Diezel VH4 - How many versions and which is 'best'?

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Techdeth said:
I’ll have to make some. Honestly I got it on trade to sell but I ended up loving , need to do clips
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What a great treat! It would be awesome if you did…I think I watched some videos on VH2 a while back. Just don’t remember anything specific about them.
 
Looking forward to the diezel ir-x, distributed by bad.
 
LightsOfSorrow86 said:
I was searching on this forum for a long time people like you. I've ever wanted a VH4 and finally last year I bought one. I've ever been a Mesa fan/user and I didn't expect to play my so desired VH4 and be disappointed at first. But as soon as I sold my old cab and learnt how to dial in, I'm loving my amp every day more. If you want/can and feel comfortable, I'd like to compare my VH4 (which is a 2015 but some components of old VH4 from the factory) to your 2004. If you feel comfortable to pull out the chassis and take some pictures of the value (i have lots of them that I've sent to Peter last year). We can post some pictures here or I can send you some detailed pics of my board by e-mail. I don't want to be too specific here but there are 4 spots to look at. Thanks in advance, hope you can help me.
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Im not sure if you have succeeded comparing your amp to an older model but i have been looking for someone who would be open to share photos of his newer one. I have an old VH4, im more than glad to take it out from it’s case and take a few photos if we could compare it to your newer one.
 
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gabe9842 said:
Im not sure if you have succeeded comparing your amp to an older model but i have been looking for someone who would be open to share photos of his newer one. I have an old VH4, im more than glad to take it out from it’s chassis if we could compare it to your newer one.
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Which year is yours?
 
LightsOfSorrow86 said:
Which year is yours?
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2004 or 2005 if im not mistaken. I should check the serial but definitely before the changes in 2007. Its a dark one... There is a page in the service manual about less compression and more presence, also swapping a cap to 0.1uF for more low end. Well, my amp came with a 0.1uF cap from the factory.
 
I find it kind of odd when people state that a certain amp has more saturation but less compression.
More compression to me means that the amp is less sensitive to changes in pick attack.
No matter if you pick hard or soft, the loudness stays more or less the same.
Saturation is more or less the same thing. If something is saturated, it can not get any louder.
Fryette has little compression or saturation unless you use insane amounts of preamp gain.
Maybe somebody can explain where they see the difference in compression vs. saturation.
 
Vin Diezel said:
I find it kind of odd when people state that a certain amp has more saturation but less compression.
More compression to me means that the amp is less sensitive to changes in pick attack.
No matter if you pick hard or soft, the loudness stays more or less the same.
Saturation is more or less the same thing. If something is saturated, it can not get any louder.
Fryette has little compression or saturation unless you use insane amounts of preamp gain.
Maybe somebody can explain where they see the difference in compression vs. saturation.
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Normally, yes, you increase gain = more saturation = more compression. Normally. The Diezel VH4 is unique in that it's response is compressed but it is still a pretty dry amp. It's response to picking dynamics is indeed very even and to me, it always felt like playing a clean channel with a compressor and gate in front, but with a gained up sound.

Saturation to me, is as much a gain quality thing.
 
gabe9842 said:
Im not sure if you have succeeded comparing your amp to an older model but i have been looking for someone who would be open to share photos of his newer one. I have an old VH4, im more than glad to take it out from it’s case and take a few photos if we could compare it to your newer one.
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I hope it's okay to share outside links to these amp pics... Also, they're not the clearest pics, but maybe they'll help.

Here's a supposed 2010
https://guitarplayer.ru/equipment-e...el-vh4-ivan-kazakov-special-peter-diezel-mod/

This is a 2014 with possible 2020 updates (2x dates/signatures on the PCBs)
https://www.facebook.com/c4soundwor...ues-especially-when-palm-mu/1019694225261581/
 
I knew the second one, seen way bacl. Notice on the right side, bottom right, 3 caps and a resistor not present in the 2010, I have a 2015 and there's nothing in mine too. Between T4 and T5, near the resistor mentioned in the manual for the more presence and less compression, there's no 0,01uF cap anymore and the 2 resistors on top right, the one that are in place of the old Hum trimmer are of the same value. All the VH4s I've seen, '96 blueface, early 2000s updated, late 2000 and modern ones, all of them have 47 ohm on the left and 100 ohm on the right. I believe not too much before 2020 both are 100 ohm. I've also seen a 2023, the same.
 
