Decision- Synergy or Axe fx iii

[rsm]

I've played some decent amp plug ins over the years but from a convenience standpoint, it takes up more time and tech skills to achieve good results.
I'd rather just plug into a Fractal and pull up my favorite preset and play. Far less time and BS involved.

With the PolyChromeDSP McRocklin Suite, I found the opposite. In the first version released, I found many factory presets that I liked, I made copies of them and tweaked them. Very few Fractal or Helix presets worked that easy for me. Since the 1.0 version, they've added many more features and presets, that I found usable, made copies and tweaked to make them sound better to me.

Listen to some of the presets, or download the free version and go through the presets. There are cleans, rhythms and lead tones; mostly modern and metal, with a few '80s in there.

 

[MetalThrasher]

You have a great setup ready for either! Both are good choices but if you're more a plug in and play person I would lean towards the Synergy. However, the Axe FX is great once you learn how to use it. There is a slight learning curve with the Axe FX but once you get the hang of it, it's awesome. The only problem with the Axe FX which isn't necessarily a bad thing is that you can get caught into the habit of constantly tweaking patches. BTW, I would also consider the FM3 as well if looking at Fractual stuff. Edit, for low volume I would look into an FM3 and get a pair of Yamaha HS5 monitors. It can get loud but not enough to piss off the wife and kids LOL.

 

[boltzthrower]

I've been running the AxeFx and Synergy stuff together in a rig w/ tube power amp and cabs have been doing this for several years now... the Axe is awesome/amazing but for raw amp tones, IMHO, the Synergy stuff is more satisfying and easier to get along with...

This. The current AxeFx stuff comes close but it’s not quite the same as an actual analog preamp, in the room anyway. That said, since you’ll be going into a PS2, you might want the Axe for its power amp modeling since the PS2 is so sterile. Either rig would be awesome. If cost is a factor, might want to figure out what effects you’d pair with Synergy, the effects in the AxeFX are stellar.

 

[tallcoolone]

I’ve been waiting awhile for the rackmount Synergy stuff i’m interested in to get back in stock. But it’s got me to thinking about Axe fx iii. I like the idea of effects included in an all in one unit also.
I only play at home and need low volume. I have some hearing loss and family doesn’t want to hear my failed attempts at 80’s metal anyway
If I got an Axe fx i would be using poweramp (i have a Fryette ps2) and KSR guitar cab. I hate computers and technology but I guess I could suffer to learn basics.
My question is i’m torn on what to do. Keep waiting on Synergy or bite the Axe fx bullet? Axe fx does have more options. Synergy modules arent cheap and would add up fast cost wise also.
I guess i’m just curious what you Rigtalkers could offer me in advice and for things to think about to help me make a decision.

AXE through quality studio monitors is your best match. Guitar cabs/speakers sound like ass at low volumes—you will be severely degrading your tone right off the bat there. And for nothing since you are not looking to travel with the rig or turn it up.

Understand going in that it will take 2-3 weeks to get your arms/head around the tech. After that you will have an epiphany and come back here to thank me

 

[chumbucket]

AXE through quality studio monitors is your best match. Guitar cabs/speakers sound like ass at low volumes—you will be severely degrading your tone right off the bat there. And for nothing since you are not looking to travel with the rig or turn it up.

Understand going in that it will take 2-3 weeks to get your arms/head around the tech. After that you will have an epiphany and come back here to thank me

I have to disagree with you a bit here. I usually tweak in my Axe patches through a 4x12 at a volume that I could jam with a drummer at.
Turning that same patch down to practice volume typically sounds great. Not as fulfilling as the louder volume but perfectly serviceable. Another reason I prefer the SS power amp (not class D) because it's more linear and it doesn't change that much until speaker compression kicks in.

I'll take jamming through a 4x12 at low volume over studio monitors any day of the week. It also cuts out the tedium of choosing a good sounding IR cab.

 

[gibson5413]

you can narrow it down by sounds or players...e.g., if you like Mesa IIC++, then the NeuralDSP Mesa IIC++ Suite is worth trying, etc.

JCM800? then PolyChromeDSP Nunchuck, or the new bad boy:





You'll have a similar overwhelming set of choices with Fractal: amp, cab, mics, mic placement, IRs,...etc., before even looking at the advanced parameters for each.

I recently purchased the Bad Boy plugin. It is really great if you're looking for a really good modded Marshall tone without having to tweak. ML Sound Lab makes some really good plugins as well.

https://ml-sound-lab.com/

 

[tallcoolone]

I have to disagree with you a bit here. I usually tweak in my Axe patches through a 4x12 at a volume that I could jam with a drummer at.
Turning that same patch down to practice volume typically sounds great. Not as fulfilling as the louder volume but perfectly serviceable. Another reason I prefer the SS power amp (not class D) because it's more linear and it doesn't change that much until speaker compression kicks in.

I'll take jamming through a 4x12 at low volume over studio monitors any day of the week. It also cuts out the tedium of choosing a good sounding IR cab.

