did some research on the 2c plus

[Racerxrated]

Don't get too caught up in the original vs upgraded 2C debate. All are done by Mike B, therefore all are true C+ amps. I have an upgraded SRG, I also grabbed an original HRG serial #129xx. I A/Bd them using the same tubes, same cab etc. The upgraded C+ sounded better. The only differences anyone hears IMO are the normal differences between same models of amps in general, like JCM 800s.

 

[VC4Ever]

meh. To each there own. I know what I like better.

 

[psychodave]

I don't need the added gain from the ++. The + has enough usable gain for me. Better touch sensitivity and single notes sound better to me. Mine is an original C+ but the C++ was an upgrade. Different transformers, and power sections. The original is simul-class with 6l6/EL-34's and the C++ is all 6l6's.

Yeah, the differences you heard could be a number of things. What tubes were in the 2C+ vs the ++ you owned? What transformers were in each? Did one have reverb and one didn't? Were they both simul-class? When I had my 2C+, I ran the gain up high and pulled the lead channel pot. With the ++, I run the gain lower and don't need to pull the lead channel pot. I find the ++ has a much greater touch sensitivity as well as being slightly more compressed allowing for greater note definition.

The ++ I'm selling has the 105 transformer with simul-class. The amp sounds incredible with 6CA7's and / or 6L6's in the simul sockets. I'm selling with Mesa labeled Sylvania 415 power tubes...the tubes the amp was designed with.

 

[VC4Ever]

I'm not dogging the C++, I still have it. I just don't use it as much as I would the C+. A lot of it also has to do with the style I play and the guitars/pickups I use. Some guitars literally sound like ass in these great amps (both) and some just work. The guitars you use on the C++ probably just work really well for you. It's a combination of a lot of variables I guess.

 

[Racerxrated]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

 

[mctallica1]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

FWIW, I have owned 14 C+'s....pretty much equally split between originals and upgrades and I agree that the basic tonal qualities were similar in all of them. And they were all awesome

 

[psychodave]

I'm not dogging the C++, I still have it. I just don't use it as much as I would the C+. A lot of it also has to do with the style I play and the guitars/pickups I use. Some guitars literally sound like ass in these great amps (both) and some just work. The guitars you use on the C++ probably just work really well for you. It's a combination of a lot of variables I guess.

Apologies. I wasn't implying anything I was more curious about what you have, etc. I find it interesting to discuss everyone's perceptions.

 

[psychodave]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

Lol. Indeed.

If we get technical, all 2C+'s are upgraded 2C's.

 

[NewWorldMan]

If we get technical, all 2C+'s are upgraded 2C's.

That's exactly how I describe it to people. Instead of original vs upgrade, it's more like modded before it left the factory or after.

I've got a + and a ++, both with Simul & 105's. Thst being said, someone needs to buy Dave's...

 

[mctallica1]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

Lol. Indeed.

If we get technical, all 2C+'s are upgraded 2C's.

I never thought about it that way, but you are absolutely correct!

 

[rottingcorpse]

Must stop reading this thread. C+ gas is killing me.

 

[VC4Ever]

I'm not dogging the C++, I still have it. I just don't use it as much as I would the C+. A lot of it also has to do with the style I play and the guitars/pickups I use. Some guitars literally sound like ass in these great amps (both) and some just work. The guitars you use on the C++ probably just work really well for you. It's a combination of a lot of variables I guess.

Apologies. I wasn't implying anything I was more curious about what you have, etc. I find it interesting to discuss everyone's perceptions.

Right on. I haven't really paid much attention to using NOS tubes. Do you find they make a major improvement? Where can I find them?

 

[blackba]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a IIC++?

 

[Racerxrated]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a IIC++?

Its a 2C+ that has been modded for additional gain, and more of a low mids emphasis. Its also called the 'Hetfield mod' because I believe James Hetfield's famous 2C+ has this mod, and was the first. The creator of the C+, Mike Bendinelli at Mesa performs this mod to C+s for an additional 2-300 I believe.

 

[psychodave]

I'm not dogging the C++, I still have it. I just don't use it as much as I would the C+. A lot of it also has to do with the style I play and the guitars/pickups I use. Some guitars literally sound like ass in these great amps (both) and some just work. The guitars you use on the C++ probably just work really well for you. It's a combination of a lot of variables I guess.

Apologies. I wasn't implying anything I was more curious about what you have, etc. I find it interesting to discuss everyone's perceptions.

