Diezel Herbert v VH4S v Fryette Pittbull Ultra Lead (help)

[stephen sawall]

I was thinking Sig X myself after reading the other post. It is my favorite Fryette and favorite channel switcher by anyone.

What other instruments are in your band and is there a other guitar player .... what are they using ? This well make a big difference.

I think the Diezel's are great amps .... but I did notice that almost everyone that uses one is also has other amps being used at the same time in the photos above and every place else ? There is a reason this happens.

Any of you guys that are using Diezel do you use other amps in parallel and is there other guitar / midrange instruments in your band ?

Another guitarist plays in Down From Up. He uses a VHT 50 watt Pittbull. I also use my diezels on clinics, did several playing with Guthrie and doing one this week in NC with Andy Timmons.

I have never had an issue getting thru the mix with my herbie or einstein.

A Wood

I would really like to own a Herbert. I just know what I have seen other people using them around here at gigs. There are so many variables with a live band.... how the guitar players sets up his rig, what the sound guy does, etc. I have messed with Diezel's but not a lot with a band and this was not at gigs, but large rooms. Only a handful of times. 2 guitars, bass, drums. I was right in front of the amp so I had no problem hearing myself. I was using more than one amp almost all the time for more than 25 years. This year I am getting into only one amp at a time again. I am sure you have a lot more experience with the Diezel's and trust your ears. Thanks

 

[rlaracue]

bump

 

[nbarts]

You've just mentioned 2 of my favorite amp brands, but I don't really see why you have chosen these, unless you want to sound different than all those artists you've mentioned. If that's the case I can really appreciate that, pick any one of them & be happy. Otherwise look elsewhere.

 

[rlaracue]

I have chosen them b/c I have owned a Mesa Deuce II and played Riveras K/Tre, H&Ks, Soldano SLO, Marshalls, entire Mesa line, Engl Invader, Bogner XTC, and Fryettes with none apart from the Fryette UL and perhaps the Mesa Roadster being close to what I wanted.

Even with the Roadster I would likely swap out the power tubes and later the pre amps to enhance the sound.

Diezel was a recommendation from by a local Guitar dealer who personally switched from a Mesa Road King to a Herbert. He also tried to steer me towards the Axe FX Ultra but I am not ready to deal with that complexity.


Thanks again for the input.

Based on the type of music I like (again I want my own sound versus trying to sound like one of my favorite players) am I missing a vendor from the above list that would allow me to enjoy play some of my favorite artists when I am in that mode? I may lose my mind but feel free to offer up an idea.

You've just mentioned 2 of my favorite amp brands, but I don't really see why you have chosen these, unless you want to sound different than all those artists you've mentioned. If that's the case I can really appreciate that, pick any one of them & be happy. Otherwise look elsewhere.

 

[Dale B]

It is down to these three amps. BNTW - I am looking at gently used 07-10 models so pricing ranges from 2300-3200.

Anyway the Diezels are running 500-700 more than the Fryettes - are they worth it? Should I add the Einstein to the list?

What I play:

PRS Custom 24
Fender Strat
Fryette Fatbottom 2x12 cab

Music I play:

Eric Johnson
Andy Timmons
Dream Theater
Opeth
Joe Santriani
Steve Vai

Which do you think has the musical/tonal range to do right by most of these styles of music?

PS - If you are selling Diezel please PM me as I am ready to buy this week.

Thanks!!

Having owned all 3 amps, I would go with the Herbert if you're playing all of that stuff. The Herbert feels a lot better when playing lead guitar. It also will do the heavy stuff. The clean channel is very nice as well.

 

[James Lugo]

In my opinion, the Herbert can do everything the VH4 can, in a nutshell.

I feel the opposite. To me a Herbert can't do anything a VH4 can. A VH4 is a natural more traditional sounding amp, the Herbert has a thing that is in the sound that is imparted on everything it does.

For me of the 3 it's VH4 all the way.

 

[Hartmut]

In my opinion, the Herbert can do everything the VH4 can, in a nutshell.

I feel the opposite. To me a Herbert can't do anything a VH4 can. A VH4 is a natural more traditional sounding amp, the Herbert has a thing that is in the sound that is imparted on everything it does.

