Diezel Herbert v VH4S v Fryette Pittbull Ultra Lead (help)

[richierich]

Lot's of VH-4's in those live shots. Oh, but Andy Wood has a Herbert.

http://fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&t=15890


Still stand by my statement on the Herbert.

 

[rlaracue]

Thanks for the multitude of responses! Perhaps I can shed some light on exactly what I will be using the amp for, as the original post was rather ambiguous as to my own style of music.

I am currently part of a Progressive Metal band; I want to be able to play big-sounding, saturated riffs (similar to a dual rectifier) and have a lead tone that is capable of really singing. Speaking of the Dual-rec, it was another of the amps that I was considering, and I am a big fan of its high gain sounds for rhythm, but I wasn't certain it was capable of the lead tone that I wanted. That said, I don't think I have spent enough time playing it to unlock its secrets. I cannot play a Diezel, as there are no vendors near my place of residence, so that route would be a leap of faith.

The artists listed are simply the ones that have influenced my playing the most, enough that I sort of emulate them unconsciously, though not to the extent of attempting to blatantly rip off their style.

 

[van hellion]

Lot's of VH-4's in those live shots. Oh, but Andy Wood has a Herbert.

http://fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&t=15890


Still stand by my statement on the Herbert.

snax-fx will be used in my rig like pete thorn uses his in his rig ( loosely) It will be used for effects mostly, but also wired into the switchable loops for other amp modeling thats drastically outside herbert voicing, stuff like vox's etc. to me the ultimate setup is a marriage of all the things i enjoy.

with that said, my new rig will be based around 2 herberts... in stereo

Herbert live kicks all kinds of ass for me. Hands down my favorite channel switcher. All of my recordings were done with herbert and einstein, all effects done in post production. A Diezel and a cable. It really works for the tones im into. VH=4 rocks for some folks, but for me i have yet to gel with it. I like the bloom on the notes of the herbert.

A Wood

 

[FourT6and2]

If you're playing in a band get an UL. In a loud band setting you will stand out better with the UL over a Diezel. If you're playing at home get a Diezel, really good at low volumes and an easy to play feel.

+8487, Diezel is best for home use!

Wow, people use Diezel's live. Wow, when did this happen?

Literally right after you posted that they're only good for bedroom use.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I have heard the Herbert live a few times and from what i heard, it was buried. Could have been user error or soundman issues? I liked the Herbert when i played it but i never played it in a loud setting, just going by what i heard from others who used it live.

Hetfield as an example isn't a good one because Metallica's tones, to me, have been terrible ever since the Load album. They used Diezel's on St. Anger didn't they? That's one of the worst albums I've heard tonewise. Hetfield sounded a million times better when he plugged straight into his old Boogie IIC+ and when he wasn't messing around with other amps. And Tremonti and Corgan.......no thanks on what they sound like. Ah well, it's just opinion.

But getting back to the original theme, if a band had 2 players and one guy was using an UL and one was using a Herbert, I'd bet the farm on the fact that the UL would do better in the mix. The UL has less saturation and there's more spacing in between the notes which can make it a bitch to play clean on if your technique isn't clean, but that works live bigtime. That's why guys first plug in and complain that's it sounds dry, but does a soaked tone with delay and reverb really cut through and slam people in the chest?

One thing i am guessing about the Herbert is that some guys may go overboard with the mid-cut. There's no better way to vanish in a band mix than to scoop all your mids out.

 

[Sixtonoize]

I am currently part of a Progressive Metal band; I want to be able to play big-sounding, saturated riffs (similar to a dual rectifier) and have a lead tone that is capable of really singing.

It sounds like the Herbert might be a better option for you. You can certainly make an UL sing, but you've really got to be on top of your game.
The UL, despite "Lead" in its name, isn't really the amp most suited to playing fat leads - the voicing can get a little thin for single-note stuff. That being said, I play one and I've never thought that my lead tone is thin, especially when I watch vids that people have taken of my band - but I still think that the Herbert is more naturally suited to the role.

Also, the UL is anything but saturated. That's why it's so great - it's a cutting, dry amp and it's totally unforgiving of mistakes.
It will make yo step up your game and become a cleaner/tighter player, but the term "liquid" doesn't really apply.
Even with the gain maxed, the UL doesn't really have a lot of that "shug shug" saturated sound.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I thought channel 3 of my old 2003 UL was only good for leads personally. Too smeared and not enough note separation for rhythms even with the graphic EQ engaged. Channel 2 boosted was the best rhythm tone I got out of it.

I heard the newer black push button models were better in that regard though.

 

[RJF]

Still stand by my statement on the Herbert.

A man that sticks to his guns ......... even when they are blatantly wrong....

 

[Mailman1971]

..... There's no better way to vanish in a band mix than to scoop all your mids out.

This I am positive is the problem with the Herberts being not heard in a mix.
I run the gain about noonish and never use the Mid-cut switch.
Cuts thru the band mix in SPADES!

 

[Bugsy]

I say VHT Pitbull. I've played both and they both sound incredible, but there was something about the VHT that gave me goosebumps. When cranked on class A mode, the VHT was anything but dry. Harmonics were bouncing everywhere.

