. email George at Metro and he will confirm. The boards have adjustable send levels so you can tune it. Most of the amps that Nik has based his amps on I doubt he's even had on his bench. I'll make a video in a bit to show how transparent it is in a Jose style amp

This is George's response from Metroamps - "Hot rodded plexi values, extra gain stage, diode clipping. Very odd master volume before the tone stack. This is a Jose thing.

No reason the loop won't work. But might be better with a separate MV placed after the loop. Like a send level and a return level."

I do use a 1M return volume pot, but it's not necessary.

The metro loop already has a send level pot, correct? What issues might I encounter without a return level pot?

 

[scottosan]

I emailed Nik at Ceriatone about the effects loop and this was his response.

"The metro type loop doesn’t work so well in this amp, unless you move the position of MV, so it needs some mods."

i have to disagree with Nik. Perhaps he was trying and old version loop and was inserting it in the wrong spot. Between the treble wiper and the PI is where it needs to be on a Jose type tonestack. Both the Yeti and Chupa are based on Jose Master volume circuits. The Brad run CCV's and Atomicas uses the metro loop. I have used it in builds with zero loss. email George at Metro and he will confirm. The boards have adjustable send levels so you can tune it. Most of the amps that Nik has based his amps on I doubt he's even had on his bench. I'll make a video in a bit to show how transparent it is in a Jose style amp

This is George's response from Metroamps - "Hot rodded plexi values, extra gain stage, diode clipping. Very odd master volume before the tone stack. This is a Jose thing.

No reason the loop won't work. But might be better with a separate MV placed after the loop. Like a send level and a return level."

I do use a 1M return volume pot, but it's not necessary.

The metro loop already has a send level pot, correct? What issues might I encounter without a return level pot?

it has a send trimmer. I've tried it with and and without the return pot and yield same results. That said, I like to use the return pot as a master volume on my channel switchers.

 

[ledvedder]

it has a send trimmer. I've tried it with and and without the return pot and yield same results. That said, I like to use the return pot as a master volume on my channel switchers.

That's good to know. Is the return pot easy to add?

 

[CrazyNutz]

The metro loop will work, as Scott has said. If it needs tweaking there are few resistors that can be played with on the board. But it really should work just fine stock.

As for the jack spacing problem just remove the jacks from the metro loop board, and use wire leads from the board to the jacks. You will have to get crafty to support the board, but should not be too much of a problem.

 

[FourT6and2]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

 

[CrazyNutz]

That's good to know. Is the return pot easy to add?

the return pot is a 1Meg. The out pad on the loop goes to the right lug of the return pot (if looking at the back of the pot) the left lug grounds to the chassis (or preamp ground bus, i find the chassis works fine) the center lug is your new output from the loop that will go to the input of the PI


This is how you would hook up, the bypass switch, and return pot

 

[ledvedder]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

 

[FourT6and2]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

 

[ledvedder]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

If I unplug send, I get no sound. If I unplug return, the sound stays low and muddy.

 

[scottosan]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

If I unplug send, I get no sound. If I unplug return, the sound stays low and muddy.

can yu take a pic of how it's wired?

 

[ledvedder]

Here you go. The right is the return.

 

[FourT6and2]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

If I unplug send, I get no sound. If I unplug return, the sound stays low and muddy.

No. I mean unplug BOTH when you are testing the amp with nothing in the loop. Don't just unplug one or the other. If you want to hear the amp with the loop out of the circuit, then unplug both the send and the return.

 

[ledvedder]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

If I unplug send, I get no sound. If I unplug return, the sound stays low and muddy.

No. I mean unplug BOTH when you are testing the amp with nothing in the loop. Don't just unplug one or the other. If you want to hear the amp with the loop out of the circuit, then unplug both the send and the return.

It's fine when nothing is plugged in.

 

[FourT6and2]

Here's a video of the effects loop with 1 pedal plugged in and out.

https://youtu.be/A-OA0eImtLA

What are you doing to switch between the pedal in the loop and out of the loop? Are you plugging/unplugging both FX loop send and return jacks? Just turning the pedal on off? What?

I have 5 of these amps. None of them do what your video shows. The amp sounds the same with a delay pedal in the loop or not. Maybe a tiny bit of high-end loss due to extra capacitance from the cables but that's it. No volume change. No drastic treble loss.

The volume/treble drop happens when I plug the cable into the send jack.

Have you tried it by unplugging both cables: send and return?

If I unplug send, I get no sound. If I unplug return, the sound stays low and muddy.

No. I mean unplug BOTH when you are testing the amp with nothing in the loop. Don't just unplug one or the other. If you want to hear the amp with the loop out of the circuit, then unplug both the send and the return.

It's fine when nothing is plugged in.

Right, this is an insert loop. You can't have something plugged into only one jack and expect it to work properly.