Cool Mode Trick

[ttosh]

You may already know this, but for those who do not it is a cool way to use 6 strings and 5 strings to have two starting places for your modes. Before you can do the below you need to know what modes are and how they work, but if you do give this a try, it is very cool.

Each mode starting from the 6 string perspective has a 5 string mode already to go. Say you are using C Major (Ionian) and you go to G (Mixolydian), well if you start on the A String and play to the end of G Mixolydian you have just played C Ionian and ended on the root of C as well an Octave up. Each mode holds this inner 5 string scale so it gives you two quick places to play each mode, a 6 string and it's 5 string alternative. Now each mode you can easily play any of the other modes, but this makes it simple since it is playing the exact mode just starting on the 5th string, try it out and find the others for yourself. I found this very cool.

 

[amiller]

Hmmm...I don't understand your post as written.

 

[ttosh]

Hmmm...I don't understand your post as written.

Put simply take G Mixolydian, you start on your Low E and run through all 6 strings to end the scale (mode) If you start on the fifth (A) string and run through it you are playing C Ionian, this is what I call a 5 string run instead of a six string run. Just a cool trick if you know that inside each 6 string section or block there is a 5 string block that starts on the A string it can sometimes kick start your fretboard knowledge. I am not sure how to simplify it any more than that, but if there is a specific question or a way I can explain it better ask and I will try.

6 G, A, B
5 C, D, E
4 F, G, A,
3 B, C, D
2 E, F, G
1 A, B, C


You can see if you do the run using the 5th string as your starting point it is C Ionain C- to the C octave. If you start on G you get a six string run and it is G Mixolydian. Anywhere you are playing G Mixo in any Key if you move to the 5th string you have a 5 string Ionian run. Just a trick to learn modes and the fretboard.

Maybe this seems, or is stupid, but I thought it was cool and worked for me to open some things up. This works for each mode, there is a 5 string mode within the 6 string mode, of course it is just notes, intervals, etc... but if you remember anywhere you are playing mixolydian for example ionian is right here as well as another example is A aeolian from the 6th string well D dorian is the 5 string run, C Ionian, well 5th String is E Phrygian, and on, this holds true no matter the key.

 

[just42dave]

or just know that g mixolydian is the 5th of Cmajor

 

[ttosh]

or just know that g mixolydian is the 5th of Cmajor

Yes that is simple, but for those beginning the above is a neat trick to not really make light of. I realize you are just making humor, but not everybody gets or knows all. I posted this as a neat way to help others learn the fretboard, but thanks for your wit, I am sure that will help others as well with wanting to post and visit this sub forum for information.

BTW just knowing that does not automatically let them derive 5 note per string runs, this serves two purposes one fretboard knowledge and two an easy way to move between modes from using 6 strings and 5 strings, etc... However I am done wasting my time trying to help at all since so far sarcasm seems to be more fitting eh...

If you actually applied what I said above you might understand what the meaning was, instead of showing how smart you are that you know the 5th of C Major. You should also show us your knowledge of the 3rd and 7th while you are at it.......

 

[amiller]

I'm sure he was just kid'n.

I was making what your were getting at too complicated. Now that you explained it again I understand where you're coming from.

Now, here's a little trick for you.

Play a three note per string F Maj scale pattern starting on the 6th string low F. That's F Ionian, of course. Now, move that EXACT pattern up to G. That pattern yields G Ionian, BUT, if you do not consider G as the root of that scale but instead use the F in that pattern as the root you now have F Dorian. In other words, you can use the same pattern to play all of the modes of a given scale just by moving up to the next scale tone BUT keeping the original tone as the key center.

 

[ttosh]

I'm sure he was just kid'n.

I was making what your were getting at too complicated. Now that you explained it again I understand where you're coming from.

Now, here's a little trick for you.

Play a three note per string F Maj scale pattern starting on the 6th string low F. That's F Ionian, of course. Now, move that EXACT pattern up to G. That pattern yields G Ionian, BUT, if you do not consider G as the root of that scale but instead use the F in that pattern as the root you now have F Dorian. In other words, you can use the same pattern to play all of the modes of a given scale just by moving up to the next scale tone BUT keeping the original tone as the key center.

I will mess with that one tonight, very cool as well. Basically to me is that all these types of things really help in overall fretboard knowledge and how to weave in and out of the modes for any given key based on chord progression. I know all the notes on the neck, but just learning based on pointing to a note was boring, so I used modes and other exercises to get there, then I paused from playing for quite a while for work and family and now am back to playing the last 2 years and feel like learning is easier for some reason. Which is the opposite of what I expected.

Thanks for the contribution. I did not mean to be a jerk to him btw, he was just being captain obvious and I want to share with those that know less than me and learn from those who know more than me, and his point was moot as my example had nothing to do with the 5th, it was an exercise to see how to take a 6 string run and by simply changing positions you have a 5 string run in a different mode that will be there no matter the key. I thought it would be handy in helping others take and add to their fretboard knowledge and mix it up.