 

[stratotone]

A VHT UL can be a little hard to play, but the nice thing is that every nuance of your playing jumps right out. Garbage in - garbage out, but if you play well, it will reward you. I also have an old three channel VHT classic running EL34s - it's not as tight but still harder to play. I think the amps have plenty of gain/sustain, just not a lot of fuzz around the edges.

Pete

 

[Gsxrbusa]

Here is my Ultra Lead in my Basement with drummer, to give another Idea of what some thrash would sound like. Don't know if this is gonna help or hurt the UL for your decision but here you go. With mistakes and all. Oh, that first couple seconds of playing was the Cobra and then bam, UL. You can here a big difference.
UL through Engl XXL cab with V30's and ISP SL sub

 

[MetalMongolito]

I think EL34 power tubes would suit you much better for that style. Since I'm very familiar with everyone of the artists you mentioned.

So if you want simplicity and a even more cheap option but still as good I recommend the Fryette CL, with graphic EQ of course. If you want more flexibe amp on the fly I would choose a Diezel instead of the Fryette UL since I think that KT88 power-section isn't as flexible for all those type of styles. If you want to go more expensive and just as flexible as the UL go with the CLX instead, will make you much happier I think. But for the super flexible amp go for the Herbert, you can even choose powertubes in that one...

It's impossible to know which one you would like tho, since Fryette and Diezel are extremely different. Both are great amps but very different. I'd say you would be fine with a Mesa Mark 5 also. That amp would completely nail these type of sounds: Andy Timmons, Dream Theater, Joe Santriani for sure.

EDIT: Reading your second post I think maybe the Fryette Sig X will suit you even better.

 

[stephen sawall]

I was thinking Sig X myself after reading the other post. It is my favorite Fryette and favorite channel switcher by anyone.

What other instruments are in your band and is there a other guitar player .... what are they using ? This well make a big difference.

I think the Diezel's are great amps .... but I did notice that almost everyone that uses one is also has other amps being used at the same time in the photos above and every place else ? There is a reason this happens.

Any of you guys that are using Diezel do you use other amps in parallel and is there other guitar / midrange instruments in your band ?

 

[RJF]

Any of you guys that are using Diezel do you use other amps in parallel and is there other guitar / midrange instruments in your band ?

Nope, I use my Herbert alone, and it kills.....

It's all in the mid cut feature, you can bury yourself if you scoop it too hard.

 

[stephen sawall]

Any of you guys that are using Diezel do you use other amps in parallel and is there other guitar / midrange instruments in your band ?

Nope, I use my Herbert alone, and it kills.....

It's all in the mid cut feature, you can bury yourself if you scoop it too hard.

Is there a other guitar player in your band or other midrange instruments ?
I have played on a Herbert before and know what it does.

 

[FourT6and2]

Here is my Ultra Lead in my Basement with drummer, to give another Idea of what some thrash would sound like. Don't know if this is gonna help or hurt the UL for your decision but here you go. With mistakes and all. Oh, that first couple seconds of playing was the Cobra and then bam, UL. You can here a big difference.
UL through Engl XXL cab with V30's and ISP SL sub

Sounds good I like the mid-range emphasis. It's a bit boxy in a way, but I like that. Sounds saturated, but not. Makes me want to try an UL.

 

[van hellion]

I was thinking Sig X myself after reading the other post. It is my favorite Fryette and favorite channel switcher by anyone.

What other instruments are in your band and is there a other guitar player .... what are they using ? This well make a big difference.

I think the Diezel's are great amps .... but I did notice that almost everyone that uses one is also has other amps being used at the same time in the photos above and every place else ? There is a reason this happens.

Any of you guys that are using Diezel do you use other amps in parallel and is there other guitar / midrange instruments in your band ?

Another guitarist plays in Down From Up. He uses a VHT 50 watt Pittbull. I also use my diezels on clinics, did several playing with Guthrie and doing one this week in NC with Andy Timmons.

I have never had an issue getting thru the mix with my herbie or einstein.

A Wood

 

[Gsxrbusa]

Here is my Ultra Lead in my Basement with drummer, to give another Idea of what some thrash would sound like. Don't know if this is gonna help or hurt the UL for your decision but here you go. With mistakes and all. Oh, that first couple seconds of playing was the Cobra and then bam, UL. You can here a big difference.
UL through Engl XXL cab with V30's and ISP SL sub

Sounds good I like the mid-range emphasis. It's a bit boxy in a way, but I like that. Sounds saturated, but not. Makes me want to try an UL.

Thank you sir Yep, The amount of mid range on tap is ridiculous. Boxy is an interesting way to put it, but fitting. The EQ really allows a guy to shape it any way he wants. I really like to mix the UL with a more saturated amp, like my Invader or Avenger. Best of both worlds. To be honest, the way i have my VHT set up it sounds pretty bland by itself but, mixed with other instruments it delivers hardcore. Add another amp and it's love. Other amp is not necesary but fun.

 

[chunktone]

I would go with the Herbert. I've never really dug the VHT sound. It's just not my thing. The Herbert will be VERY hard to beat.