Current 12AX7's: Clear, Low Noise: Go...

[braintheory]

What EL34's would you recommend for an Orange amp, the Rocker 30? Mine came stock with JJ E34L's and although I don't hate them (they don't drive me crazy either) I think it's time to try something different. I've seen a lot of love for the Winged C with this particular amp, but I'm not sure I like them. From the videos I was watching, it's more compressed, less tighter and lacks some lowend compared to other tubes. I also have Teslas on my radar, I have read very good things about them.

I haven’t tube rolled in orange amps, but I would actually say the complete opposite about Winged C’s. They are some of the tighter EL34’s IME and are pretty open with big low end, so if you want that quality I would go with Winged C’s. Tesla’s are also punchy, tight and open, but a little less so than winged c’s, but they have more midrange and warmth than Winged C’s probably since they’re older. The RFT, Siemens and Mullard EL34’s are also tight

For an orange amp I’d think I’d wanna play up their chewy low mid growl they tend to have, so I’d probably start with RFT’s, Bugle Boy’s or GEC/Mullard KT77’s if it were my amp, although those are rare and expensive tubes

 

[Racerxrated]

What EL34's would you recommend for an Orange amp, the Rocker 30? Mine came stock with JJ E34L's and although I don't hate them (they don't drive me crazy either) I think it's time to try something different. I've seen a lot of love for the Winged C with this particular amp, but I'm not sure I like them. From the videos I was watching, it's more compressed, less tighter and lacks some lowend compared to other tubes. I also have Teslas on my radar, I have read very good things about them.

As Sam ^^ said, go for some older Winged Cs ie not the 'new' reissues. As is with most reissue anything, they aren't the same. Pre 2008 Winged Cs or 90s Svetlanas are killer tubes and destroy any JJ for everything. Even low end.

 

[eloygperez]

@braintheory @Racerxrated Thanks for the recommendation.
There seem to be diverse opinions about these tubes on the internet...I'm not a tube expert so I can only judge from the few videos I was able to see. This is another opinion from an user who tested lots of EL34's in this amp:

They sound more classic. Strong midrange but less bass response as the 6CA7's.
They also feel less tight and more gainy/compressed in comparison.

In the videos I watched they lacked lowend compared to other tubes and sounded thinner. Loose low end instead of punchy.
Maybe they work well on a Rocker 30 due to its darker voicing, who knows.haha

In general I like punchy lows/chimey high end with a little scooped character. More open sound instead of compressed. JJ E34L's are sounding too flabby in the low end when the amp is pushed hard (I like MV maxed on this amp and use the gain knob as volume for crunchy/edge of breakup tones with single coils if it helps).

 

[eloygperez]

Is there any difference between some Winged C's manufactured in the late 90's with black logo and those who have it gray (both ones with ==C==)? I guess they're both the same tubes, just printed differently.

 

[analogsystem]

I usually track down a NOS RFT for V1, use whatever for V2 (EHX or Chinese usually) and Sovtek LPS for PI.
The RFTs are still available for $50-$75 and they last for many years so it’s worth it to me.

 

[braintheory]

I usually track down a NOS RFT for V1, use whatever for V2 (EHX or Chinese usually) and Sovtek LPS for PI.
The RFTs are still available for $50-$75 and they last for many years so it’s worth it to me.

RFT’s pre’s are killer. They are a close 2nd place to my Fivre’s and were #1 for a while before I discovered those

 

[braintheory]

@braintheory @Racerxrated Thanks for the recommendation.
There seem to be diverse opinions about these tubes on the internet...I'm not a tube expert so I can only judge from the few videos I was able to see. This is another opinion from an user who tested lots of EL34's in this amp:

In the videos I watched they lacked lowend compared to other tubes and sounded thinner. Loose low end instead of punchy.
Maybe they work well on a Rocker 30 due to its darker voicing, who knows.haha

In general I like punchy lows/chimey high end with a little scooped character. More open sound instead of compressed. JJ E34L's are sounding too flabby in the low end when the amp is pushed hard (I like MV maxed on this amp and use the gain knob as volume for crunchy/edge of breakup tones with single coils if it helps).