Even if he was just kidding he could have added something to the conversation after his obvious comment. So far amiller I will say you have contributed a lot to this sub forum and I have already found a few things through your links and postings that have shown me a different way to approach something or a new thing for me altogether so kudos to you and thanks for contributing. This is why I asked for this sub forum to come back for us.

 

[racerevlon]

or just know that g mixolydian is the 5th of Cmajor

Um, isn't C Mixolydian the 5th of C Major? G Mixolydian starts on D. Or do I have my theory twisted?

Cheers,

 

[ttosh]

or just know that g mixolydian is the 5th of Cmajor

Um, isn't C Mixolydian the 5th of C Major? G Mixolydian starts on D. Or do I have my theory twisted?

Cheers,

C Major is

C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian

Think of it like this the Major chord or the I, III, V for C Major is C, E, G E being the 3rd and G being the 5th, flat the 3rd for a C Minor chord, add the 7th, etc....

So in short the 5th of C Major is G Mixolydian.

 

[Rogue]

Play a three note per string F Maj scale pattern starting on the 6th string low F. That's F Ionian, of course. Now, move that EXACT pattern up to G. That pattern yields G Ionian, BUT, if you do not consider G as the root of that scale but instead use the F in that pattern as the root you now have F Dorian. In other words, you can use the same pattern to play all of the modes of a given scale just by moving up to the next scale tone BUT keeping the original tone as the key center.

Wow. I knew this, but didn't know it!

Thanks a lot man.

 

[degenaro]

I'm sure he was just kid'n.

I was making what your were getting at too complicated. Now that you explained it again I understand where you're coming from.

Now, here's a little trick for you.

Play a three note per string F Maj scale pattern starting on the 6th string low F. That's F Ionian, of course. Now, move that EXACT pattern up to G. That pattern yields G Ionian, BUT, if you do not consider G as the root of that scale but instead use the F in that pattern as the root you now have F Dorian. In other words, you can use the same pattern to play all of the modes of a given scale just by moving up to the next scale tone BUT keeping the original tone as the key center.

Wrong direction...move G Ionian down a whole step to F and it's the same as G Dorian.

 

[degenaro]

You may already know this, but for those who do not it is a cool way to use 6 strings and 5 strings to have two starting places for your modes. Before you can do the below you need to know what modes are and how they work, but if you do give this a try, it is very cool.

Each mode starting from the 6 string perspective has a 5 string mode already to go. Say you are using C Major (Ionian) and you go to G (Mixolydian), well if you start on the A String and play to the end of G Mixolydian you have just played C Ionian and ended on the root of C as well an Octave up. Each mode holds this inner 5 string scale so it gives you two quick places to play each mode, a 6 string and it's 5 string alternative. Now each mode you can easily play any of the other modes, but this makes it simple since it is playing the exact mode just starting on the 5th string, try it out and find the others for yourself. I found this very cool.

And this why I think folks dabbling in modes get confused...FWIW you also have the 5 other modes that are inherent to each scale...BUT...in reality all you're doing with it is learning fretboard patterns, it has very little to do with any kind of application for modes. That's why I always preferred (learning and/or teaching) to just view it as key center...
I mean when you have Dm to G to C IMO it's so much easier to just "visualize" C major all over the neck and making sure to hit "good" notes than think...D dorian-G mixolydian- C ionian.

What I guess I'm saying is this...you have 2 master positions on guitar....one with the root on the 6th strinbg, the other on the 5th.
From there you can fill in ALL blanks...

 

[ttosh]

You may already know this, but for those who do not it is a cool way to use 6 strings and 5 strings to have two starting places for your modes. Before you can do the below you need to know what modes are and how they work, but if you do give this a try, it is very cool.

Each mode starting from the 6 string perspective has a 5 string mode already to go. Say you are using C Major (Ionian) and you go to G (Mixolydian), well if you start on the A String and play to the end of G Mixolydian you have just played C Ionian and ended on the root of C as well an Octave up. Each mode holds this inner 5 string scale so it gives you two quick places to play each mode, a 6 string and it's 5 string alternative. Now each mode you can easily play any of the other modes, but this makes it simple since it is playing the exact mode just starting on the 5th string, try it out and find the others for yourself. I found this very cool.

And this why I think folks dabbling in modes get confused...FWIW you also have the 5 other modes that are inherent to each scale...BUT...in reality all you're doing with it is learning fretboard patterns, it has very little to do with any kind of application for modes. That's why I always preferred (learning and/or teaching) to just view it as key center...
I mean when you have Dm to G to C IMO it's so much easier to just "visualize" C major all over the neck and making sure to hit "good" notes than think...D dorian-G mixolydian- C ionian.