Not sure what you disagree with? I used an AXEII exclusively live and at home for several years. Yes, you can run it through a power amp and cab and yes you can get it sounding great. I did that and have plenty of live clips using it that way. But that’s not how Cliff designs the unit—he tweaks it to sound like the original amps using near field monitors. Which means for the “truest” tone that’s how you would need to run it.

For the OP, who never has to worry about volume/monitoring changes (one of the biggest drawbacks to any modeling unit IME), will never need the rig to move, and will never need anything louder than ‘loud stereo’ volume…a good pair of studio monitors will give him the most honest tone out of the AXE. Definitely better than trying to turn down a power amp to mouse fart volume and run it through guitar speakers.

 

[boltzthrower]

AXE through quality studio monitors is your best match. Guitar cabs/speakers sound like ass at low volumes—you will be severely degrading your tone right off the bat there. And for nothing since you are not looking to travel with the rig or turn it up.

To each their own but that’s not my experience. I play my AxeFX through tube power amp and 2 4x12’s even when it’s quiet enough to hear the strings acoustically. I have decent Mackie 8” monitors and a pair of QSC K10’s and I strongly prefer the tube amp/4x12 setup at any volume.

 

[tallcoolone]

To each their own but that’s not my experience. I play my AxeFX through tube power amp and 2 4x12’s even when it’s quiet enough to hear the strings acoustically. I have decent Mackie 8” monitors and a pair of QSC K10’s and I strongly prefer the tube amp/4x12 setup at any volume.

Really? At any volume? I don’t understand that at all. The AXE is designed to be run through full range monitors.

That being said, K10s would not be my first choice for home use either. Decent 8” studio monitors should work great tho

 

[jchrisf]

Really? At any volume? I don’t understand that at all. The AXE is designed to be run through full range monitors.

That being said, K10s would not be my first choice for home use either. Decent 8” studio monitors should work great tho

I love my FM3 through headphones but with monitors they don't sounds as good.. what am I doing wrong? I'd love to hear in the room, what I hear through my headphones. I've got 5" Rokits and Mackie MR5 MKII.. also 8" Mackie MR8 MKIIIs

 

[chumbucket]

I love my FM3 through headphones but with monitors they don't sounds as good.. what am I doing wrong? I'd love to hear in the room, what I hear through my headphones. I've got 5" Rokits and Mackie MR5 MKII.. also 8" Mackie MR8 MKIIIs

It could be your room. It might be worth it to you to analyze the frequencies and see what's missing that your room is swallowing up.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

 

[tallcoolone]

I love my FM3 through headphones but with monitors they don't sounds as good.. what am I doing wrong? I'd love to hear in the room, what I hear through my headphones. I've got 5" Rokits and Mackie MR5 MKII.. also 8" Mackie MR8 MKIIIs

Not sure? As I mentioned, Cliff designs these tones (or at least did when I was using FAS a decade ago) using ADAM studio monitors. In the Fractal world when I was in it, IRs were as much a part of the system as preamp tones were. At that time Fractal IRs were proprietary--thats how important they were to the finished product. Using the thing as a preamp--defeating the IRs and power amp sims--running through a random power amp (they all add a different flavor) through random guitar speakers (they all add a different flavor) pretty much negates most of what the AXE brings to the table. Not to mention now your rig includes a power amp, a cab, the 3u rack mount unit and a MIDI board on the floor. Makes a half stack and pedalboard sound simple.

 

[chumbucket]

Not sure? As I mentioned, Cliff designs these tones (or at least did when I was using FAS a decade ago) using ADAM studio monitors. In the Fractal world when I was in it, IRs were as much a part of the system as preamp tones were. At that time Fractal IRs were proprietary--thats how important they were to the finished product. Using the thing as a preamp--defeating the IRs and power amp sims--running through a random power amp (they all add a different flavor) through random guitar speakers (they all add a different flavor) pretty much negates most of what the AXE brings to the table. Not to mention now your rig includes a power amp, a cab, the 3u rack mount unit and a MIDI board on the floor. Makes a half stack and pedalboard sound simple.

Cliff also does A/B testing through real speaker cabs using a Crown (I think?) power amp.

 

[tallcoolone]

Cliff also does A/B testing through real speaker cabs using a Crown (I think?) power amp.

Did not know that. I guess I’m just saying that while it’s much cooler to see a guitar cab vs a couple of speakers sometimes that’s the tool you need. I bought my AXE when I lived in an apt for a few years. Strict noise restrictions. 6 or 7 high end tube amps and didn’t have the ability to play any of them.

Got the first Two Notes product to be able to run through my Rokit8s and that was a godsend. Then I got the AXE and (after a couple weeks) it was heaven. Any amp through any cab with any fx at the click of a mouse. I will say the 4-6wks I was playing amps through monitors kind of got me ready for the “amp in the room” dynamic but that’s a whole other subject.

