Chinese Suhrs!!??!

[steve_k]

Chuhr

 

[headlessdeadguy]

 

[Alex Stanley]

Why would anyone even want to support such a company that participates in illegal copyright infringement? I wouldn't give these assholes a dime!

This.

I'll second the motion. I'll also add that no way in hell is a $400.00 rip off of a Suhr going to sound sound, play, or feel like the real thing. I've alo played Chibsons and they suck. Period. They can never be compared to a real Gibson in any department. And I'd love to see a $4k Gibson with poor binding, bad frets, and orange peel paint.

How about a brand new Les Paul with crooked tuners?

Or fancy fret filing, thrown in for free.

 

[LWD]

The binding over the fret edges is bad enough.

 

[maxguitars]

Description
ALL GUITAR IS MADE IN CHINA
We is a joint venture between a couple of guitar collectors who both share a passion for rock and roll music and the instruments used to make that music. Fortunately the two of us have been able to afford to buy the best examples of these instruments we could find. Many are one off, celebrity owned, and unique. And yes, we own a lot of guitars-together we are closing in on the 2,000 mark. But we have decided it is time to share our the fruits of our passion with other likewise smitten players and collectors, so please keep checking our stock for more unbelievable pieces.

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About Us
10S Guitar Custom,the various design of the electric guitar from Beijing in China.we offer many advanced wood and have the impressive profound characteristics such as a variety of the wonderful wood,accumulated more than 85 years or even two hundred years.

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JAR JAR BINKS STARTED A GUITAR COMPANY??????

 

[spliffsperlunk]

^^LOL!

 

[jcj]

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

I wouldn't personally be a buyer for a 10k Les Paul, but I think it's a slightly different situation than a $400 Suhr knockoff.

 

[Doughboy]

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

I wouldn't personally be a buyer for a 10k Les Paul, but I think it's a slightly different situation than a $400 Suhr knockoff.

But technically, a knock off is illegal & unethical, regardless of price.

Having said that, Gibson charging $4000 for a piece of crap Les Paul is pretty unethical as well.

 

[eco70777]

Chuhr

ahahhahahhahahahhaha

When they make a Tom Anderchon, count me in

 

[tak]

Chuhr

ahahhahahhahahahhaha

When they make a Tom Anderchon, count me in

What do you mean "when"? Order one today!

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?cat ... m+Anderson

 

[jcj]

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

I wouldn't personally be a buyer for a 10k Les Paul, but I think it's a slightly different situation than a $400 Suhr knockoff.

But technically, a knock off is illegal & unethical, regardless of price.

Having said that, Gibson charging $4000 for a piece of crap Les Paul is pretty unethical as well.

The unethical part (for me) has to do with intent.

No one is making or purchasing a 10k hand made Les Paul copy to pass off as an R9 on eBay; you can't say the same about the mass produced $400 "Suhr".

An analogy- a counterfeit bill being sold for 20% of face value has potential to do a lot of damage to an economy; a counterfeit bill being sold for double face value, not so much.

As far as Gibson charging 5k+ for their LPs, that's just business; they're a for profit company, and charge what the market will bear. No issue for me; I don't like their price, I don't buy their guitar.

 

[ejecta]

The unethical part (for me) has to do with intent.

No one is making or purchasing a 10k hand made Les Paul copy to pass off as an R9 on eBay; you can't say the same about the mass produced $400 "Suhr".

Stealing Gibson's LP design is still theft regardless if you try sell it as something it's not or are upfront about it.

 

[jcj]

The unethical part (for me) has to do with intent.

No one is making or purchasing a 10k hand made Les Paul copy to pass off as an R9 on eBay; you can't say the same about the mass produced $400 "Suhr".

Stealing Gibson's LP design is still theft regardless if you try sell it as something it's not or are upfront about it.

By definition, sure, you're correct; the design is absolutely Gibson's property.

However, if you're trying to tell me that you see absolute parity between these two situations, you live in a far more morally absolute world than I.

As a rule, I try and use a less black and white filter.

Interesting discussion, for sure.

I definitely feel for anyone ripped off by all the fakes proliferating these days.