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LightsOfSorrow86 said:
I knew the second one, seen way bacl. Notice on the right side, bottom right, 3 caps and a resistor not present in the 2010, I have a 2015 and there's nothing in mine too. Between T4 and T5, near the resistor mentioned in the manual for the more presence and less compression, there's no 0,01uF cap anymore and the 2 resistors on top right, the one that are in place of the old Hum trimmer are of the same value. All the VH4s I've seen, '96 blueface, early 2000s updated, late 2000 and modern ones, all of them have 47 ohm on the left and 100 ohm on the right. I believe not too much before 2020 both are 100 ohm. I've also seen a 2023, the same.
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The 3 caps & resistor over in the bottom right is the Ch1 tone stack in that amp. In your amp, those parts should be found soldered directly to the pots. They started doing the direct-mount thing when they moved away from the original BF Ch1 circuit, and it's interesting to see the TS back on the board, no doubt. +1 on the .01u cap being removed. For the two resistors in the heaters supply, I just did a super quick check and there are a few mid/late '90s examples with 100 ohm x2, but you're right, the majority were 47 & 100 - when they didn't have the trim pot, of course.
 
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Higgs said:
The 3 caps & resistor over in the bottom right is the Ch1 tone stack in that amp. In your amp, those parts should be found soldered directly to the pots. They started doing the direct-mount thing when they moved away from the original BF Ch1 circuit, and it's interesting to see the TS back on the board, no doubt. +1 on the .01u cap being removed. For the two resistors in the heaters supply, I just did a super quick check and there are a few mid/late '90s examples with 100 ohm x2, but you're right, the vast majority were 47 & 100 - when they didn't have the trim pot, of course.
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Yeah, you're right and it's similar to a '96 Blueface, but the '96 had 4 prongs with a dipped cercamic disk and a Wima, on the right side a 100k resistor, on the new one you fine 3 cables and 3 prongs, a wima cap and a 33.2k resistor on the right side. And another change I've noticed, maybe you can tell me what's going on there because I don't know hahaha on that clean channel tone stack, above the two vertical caps they changed the resistor from a 680 ohm to a 2.2k.
 
hellzington said:
This, haha.

This 2004 VH4 is my third VH4. I've also owned a 2010 and a 2022. This 2004 VH4 sounds so incredibly different from the other two I had, I can't even explain it. Way less compressed and fizzy than my 2010 and dare I say more "vintage" and "raw" than my 2022, which sounded good but was very polished and modern.

This 2004 is darker than those two, with less compression and less gain globally (except on Channel 2, interestingly, which has more gain than I remember either of the other two having). The lowered global gain makes the sweep of the gain knobs much more useable from 1-10. Sure, the clean channel on the 2004 is not as pristine and shimmering as the other two, but the amp is overall much more organic and punchy, with a more pleasant top end. It has more pleasant harmonic content and the frequencies coming out of the amp are more balanced and classic. The under-the-finger feel is better and the amp responds more naturally. It just has more personality. It's more fun to play and more satisfying to your ear. THIS is the VH4 tone I had been chasing. Crazy how they can all be so different.

A forum member who has known Peter Diezel since 1998 told me that up until 2006, all VH4s were pretty much the same as the old "Blueface" circuit from the mid-to-late 90s. But in the mid-2000's, Peter got many requests to make the VH4 brighter and sharper, with more gain and cut. Players wanted more gain and articulation for "chug"/metal/down-tuned sounds. So Peter made an interesting modification to the amp. Adding a certain resistor to the circuit it would increase the gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle. The lower the value, the more gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle.

In 2007, VH4's started coming stock with these resistors. This is why the post-2007 VH4's all sound the way they do, and it's the way the market was trending at that time. If you recall, Mesa Boogie made similar changes to the 3-Channel Rectifiers in the 2000's to give them more gain, cut, and sizzle. (People now call them "fizzy" but at the time, people liked them.) Peter kept the resistors in the amps and continued adjusting the circuit to players' ears over the years, and as a result the VH4 continued to get more polished and produced as the years went on. I don't know what value they are using in current production VH4's.

When anyone asks about the VH4, my question is always, "Which VH4?" because they can be very different.

I have clips of my 2004 against @pipboy90 's 2022 (we left the mic's running when we were comparing the two). I'll try and get that video finished this week so you can check it out yourself.
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This is how you answer a question. Hell ya
 
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