Clean to Mean Rack Tones 12/27/25

[Anje]

Nice rehearsal place

 

[Dave L]

always interesting to remember the quality of these legendary studio units reflected in original prices. $3k for the H3k, $2.5k for the pcm 80 with $400 upcharge each for the dual fx and pitch fx cards, $2k for the tc 2290 + $400-$1000 for memory expansion boards and $400 for the 0144 foot controller.

$10k in the 90s equates to $25k in today’s money = why i didn’t own this stuff back then!

with pedals and plug ins being so affordable and convenient i totally get the shift away from the rack stuff. but what you can never accurately express to folks or convince them of without hearing and feeling it first hand is the difference in the experience and enjoyment factor you get from the real stuff.

I´ve thought about this as well, more so fifteen years ago when even the high-end rack stuff was much cheaper on the used market than today. I distinctly remember looking at the original list prices for the GTR4000 when I bought two for the whopping total of 1500 bucks, it was shockingly expensive new and here I was chucking two of them into a guitar rack for amateur home use

 

[mentoneman]

made some progress today

yanked the spx 900 to make room for the eventide, reconfigured the spacing between units for better ventilation, installed sliding pedal tray, built the XLR to TS adapter cables for the H3K…

still have to make the new cables runs to the pedal tray and sort through midi connections and sends/returns to the rack interface and mixer.

hoping i can make some noise with this thing in the next few days!

 

[Dave L]

Yeah, some extra air space probably isn´t a bad idea. The PCM80 doesn´t generate as much heat as the 3000 and the VHT, but is prone to overheating without clearance for the vents. At least some of them, my old one included.

Coming along splendidly, by the way, it´s gonna sound great.

 

[mentoneman]

I´ve thought about this as well, more so fifteen years ago when even the high-end rack stuff was much cheaper on the used market than today. I distinctly remember looking at the original list prices for the GTR4000 when I bought two for the whopping total of 1500 bucks, it was shockingly expensive new and here I was chucking two of them into a guitar rack for amateur home use

i hear you. i think the best deals i ever saw were $500 for a 2290 and $650 for a H3000.

i got my pcm80 for $400, paid an additional $200 for a version upgrade eprom/42 sec memory ram upgrade/battery compartment .
later scored a combo deal on pitch & dual fx cards for $50 each.

 

[Dave L]

Yeah, there sure were deals to be had and you could try just about anything out without busting the bank completely. Got my H3000 and that PCM80 with both pitch and dual cards in the same deal for about $1300. Not cheap, exactly, but seeing what they cost originally and what they sell for today it was nothing to complain about. Wasn´t an extraordinary deal at the time, either! If you see my rack today it must look like I plowed a fortune into it, but things weren´t always quite like that... I certainly wouldn´t build the same rig now and I´m happy I did most of my serious shopping way back.

 

[mentoneman]

Yeah, some extra air space probably isn´t a bad idea. The PCM80 doesn´t generate as much heat as the 3000 and the VHT, but is prone to overheating without clearance for the vents. At least some of them, my old one included.

Coming along splendidly, by the way, it´s gonna sound great.

i learned about the importance of air gaps between units the hard way.

this is the back of the PA rack i was responsible for at our church. i demanded the designers construct a knock out panel in the side of the recessed sound booth so that i could access the back of the PA sidecar rack.

we has a BSS soundweb digital system processor to handle zone distribution, delay alignment, crossovers, room tuning eq, etc.

one day the system started misbehaving and i couldn’t get sound to some of the ancillary zones like the mother’s room, green room, lobby, etc.
i noticed the remote interface called the jellyfish was locked and wouldn’t toggle the zones off and on like normal. when i touched the rack units they were scalding. everything in the rack had become cumulatively too hot to leave your hand on for more than a second.
the installers originally stacked everything together near the top of the racks for easier sight line/operation. after that little rodeo i reconfigured the units with air gaps and the issue never resurfaced. made it a practice ever since.

 

[eero]

made some progress today

yanked the spx 900 to make room for the eventide, reconfigured the spacing between units for better ventilation, installed sliding pedal tray, built the XLR to TS adapter cables for the H3K…

View attachment 441677
View attachment 441678

still have to make the new cables runs to the pedal tray and sort through midi connections and sends/returns to the rack interface and mixer.

hoping i can make some noise with this thing in the next few days!

nice rack! would love to hear clips when finished

 

[eero]

@mentoneman, what are the cables you are using with H3000? wire seems a little thin to me, maybe an optical effect?

 

[mentoneman]

@mentoneman, what are the cables you are using with H3000? wire seems a little thin to me, maybe an optical effect?

Mogami W2944 is ideal for the highest quality wiring of mixing consoles, rack panels, and studio equipment. It features XLPE (Cross-Linked Polyethylene) which has excellent electrical characteristics and prevents shrink-back during soldering. The served (spiral) shield provides easier cable termination and better sound quality than braided shield.