 

[mooncobra]

http://www.tradetang.com/wholesale+suhr_c220507/2.html

its amazing how many Suhr knockoffs they make!!

 

[ejecta]

The unethical part (for me) has to do with intent.

No one is making or purchasing a 10k hand made Les Paul copy to pass off as an R9 on eBay; you can't say the same about the mass produced $400 "Suhr".

Stealing Gibson's LP design is still theft regardless if you try sell it as something it's not or are upfront about it.

By definition, sure, you're correct; the design is absolutely Gibson's property.

However, if you're trying to tell me that you see absolute parity between these two situations, you live in a far more morally absolute world than I.

As a rule, I try and use a less black and white filter.

Interesting discussion, for sure.

I definitely feel for anyone ripped off by all the fakes proliferating these days.

Yeah I see the difference in that one is trying to pass itself off as the real thing and one not so much but both are stealing designs like we said. I do though find it hard to believe that anyone would be so naive to think they can get a Suhr for $400 but people can be foolish for sure.

For there to be right or wrong ie truth there has to be black and white.... you have to deal in absolutes. I try to live a moral life but like most I do a decent job at it and at times I play around in the grey areas. I think it's good to try and hold ourselves to higher standards outside our own wants or selfishness.

 

[petethorn]

Why would anyone even want to support such a company that participates in illegal copyright infringement? I wouldn't give these assholes a dime!

If after playing one I found that I couldn't really tell much difference that mattered to me between say a real Les Paul & a Chinese knockoff except for maybe pickups, I would buy the knockoff no problem.

It would also have to look spot on to what the real deal looks like including headstock shape, decal etc....

Is a much better quality Gil Yaron Les Paul for $10,000 any less of a douchebag buy just because it's not a cheap Chinese knock off.........the Yaron is a total Gibson Les Paul copyright infringement knock off as well.....he just writes GilYaron on the headstock in the Gibson font........what's the difference in morals here? Gibson is still being totally infringed upon.....

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

That's bullshit- for this reason

The Yaron is a phenomenal guitar, that while is TECHNICALLY infringing on Gibson's trademarked body shape, is not ever going to be mistaken or passed off for a Gibson- because it doesn't have the same headstock and logo as a Gibson. It is a replica for all the right reasons- the fucking TONE and playability and correct 50's specs. Made for people who give a shit about and can recognize such things, and are obsessed with them. Once again, no one will ever be duped or fooled or conned by these guitars. They are made for one reason- to recreate in exacting detail what we love about 50's Les Pauls, and can't get to our satisfaction from any other modern instrument.

The Chinese knock off is meant to buy you cred- with others and yourself- to fool people or even fool yourself into thinking that you have a "Gibson", and that you should feel good about the fact that you got a "Gibson" for $500 or whatever. It's made for ALL the wrong reasons. Buying one means you are into labels and image above quality or tone. Seriously, think about it... try one if you can, don't take my word for it- They suck, period. They don't even look close to real either, which is the irony. I've seen and played some, and they are a joke. If you order one thinking you are going to get some awesome satisfactory experience for cheap, you will be sorely disappointed.

IMHO of course.

Visit the Suhr factory, and see and meet the people involved in building those instruments, the R&D and craftsmanship and materials involved, the care and expertise put into building them.... and then tell me you'll be happy with a Chinese knock-off. If you can still say you would be, well then maybe you should move to China too....

 

[lespaul6]

Why would anyone even want to support such a company that participates in illegal copyright infringement? I wouldn't give these assholes a dime!

If after playing one I found that I couldn't really tell much difference that mattered to me between say a real Les Paul & a Chinese knockoff except for maybe pickups, I would buy the knockoff no problem.

It would also have to look spot on to what the real deal looks like including headstock shape, decal etc....

Is a much better quality Gil Yaron Les Paul for $10,000 any less of a douchebag buy just because it's not a cheap Chinese knock off.........the Yaron is a total Gibson Les Paul copyright infringement knock off as well.....he just writes GilYaron on the headstock in the Gibson font........what's the difference in morals here? Gibson is still being totally infringed upon.....