What I guess I'm saying is this...you have 2 master positions on guitar....one with the root on the 6th strinbg, the other on the 5th.
From there you can fill in ALL blanks...

I totally agree. I see this as a way to help with fretboard patterns more than a way to work with modes, though I thought it was a cool trick and it helped me visualize a few things in my head differently and got me thinking differently so I wanted to share. This stuff never gets old to me and I wish I could retain more and have more time to study and play. BTW Ed thanks for taking time and sharing, your wisdom never gets old..... I just wish I knew a tenth of what you do!

 

[amiller]

...Wrong direction...move G Ionian down a whole step to F and it's the same as G Dorian.

Duh! Of course, you're absolutely right!

I'm like everyone else armed with just a "little" knowledge...DANGEROUS!

Thanks for the correction.

 

[shredhead7]

This post reminds me of my frustrations as a young guitarist. I took lessons for the first year of playing and had a fairly good instructor, in that he taught me the modes and how to read music, along with all of the shredding songs I was into then.

What was frustrating to me was that, even though I knew all of the modes (or patterns), and knew enough to move the Ionian to the key center, I didn't really get why. He couldn't explain it to me in the right way, so I never understood it. Reading these posts, makes me feel like that all over again. It's taking a very simple concept and making it very complicated. As a teacher, I understand the original posters intention. To the teacher, it's really easy, see look. But it really sounds like ancient Egyptian.

What finally broke the magic spell of modes to me was when I was a sophomore in college I took a piano class. The very first day we went through the c maj scale and the circle of fifths; everything clicked within those first ten minutes. I was elated to say the least. It was all SO simple that I just never saw the forest through the trees.

What I need to work on now is the tonality of actually playing modal, meaning playing a mode outside of the key center against a chord in the key center, to actually get its tonality (phrygian would be the most obvious) to jump out. A neat way that I read in GP a few months back, that Eric Johnson uses all of the time, is to create your own pentatonic scales from the modes. Instead of 1,3,4,5,7 (the standard blues pent), play only the 1,3,5,6,7 or 1,2,4,6,7 (any combo works and yields different results). Once you've learned your new pattern, learn all five patterns (five notes=five patterns). Lastly, you can substitute these new patterns over your existing pentatonic (blues that you first learned), or you can shift them up a second, so that the mixo mode is starting where the aeo mode should, and you get some really cool EJ sounding licks out of it. Thus, truly playing modal (tonality based) and not pattern (diatonic based).

 

[War Admiral]

This post reminds me of my frustrations as a young guitarist. I took lessons for the first year of playing and had a fairly good instructor, in that he taught me the modes and how to read music, along with all of the shredding songs I was into then.

What was frustrating to me was that, even though I knew all of the modes (or patterns), and knew enough to move the Ionian to the key center, I didn't really get why. He couldn't explain it to me in the right way, so I never understood it. Reading these posts, makes me feel like that all over again. It's taking a very simple concept and making it very complicated. As a teacher, I understand the original posters intention. To the teacher, it's really easy, see look. But it really sounds like ancient Egyptian.

What finally broke the magic spell of modes to me was when I was a sophomore in college I took a piano class. The very first day we went through the c maj scale and the circle of fifths; everything clicked within those first ten minutes. I was elated to say the least. It was all SO simple that I just never saw the forest through the trees.

What I need to work on now is the tonality of actually playing modal, meaning playing a mode outside of the key center against a chord in the key center, to actually get its tonality (phrygian would be the most obvious) to jump out. A neat way that I read in GP a few months back, that Eric Johnson uses all of the time, is to create your own pentatonic scales from the modes. Instead of 1,3,4,5,7 (the standard blues pent), play only the 1,3,5,6,7 or 1,2,4,6,7 (any combo works and yields different results). Once you've learned your new pattern, learn all five patterns (five notes=five patterns). Lastly, you can substitute these new patterns over your existing pentatonic (blues that you first learned), or you can shift them up a second, so that the mixo mode is starting where the aeo mode should, and you get some really cool EJ sounding licks out of it. Thus, truly playing modal (tonality based) and not pattern (diatonic based).

This is what I touched on here in another topic and was posted a while back. Its a very cool concept but I took it a little further...

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=72216

 

[shredhead7]

This is what I touched on here in another topic and was posted a while back. Its a very cool concept but I took it a little further...

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=72216

Just read through this post, very nice. My first experience with that concept was the 7th arp's in Dream Theater's Under a Glass moon solo, right in the beginning. From there I started doing it subconsciously, trying to emulate that sound, only with more manageable finger spreads. I never really thought of them as arpeggio's, just patterns of the pentatonic scale. I grew up on Yngwie in the 80's, so an arp is supposed to be something that you sweep.

I do wish that I had more knowledge of substitutions though (if that is the correct term) for replacing a diatonic mode with a mode that isn't, yielding some outside sounds. For now, I just add the chromatics in between (usually the blue notes).