From what I can tell, the Synergy stuff is no different from any other tube amp. Which means it needs to breathe to sound it’s best. Not my idea of a dream low volume home rig at all

 

[squealie]

you can narrow it down by sounds or players...e.g., if you like Mesa IIC++, then the NeuralDSP Mesa IIC++ Suite is worth trying, etc.

JCM800? then PolyChromeDSP Nunchuck, or the new bad boy:





You'll have a similar overwhelming set of choices with Fractal: amp, cab, mics, mic placement, IRs,...etc., before even looking at the advanced parameters for each.

I've been AxeFX since 2009. At the time I had several neato tube preamps and a 72 plexi (metal face), a Jose RI, and a Voodoo Modded Recto.

My AxeFX 3 into my 700w Crown SS amp into my Marshall/Boogie 4/12s will keep up with anything. And I love the tones.

For recording, I always go AxeFX.

That said, if starting over today, I'd totally go Bogren digital. The 'one knob' shit they do is absolutely stellar and a no brain solution to killer rock tone and feel.

 

[tallcoolone]

Bogren digital

That website is ridiculous

 

[Shask]

I've been AxeFX since 2009. At the time I had several neato tube preamps and a 72 plexi (metal face), a Jose RI, and a Voodoo Modded Recto.

My AxeFX 3 into my 700w Crown SS amp into my Marshall/Boogie 4/12s will keep up with anything. And I love the tones.

For recording, I always go AxeFX.

That said, if starting over today, I'd totally go Bogren digital. The 'one knob' shit they do is absolutely stellar and a no brain solution to killer rock tone and feel.

I have had Fractal stuff for about as long. It is great gear, but I have also been very impressed with ToneX lately. I would consider it also. It has a great ecosystem and has probably the best feel out of the digital units I have tried.

Synergy is totally different though. It is kind of like having a bunch of old 90's tube rack preamps with modern designs. It will sound the best in the room, but be the least flexible compared to the digital stuff.

 

[retrorack]

I would forget about the wait time. Once you have it (whichever one) it won’t matter. What will matter is how much you enjoy using it, or not. If you don’t like fussing with technology or needing to have a computer nearby just to practice, I think AxeFx is going the wrong direction. Leon Todd makes it look easy because he’s a pro who knows the unit inside and out. You’re playing at home cuz it’s fun. If something, like a menu screen or Pc editor, gets in the way of it being fun, it defeats the purpose and will eventually just annoy you.

 

[jchrisf]

PolyChromeDSP McRocklin Suite - this is my favorite, I can get nearly every sound I want from this plugin. I also purchased their Nunchuck which is based on a JCM800 and mods

I am doing the free trial of these right now. I found one high gain preset that I liked on the McRocklin.. it was ok but not great. I'm sure in the regular version there is a lot of nice tones though. There were several clean presets I loved. The Nunchuck was great.. I'm more of a Marshall guy. I'm testing it with my other software modelers because my first impressions was it was the best modeled Marshall tones ever on a software platform. It was interesting how different the two apps were to each other. One was futuristic and the other was basic amp, cab and pedals. The effects in both were amazing.

After I retire I plan to move to a small condo with a great view and hope to go strictly software based then. It is amazing how far that has come and the variety that is out there. Even though they seem inexpensive, they add up... especially platforms that make you upgrade every couple of years. Might just stick with Fractal... but I like to think I can just have a little laptop doing it all and no bulky equipment.

 

[rsm]

I am doing the free trial of these right now. I found one high gain preset that I liked on the McRocklin.. it was ok but not great. I'm sure in the regular version there is a lot of nice tones though. There were several clean presets I loved. The Nunchuck was great.. I'm more of a Marshall guy. I'm testing it with my other software modelers because my first impressions was it was the best modeled Marshall tones ever on a software platform. It was interesting how different the two apps were to each other. One was futuristic and the other was basic amp, cab and pedals. The effects in both were amazing.

After I retire I plan to move to a small condo with a great view and hope to go strictly software based then. It is amazing how far that has come and the variety that is out there. Even though they seem inexpensive, they add up... especially platforms that make you upgrade every couple of years. Might just stick with Fractal... but I like to think I can just have a little laptop doing it all and no bulky equipment.

great to hear! I think soundwise, software plugins are comparable to current hardware modelers.

So far the PolyChromeDSP, NeuralDSP and BlueCatAudio software have been free updates; I probably have several hundred $ in guitar plugins, and even more with keyboard software instruments (Arturia V Collection which charges for version upgrades; and Omnisphere 2, so far no cost for updates, but that may change with a new version?)

I still like having my tube amps, I plan to retire this year or next, I already live in my chosen retirement location. Recently sold my FM9 since I'm using the software plugins more, and I still have my Helix. I'll gradually start selling some of my gear in retirement to fund new gear, or to reduce what I have...

right now the only music gear I want is a Korg Kronos 3 88-key workstation; it went up by $500 because of reciprocal tariffs, but I read this morning that Japan is sending a trade negotiator to DC to discuss tariffs, so hopefully the price will go down $500!