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

That's bullshit- for this reason

The Yaron is a phenomenal guitar, that while is TECHNICALLY infringing on Gibson's trademarked body shape, is not ever going to be mistaken or passed off for a Gibson- because it doesn't have the same headstock and logo as a Gibson. It is a replica for all the right reasons- the fucking TONE and playability and correct 50's specs. Made for people who give a shit about and can recognize such things, and are obsessed with them. Once again, no one will ever be duped or fooled or conned by these guitars. They are made for one reason- to recreate in exacting detail what we love about 50's Les Pauls, and can't get to our satisfaction from any other modern instrument.

The Chinese knock off is meant to buy you cred- with others and yourself- to fool people or even fool yourself into thinking that you have a "Gibson", and that you should feel good about the fact that you got a "Gibson" for $500 or whatever. It's made for ALL the wrong reasons. Buying one means you are into labels and image above quality or tone. Seriously, think about it... try one if you can, don't take my word for it- They suck, period. They don't even look close to real either, which is the irony. I've seen and played some, and they are a joke. If you order one thinking you are going to get some awesome satisfactory experience for cheap, you will be sorely disappointed.

IMHO of course.

Visit the Suhr factory, and see and meet the people involved in building those instruments, the R&D and craftsmanship and materials involved, the care and expertise put into building them.... and then tell me you'll be happy with a Chinese knock-off. If you can still say you would be, well then maybe you should move to China too....

I think this is a great defense for the Chinese to begin making more expensive copies that adhere more closely to the "materials..care.. and expertise" of the originals however under cut the price based on labor cost alone.

 

[Doughboy]

Why would anyone even want to support such a company that participates in illegal copyright infringement? I wouldn't give these assholes a dime!

If after playing one I found that I couldn't really tell much difference that mattered to me between say a real Les Paul & a Chinese knockoff except for maybe pickups, I would buy the knockoff no problem.

It would also have to look spot on to what the real deal looks like including headstock shape, decal etc....

Is a much better quality Gil Yaron Les Paul for $10,000 any less of a douchebag buy just because it's not a cheap Chinese knock off.........the Yaron is a total Gibson Les Paul copyright infringement knock off as well.....he just writes GilYaron on the headstock in the Gibson font........what's the difference in morals here? Gibson is still being totally infringed upon.....

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

That's bullshit- for this reason

The Yaron is a phenomenal guitar, that while is TECHNICALLY infringing on Gibson's trademarked body shape, is not ever going to be mistaken or passed off for a Gibson- because it doesn't have the same headstock and logo as a Gibson. It is a replica for all the right reasons- the fucking TONE and playability and correct 50's specs. Made for people who give a shit about and can recognize such things, and are obsessed with them. Once again, no one will ever be duped or fooled or conned by these guitars. They are made for one reason- to recreate in exacting detail what we love about 50's Les Pauls, and can't get to our satisfaction from any other modern instrument.

The Chinese knock off is meant to buy you cred- with others and yourself- to fool people or even fool yourself into thinking that you have a "Gibson", and that you should feel good about the fact that you got a "Gibson" for $500 or whatever. It's made for ALL the wrong reasons. Buying one means you are into labels and image above quality or tone. Seriously, think about it... try one if you can, don't take my word for it- They suck, period. They don't even look close to real either, which is the irony. I've seen and played some, and they are a joke. If you order one thinking you are going to get some awesome satisfactory experience for cheap, you will be sorely disappointed.

IMHO of course.

Visit the Suhr factory, and see and meet the people involved in building those instruments, the R&D and craftsmanship and materials involved, the care and expertise put into building them.... and then tell me you'll be happy with a Chinese knock-off. If you can still say you would be, well then maybe you should move to China too....

Please don't even use Suhr & Gibson in the same sentence. Suhr is an amazing company that makes the highest quality instruments for a fair price. Gibson sells low grade junk at premium prices.

 

[ejecta]

Why would anyone even want to support such a company that participates in illegal copyright infringement? I wouldn't give these assholes a dime!

If after playing one I found that I couldn't really tell much difference that mattered to me between say a real Les Paul & a Chinese knockoff except for maybe pickups, I would buy the knockoff no problem.