I think Winged C’s, Mullards or Siemens would all be great contenders for your criteria. The pre-Winged C Svetlana’s sound even better than the Winged C ones, but both are great. You might also like the Tesla’s

6CA7’s, since they were originally US tubes, sound a lot more hollowed out and scooped in the midrange, so that can make them come off thinner, but have a more extended low end actually and glassier, more extended high end, basically a more 6L6-like character. They can be cool, but I don’t use mine often. The extra low end can make them flubby in some amps, just depends

The vintage Mullard/GEC KT77’s are also great, but rare and pricy. They basically sound like their EL34 counterpart with the low and high mids emphasizes reversed. The recent made KT77’s like the JJ’s are different animals and I don’t like them

 

[eloygperez]

I think Winged C’s, Mullards or Siemens would all be great contenders for your criteria. The pre-Winged C Svetlana’s sound even better than the Winged C ones, but both are great. You might also like the Tesla’s

6CA7’s, since they were originally US tubes, sound a lot more hollowed out and scooped in the midrange, so that can make them come off thinner, but have a more extended low end actually and glassier, more extended high end, basically a more 6L6-like character. They can be cool, but I don’t use mine often. The extra low end can make them flubby in some amps, just depends

The vintage Mullard/GEC KT77’s are also great, but rare and pricy. They basically sound like their EL34 counterpart with the low and high mids emphasizes reversed. The recent made KT77’s like the JJ’s are different animals and I don’t like them

Thanks! Which ones are those "Pre-Winged C Svetlanas"?

 

[braintheory]

Thanks! Which ones are those "Pre-Winged C Svetlanas"?

Other guys know better than me, but one thing to look for is the saucer getters and the number label on them I think

 

[eloygperez]

Other guys know better than me, but one thing to look for is the saucer getters and the number label on them I think

I guess those ones will rarer, more expensive and difficult to find.haha

Are these any good? They're Winged C's manufactured in the late 90's. I have also seen the same tube with gray lettering and they appear to be identical.

 

[braintheory]

I guess those ones will rarer, more expensive and difficult to find.haha

Are these any good? They're Winged C's manufactured in the late 90's. I have also seen the same tube with gray lettering and they appear to be identical.
View attachment 270132

Others on here know better than me, but yeah should be good. Also, as much as I love to nerd out about tubes, I still find the differences to ultimately be usually subtle at the end of the day. It rarely would make or break my experience with a given amp, but I still like exploring what I can

 

[DanTravis62]

If those are the Chinese ones then they’re very good tubes. The only tubes I liked more (mentioned above) are rare, pricy stuff and I’m aware these are subtle differences at the end of the day that isn’t worth it to most guys

I agree, the differences are subtle but audible - and theres also a handful of very nice modern tubes

Mesa does a good job of matching compared to most brands, and I definitely trust them for PI slot and power tubes

 

[braintheory]

I agree, the differences are subtle but audible - and theres also a handful of very nice modern tubes

Mesa does a good job of matching compared to most brands, and I definitely trust them for PI slot and power tubes

Yeah I think like anything else it’s just how far you wanna go in the rabbit hole. I’ve found some modern tubes I really like too, especially the Genalex Gold Lion CV4004 Gold Pin and Mullard copy Psvane 5U4, but I still hear in them a more brittle, less rich/musical quality vs vintage tubes (being picky), but their voicing is pretty on point to me

 

[VonBonfire]

I’m not a huge fan of JJ tubes but the 803 is an excellent tube for V1. I always use a long plate.

I do like that particular JJ. The Genalex Gold Lion is nice too but quite a bit more cash to throw down for an amp I' would ham and egg a few nights per week with.

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah I think like anything else it’s just how far you wanna go in the rabbit hole. I’ve found some modern tubes I really like too, especially the Genalex Gold Lion CV4004 Gold Pin and Mullard copy Psvane 5U4, but I still hear in them a more brittle, less rich/musical quality vs vintage tubes (being picky), but their voicing is pretty on point to me

I agree, especially in the critical preamp tube spots I almost always use vintage/NOS stuff

At least for power tubes, PI, and loops though, I have no problem using modern stuff

NOS power tubes almost always last much, much longer though