For me of the 3 it's VH4 all the way.

This are some wise words VH4 is the Nr.1 for me, too.

 

[thiswaythatway]

In my opinion, the Herbert can do everything the VH4 can, in a nutshell.

I feel the opposite. To me a Herbert can't do anything a VH4 can. A VH4 is a natural more traditional sounding amp, the Herbert has a thing that is in the sound that is imparted on everything it does.

For me of the 3 it's VH4 all the way.

Have you ever compared the Einstein to the VH4?

 

[James Lugo]

In my opinion, the Herbert can do everything the VH4 can, in a nutshell.

I feel the opposite. To me a Herbert can't do anything a VH4 can. A VH4 is a natural more traditional sounding amp, the Herbert has a thing that is in the sound that is imparted on everything it does.

For me of the 3 it's VH4 all the way.

Have you ever compared the Einstein to the VH4?

I have both are great. Similar sounding, the VH4 probably had more nuts.

 

[xiwiwix]

ENGL SE with EL34's.

That's a beast, and with it's mid boost option it will cover everything you said plus modern tonez!z1!z!1!!z!!

But of the options you listed I've always wanted a VH4. I have a UL, I love it. I've owned one Herbert, 4 ENGL SE's, and this is my 3rd VHT UL (also one CLX so 4-ish UL's ).

 

[sjk]

ENGL SE with EL34's.

That's a beast, and with it's mid boost option it will cover everything you said plus modern tonez!z1!z!1!!z!!

But of the options you listed I've always wanted a VH4. I have a UL, I love it. I've owned one Herbert, 4 ENGL SE's, and this is my 3rd VHT UL (also one CLX so 4-ish UL's ).

How did you like the clx compared to your 3 Ultra Leads. I'm on my second UL, first was a 2004 and this one is 2003. The first one was a little better and I much prefer it to my clx but the clx is an old one.

 

[Heritage Softail]

The new D Mon is worth a listen. It is not out in the states yet but there are demos vids. Brad will carry them, we anticipate, and the price point will be competitive per Peter Diezel in one of the posts. There have been two threads recently here on it. The Diezel site has a good vid. It is Einstein meets more metal. Could be the perfected Einstein. I plan to add either the D Mon or Hagen next year.

Or...

For 3K you could get a real Mesa MKIIC+ and be done with it. It is the Holy Grail of Mesa tone for good reason. do yourself a favor and play one if you have not. It is a beast.

Good luck on the tone quest. It's only thousands of $$$.

 

[xiwiwix]

ENGL SE with EL34's.

That's a beast, and with it's mid boost option it will cover everything you said plus modern tonez!z1!z!1!!z!!

But of the options you listed I've always wanted a VH4. I have a UL, I love it. I've owned one Herbert, 4 ENGL SE's, and this is my 3rd VHT UL (also one CLX so 4-ish UL's ).

How did you like the clx compared to your 3 Ultra Leads. I'm on my second UL, first was a 2004 and this one is 2003. The first one was a little better and I much prefer it to my clx but the clx is an old one.

My CLX was one of the rare combos with P100E's. I hated the p100e's for sure. I LOVED the CLX. I'm sure it has everything to do with the El34's. Everything I didn't like about the UL the CLX fixed. I dropped in some super high gain pre's and boosted the front end with a keeley and it was a mermaid. Clear, punchy, hateful. It sounded like it hated life and wanted everything to die.

No humpy low end, the top end wasn't so harsh, the gain was wetter and the mids were smoother. <-I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I really liked my past UL's, but not as much as I like this new one I just got. Perhaps because I use less gain these days, I dont know. I find my self still fighting the top end and I'm beginning to think it's the KT88's.

 

[xiwiwix]

For 3K you could get a real Mesa MKIIC+ and be done with it. It is the Holy Grail of Mesa tone for good reason. do yourself a favor and play one if you have not. It is a beast.

Negative. It's more hype than anything. I've owned a factory shipped mkIIc+ head, a mkIIc Mesa modded to c+ head and a factory shipped mkIIc+ combo with EVM.

The best Mark I've owned was a Mark III coliseum Blue. That damn thing was insane. It's only one of a hand full of amps I regert letting go. I've owned over 150.