It would also have to look spot on to what the real deal looks like including headstock shape, decal etc....

Is a much better quality Gil Yaron Les Paul for $10,000 any less of a douchebag buy just because it's not a cheap Chinese knock off.........the Yaron is a total Gibson Les Paul copyright infringement knock off as well.....he just writes GilYaron on the headstock in the Gibson font........what's the difference in morals here? Gibson is still being totally infringed upon.....

There is no difference other than the Yaron buys you forum cred.

That's bullshit- for this reason

The Yaron is a phenomenal guitar, that while is TECHNICALLY infringing on Gibson's trademarked body shape, is not ever going to be mistaken or passed off for a Gibson- because it doesn't have the same headstock and logo as a Gibson. It is a replica for all the right reasons- the fucking TONE and playability and correct 50's specs. Made for people who give a shit about and can recognize such things, and are obsessed with them. Once again, no one will ever be duped or fooled or conned by these guitars. They are made for one reason- to recreate in exacting detail what we love about 50's Les Pauls, and can't get to our satisfaction from any other modern instrument.

The Chinese knock off is meant to buy you cred- with others and yourself- to fool people or even fool yourself into thinking that you have a "Gibson", and that you should feel good about the fact that you got a "Gibson" for $500 or whatever. It's made for ALL the wrong reasons. Buying one means you are into labels and image above quality or tone. Seriously, think about it... try one if you can, don't take my word for it- They suck, period. They don't even look close to real either, which is the irony. I've seen and played some, and they are a joke. If you order one thinking you are going to get some awesome satisfactory experience for cheap, you will be sorely disappointed.

IMHO of course.

Visit the Suhr factory, and see and meet the people involved in building those instruments, the R&D and craftsmanship and materials involved, the care and expertise put into building them.... and then tell me you'll be happy with a Chinese knock-off. If you can still say you would be, well then maybe you should move to China too....

I hear ya and I think you are reading more into, what was from my perspective, a tongue in cheek comment that was sprinkled with a good bit of truth.

Stealing a design is stealing a design and it's wrong. Period. Your intent on what you do with that creation of an existing design at that point is irrelevant. You've already crossed the line. Yes you can further cross that line by trying to sell at as the "real thing" but that doesn't make stealing the design from the get go any less wrong. I'm a designer by trade and stealing other peoples ideas and designs is very wrong in my field and wrong period. Even making just minor changes to existing designs is looked at at best as being very lazy. I could give two shits less if someone could take my design and build a better version.... it's stealing.

As to the Yaron LP knock off.... if you think guitar players, let alone the rest of crowd, that have seen you play in arenas, clubs, theaters aren't fooled in thinking you are playing a Gibson Les Paul then I don't know what to say but I'd bet my house they are. I get it... the Yaron is a very very fine instrument made by a very good builder. I also get that he makes very very minor tweaks to the headstock. But he puts his name that starts with a "G" and ends in "on" in the Gibson font and puts the name "Les Paul" in the Les Paul font. Come on man.... seriously? If it wasn't at least to a large degree about the image of playing a Les Paul then more people would buy his original designs that sound and play just as good as his LP knock offs..... which I concede you have. Still that's proof from my perspective that it IS a lot about image.

I'm not a big fan of the Gibson company but I can see why they don't like it. Gibson not building a good Les Paul anymore but Gil doing so doesn't justify it nor does the argument that it doesn't hurt Gibson financially in a large way.

These Suhr knock offs are just as wrong and they are doing something else wrong by selling them as a Suhr. Yes I get at least Gil isn't doing that.... as if that really makes a difference.

What's ironic to me is working musicians like yourself and the ones you work for are very pissed about downloading and rightfully so. Fact is there is no difference. Theft is theft.

Just so you know.... I think you are a very talented player who has great taste in gear. You work hard at your craft and are very generous with your help and input on forums and free lessons. You have my total respect in those regards. We just don't see eye to eye on this and that's fine.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

You always see double standards exhibited on internet forums to some degree where high quality knockoffs are "permitted" and low end copies are demonized.