• Features:
  • Small size for space saving
  • Very flexible and easy to use
  • Ten colors available for easy identification
  • Same configuration as the core of our standard multi mic snake cable series (EZID models)
  • Additional drain wire makes wiring efficient, as it can be crimped by the same size crimp terminal, as the conductors

 

[Anje]

Agree on the key to ensure proper ventilation / heat management when racking things up.
The "can I keep the back of my fingers/hand on the front panels" sanity check after few hours of playing with everything on always is a quick easy way to make sure things are under control.

I also literally burnt down part of the original power supply of my SDE3000 years ago when it was in a packed 5U SKD roto rack. That's one of the limitations of SKD racks IMHO: they are compact and light but one of the downsides is you are not getting much space around the racked units.
You can't always keep a space between each unit (nor this is always required), but optimizing how units are stacked VS their respective depth & ventilation points + having at least enough space on the sides & back are key to ensure each unit is getting the cooling it needs and isn't getting too hot with everything else around it.

That's also one of the reasons why I usually keep power amps in separate racks; those are a major heat source = increased risk for the other units.
Makes for a much more portable & modular config too, and minimizes the EMC risks.

 

[Dave L]

That is very solid info, I think about it just the same way. Power amp outside, extra spaces for the really hot stuff (1/2U) and minding the relative depth on the rest that might need it.

 

[eero]

Mogami W2944 is ideal for the highest quality wiring of mixing consoles, rack panels, and studio equipment. It features XLPE (Cross-Linked Polyethylene) which has excellent electrical characteristics and prevents shrink-back during soldering. The served (spiral) shield provides easier cable termination and better sound quality than braided shield.

• Features:
  • Small size for space saving
  • Very flexible and easy to use
  • Ten colors available for easy identification
  • Same configuration as the core of our standard multi mic snake cable series (EZID models)
  • Additional drain wire makes wiring efficient, as it can be crimped by the same size crimp terminal, as the conductors

nice, thank you...I use mogami 2524

 

[mentoneman]

That is very solid info, I think about it just the same way. Power amp outside, extra spaces for the really hot stuff (1/2U) and minding the relative depth on the rest that might need it.

my live rig in the late 90s was an 8sp SKB wall to wall stuffer. 2 EV 1x12s to round out the package.
previous incarnation was alesis quad gt, se-50 and passac 8ch unity mixer into a marshall 50/50 easy bake power amp. been upgrading ever since!

skb is great for being light weight and molded plastic shell is more impervious to moisture/light drizzle when carting from car to venue but that’s about the only benefit. the housing flexes as you might be able to see on the bottom lip of the racks in the photo.
separate 4 sp rack for power amp weight distribution and heat. tone got alot better when i traded in the rivera for a 395.

 

[Anje]

Yep, I'm not a fan of the SKB racks for anything too heavy/fragile. In general 4u is the max to me for those.
Also talking about flexing, I had one flex in a major way by leaving it open and stacked with others on top; almost to the point one of the doors had trouble closing properly.

 

[mentoneman]

Yep, I'm not a fan of the SKB racks for anything too heavy/fragile. In general 4u is the max to me for those.
Also talking about flexing, I had one flex in a major way by leaving it open and stacked with others on top; almost to the point one of the doors had trouble closing properly.

my thing was i had to be able to fit and lug my own gear in and out of the car by myself so light weight was critical.
but mine had trouble latching the lids too!

 

[mentoneman]

 

[Anje]

my thing was i had to be able to fit and lug my own gear in and out of the car by myself so light weight was critical.
but mine had trouble latching the lids too!

Yes, that had to be compatible with a one man operation for me too!

Back in the days I was lugging around 4x12 stacks in flight cases by myself, had an old wagon where I could lift / tilt against the rear bumper and push / slide the cases in the trunk; but thoses days are long gone. Gotta be careful about the car and my back now

 

[mentoneman]

Yes, that had to be compatible with a one man operation for me too!

Back in the days I was lugging around 4x12 stacks in flight cases by myself, had an old wagon where I could lift / tilt against the rear bumper and push / slide the cases in the trunk; but thoses days are long gone. Gotta be careful about the car and my back now

Amen brother!

more on the mogami-

Brian S. built a rack for Sean Tubbs in the early 00’s that sounded incredible, but when i looked around back i was stunned.
for us rack warriors used to the bradshaw/friedman rigs it was a work of art and that was the first time i was exposed to his mogami wiring. super clean dressing, sonically pure and so much lighter than standard gtr cable outfitted racks. less rugged and a bit more fussy to solder but if you’re not planning to abuse your rig it is killer! if it’s good enough for Brian…

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...of-personal-stereo-w-d-w-guitar-rigs.2411874/

 

[SonVolt]

I drool over this stuff, but the cable management part is like... yeah, no. Back to the Fractal.