The best Mesa I've owned was a Triple with attached power cable and one knob loop ( series?) with Ruby EL34BSTR (what ever they are called).

But yes, stay away from the Mark IIc+'s. They are really good but there are WAY better amps out there for the/less money.

IMO

 

[xiwiwix]

Why not good for for an Axe FX II with a Marshall EL34 100 Stereo. If I had the cash, that's what I would be rocking.

I don't like VHT Power amps, way to tight, and Mesa's are too loose. Marshall is just right.

IMO

From what I've heard (seen) the Axe will and can pretty much do anything you just listed (plus everything else?). I think I said this back in '03-'04 on HCAF, digital amps are going to be the future... The future seems to be here with Kemper and the Axe.

 

[dwizted]

Thanks for the multitude of responses! Perhaps I can shed some light on exactly what I will be using the amp for, as the original post was rather ambiguous as to my own style of music.

I am currently part of a Progressive Metal band; I want to be able to play big-sounding, saturated riffs (similar to a dual rectifier) and have a lead tone that is capable of really singing. Speaking of the Dual-rec, it was another of the amps that I was considering, and I am a big fan of its high gain sounds for rhythm, but I wasn't certain it was capable of the lead tone that I wanted. That said, I don't think I have spent enough time playing it to unlock its secrets. I cannot play a Diezel, as there are no vendors near my place of residence, so that route would be a leap of faith.

The artists listed are simply the ones that have influenced my playing the most, enough that I sort of emulate them unconsciously, though not to the extent of attempting to blatantly rip off their style.

You ever tried a Framus Cobra. If you like the dual rectifier. I think the cobra does what a dual does but better. Dialed in right it is Tight as hell and sounds really agressive. It can do the mesa sag as well. I dont care for the notch switches on in though sort of like the midcut on a Herbie sounds really killer and unique but gets old quick.

If your hearts set on a UL,Herbert or VH4 do your self a favor and spend some time with a UL it really is God like and will do progressive metal very nicely. Ask rotting corpse he has the UL fever man and can dial in that sucker like nobody's bussiness...

 

[xiwiwix]

^the only thing about the Cobra, on ch 3, the less gain you use the thinner it sounds. It's a super crunch amp and I really like it, but it's an amp that needs the gain turned up so the amp sounds full. It's a fault in my book.

It doesn't maintain it's fat tight tone with less gain, it sounds tight but thin. The higher the setting the fatter/fuller it sounds.

IMO I don't think it will be good for what he wants.

 

[chunktone]

Like another poster said, the Herbert would be my last choice outside the bedroom. Sounds great until the rest of the band kicks in.

User Error.

This!
If you can't be heard using a Herbert, you really need to learn how to EQ an amp.

I have been disappointed every time I try a VHT/Fryette. Love the Herbert though! It's on my short list of best high gain amps ever made!

 

[xiwiwix]

The Herbert has "crushing tone." It just sounds massive! It sounds like "cd tone." It's a really powerful amp.

I think you would like a Rivera TBR-1SL (other than the ENLG SE). If you can find one, buy it! That's another amp I wish I had never let go.

I think Rivera still has some NOS TBR-2SL, $3500 or something like that. But two attenuators (it's a stereo amp) and rock the crap out of it. The TBR-2SL is a stereo 120 amp (120+120 watts).

That thing is tight with a huge powerful tone, and roars like a Marshall. It has 3 or 4 pull knobs for gain, bass boost, mid boost and two gain knobs. I think one of the gain's is called Ninja gain. lols

 

[xiwiwix]

Like another poster said, the Herbert would be my last choice outside the bedroom. Sounds great until the rest of the band kicks in.

User Error.

This!
If you can't be heard using a Herbert, you really need to learn how to EQ an amp.

I'll say this, with the Herbert, it's VERY EASY to get lost in the mix. I think it's an amp that needs to be tweaked while youre jamming with a drummer and bassist.

When I first and only time I jammed with my band when I had the herbert, I did the WTF, where's am I (with the setting I used while I was jamming on the amp by myself). Tuned in Tokyo (tweaked the knobs) and it sounded amazing!!! THE TONEZZ!!!

It has nothing to do with "not knowing." IMO