Right on. I haven't really paid much attention to using NOS tubes. Do you find they make a major improvement? Where can I find them?

I think they make the 2C+ sound incredible. Keep in mind that the amp was designed around them. With that said I still like the Mesa 440's and really like the TAD 6L6's.

With regards to finding NOS tubes, good luck. They are like a needle in a hay stack...you just need to know which hay stacks have the needles. Haha.

 

[SBlue]

I'm not dogging the C++, I still have it. I just don't use it as much as I would the C+. A lot of it also has to do with the style I play and the guitars/pickups I use. Some guitars literally sound like ass in these great amps (both) and some just work. The guitars you use on the C++ probably just work really well for you. It's a combination of a lot of variables I guess.

Apologies. I wasn't implying anything I was more curious about what you have, etc. I find it interesting to discuss everyone's perceptions.

Right on. I haven't really paid much attention to using NOS tubes. Do you find they make a major improvement? Where can I find them?

I think they make the 2C+ sound incredible. Keep in mind that the amp was designed around them. With that said I still like the Mesa 440's and really like the TAD 6L6's.

With regards to finding NOS tubes, good luck. They are like a needle in a hay stack...you just need to know which hay stacks have the needles. Haha.

When I got my C+ it went Mesa Hollywood and Mike B for a check up and restoration(long story) and when it came back it had Mesa tubes(power and pre).
Didn't care about trying old tubes on the power section.
On the preamp I've tried a few different ones(yellow, white, shield logo and all kind of Mullards, Amperex, Teles, RCA, Brimars, etc), and decided that the difference wasn't enough to justify. The Mesa preamp tubes might have been so well matched to it's position by Mike B that the NOSs was not that much better in this amp.
On other amps, more especificaly some old ones(both british and american) the old glass makes a much bigger diference.
Some of my other newer amps also sounded better with new glass in them... VH-4, Poundcake 100, Dual Rectifier, 5153, Uberschall. The old stuff get the old glass.
If you have, use them. If you don't, don't even bother. It'll be a nightmare finding good stuff without the insane price tag.

 

[Racerxrated]

Sometimes you can find used Sylvania 6L6 that are still strong and measure within acceptable range, 30-40 ma for instance, and will work great with a 2C or other Mark series for that matter. They are reasonable and do make a difference. If you try to find the Mesa labeled Sylvania's good luck. And get ready for sticker shock lol.

 

[gts]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

Hmmmm wonder if I'm one of those "snobs"... Nah can't be as I have both original and upgrades.

Quite honestly the only "snobbery" (if snobbery is even the right word) that might be perceived on the BB as relates to the C+ is when forum members are countering all the clueless people who have never owned a C+ that claim all the accolades about the C+ is nothing more than a bunch of over hyped BS. Nothing worse than someone without any direct experience claiming they "know". Often this BS gets posted by those who have a Mark III but have never had/ or played through a C+. (fwiw I own a MkIII too).

 

[Racerxrated]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

Hmmmm wonder if I'm one of those "snobs"... Nah can't be as I have both original and upgrades.

Quite honestly the only "snobbery" (if snobbery is even the right word) that might be perceived on the BB as relates to the C+ is when forum members are countering all the clueless people who have never owned a C+ that claim all the accolades about the C+ is nothing more than a bunch of over hyped BS. Nothing worse than someone without any direct experience claiming they "know". Often this BS gets posted by those who have a Mark III but have never had/ or played through a C+. (fwiw I own a MkIII too).

not you. I've read a lot of posts and most say there's no difference between original/upgraded C+s. But a few consider originals better, i.e. Worth more. My experience was the opposite as I kept an upgrade over an original after A/B testing them. And after owning 2 mark 3s, I can't imagine anyone seriously thinking they sound close. Nothing against Mark 3s but cmon. Big difference imo.

 

[Marc_Nitschke221B]

I was referring to more of the snobbery that exists with a few on the boogie board... Not everyone, but a few that say with certainty that originals sound better than upgraded Cs. Some others have had tens of C+s, and say there's no difference other than basic tonal differences that exist between each and every original C+ or upgraded C+ that exists. Probably the guys that have originals dog those upgraded Cs to boost their own value. My own experience was the opposite. I sent the original packing.

Lol. Indeed.

If we get technical, all 2C+'s are upgraded 2C's.

Yeah, that's kinda what people seem to forget...

At the moment I for one am looking to buy an IIC+ or even IIC++, upgraded or not.

@ dave: you're sure you want to keep your ++ or would you reconsider? I would be interested!