Do locking tuners really work? update

[soc_monki]

Fuck yes they do! Let me start by saying, Im a very heavy handed player. I have never been able to keep my Strats in tune when I use the Whammy... Then I got 50th Anni Dlx w/ locking tuners. The bridge on that guitar always stays floating and I whammy the fuck out of. Not to mention Im so heavy handed when I attack the strings I get flutters even when I dont mean to.

But from my experience, on a properly set up strat with a new style two point trem, it works great! I am using the Fender Super Bullet strings with it, because they are so damn slinky feeling, but i think react well with the trem and holds tune beautifully. dont get me wrong, you may need a few tuning tweaks after a few songs but its definitely good enough for government work, and I vastly prefer it over Floyds. YMMV.

not to jack the thread, but to Telephant, i just bought an american deluxe strat with the same floating 2 point trem and i just cannot get this guitar to hold tuning. it has the locking tuners and all so i put new strings on it and stretched them out but for some reason the G, B, and E strings go out of tune constantly even if i'm just playing normally and it's driving me nuts!!! you (and anyone else with strats) think it just needs a good professional setup?

i would say you probably need to lube the nut, or get it checked to see if the slots are big enough so the strings arent hanging in them (lubing helps with this). make sure the bushings the trem posts go into are not loose...if they are, youll never get it to stay in tune! also...isnt there a way to tighten the tuners? could they have gotten a bit loose and arent holding tune because of that? ive never used locking tuners so i wouldnt know for sure...

but those are the immediate things i think of when a guitar wont hold tune and i know the tuners are of decent quality.

 

[GRK]

+1 for Planet Waves. Just got some for my Gibby and man, I love my guitar again.

 

[thenine]

I have always struggled with this too. Always come back to floyds.

This is one of the things that fascinates me about Aldrich on the Dio Evil or Divine DVD. He is wacking on his strats with vintage trems - dive bombs etc. Sounds like its still in tune to me. I asked him about it on his bulletin board and he said to make sure the nut slots are filed perfectly staright and a little large. Also, keep nut well lubed. That said, he does switch out guitars so maybe his are good for a few songs as someone else mentioned. I just bought a Tyler with Sperzels and Wilkinson. I'm hoping I have better luck with that than the vintage strat trems Ive had. If not, it will go . Another thought I've had, what about roller nuts? Do they work any better? Seems to me they might help eliminate the issues with nuts slots, lube, etc. Anybody have experience with roller nuts?


9

 

[MrDan666]

I have always struggled with this too. Always come back to floyds.

This is one of the things that fascinates me about Aldrich on the Dio Evil or Divine DVD. He is wacking on his strats with vintage trems - dive bombs etc. Sounds like its still in tune to me. I asked him about it on his bulletin board and he said to make sure the nut slots are filed perfectly staright and a little large. Also, keep nut well lubed. That said, he does switch out guitars so maybe his are good for a few songs as someone else mentioned. I just bought a Tyler with Sperzels and Wilkinson. I'm hoping I have better luck with that than the vintage strat trems Ive had. If not, it will go . Another thought I've had, what about roller nuts? Do they work any better? Seems to me they might help eliminate the issues with nuts slots, lube, etc. Anybody have experience with roller nuts?


9

The main thing with Dougs strats is that he tunes them up, wiggles the bar around then retunes it. Then when he does any whammy bar dives, when its on the way back up to pitch he pushes the bar back a bit really fast. Almost like a pull up. It gets the bar back into pitch a bit better!

To be honest im not that blown away by the rollernut. I have one on a strat and it only improved tuning, everso slightly. Not as much as locking tuners would.

 

[messenger]

[/quote]

The main thing with Dougs strats is that he tunes them up, wiggles the bar around then retunes it. Then when he does any whammy bar dives, when its on the way back up to pitch he pushes the bar back a bit really fast. Almost like a pull up. It gets the bar back into pitch a bit better!

I remember reading an article with EVH and he said he did the same thing before the locking nut.

 

[MrDan666]

This is because with vintage style bridges, the bridge tends to "ride up" on the screws and may go sharp or flat.

Thats it, and i got used to doing that too when i was using a floyd... kinda odd really but i had really worn posts that needed replacing and the floyd returned sharp or flat but never intune. So i used to hit the trem every now and then after using it to get it back intune...

I eventually swapped the posts and it was working fine again and returning to correct pitch. But funnily enough it took ages to get out of the habit of hitting the floyd after using it

 

[Bob Savage]

I have yet to find a guitar without a locking nut that stays in tune with all my whammy-bar-wankery.

 

[orangekick]

I have and prefer Sperzels on my guitars.

 

[70strathead]

Fuck yes they do! Let me start by saying, Im a very heavy handed player. I have never been able to keep my Strats in tune when I use the Whammy... Then I got 50th Anni Dlx w/ locking tuners. The bridge on that guitar always stays floating and I whammy the fuck out of. Not to mention Im so heavy handed when I attack the strings I get flutters even when I dont mean to.

But from my experience, on a properly set up strat with a new style two point trem, it works great! I am using the Fender Super Bullet strings with it, because they are so damn slinky feeling, but i think react well with the trem and holds tune beautifully. dont get me wrong, you may need a few tuning tweaks after a few songs but its definitely good enough for government work, and I vastly prefer it over Floyds. YMMV.

dude we think alike. I havent used a floyd or locking trem since 1988...Everything u mentioned about setting up the strat trem is on point including the fender bullets. I dont own any strats with a two point trem, mine are all vintage trems because i prefer the tone and my trick to keeping those in tune in addition to what you described is that I use two wilkinson springs and one fender spring ( 3 total) in the back. The wilkinsons have a teflon and are less tensiony, so i can whammy all day and night and stay in tune...of course the nut has to be properly cut out as well.

 

[70strathead]

Fuck yes they do! Let me start by saying, Im a very heavy handed player. I have never been able to keep my Strats in tune when I use the Whammy... Then I got 50th Anni Dlx w/ locking tuners. The bridge on that guitar always stays floating and I whammy the fuck out of. Not to mention Im so heavy handed when I attack the strings I get flutters even when I dont mean to.

But from my experience, on a properly set up strat with a new style two point trem, it works great! I am using the Fender Super Bullet strings with it, because they are so damn slinky feeling, but i think react well with the trem and holds tune beautifully. dont get me wrong, you may need a few tuning tweaks after a few songs but its definitely good enough for government work, and I vastly prefer it over Floyds. YMMV.

dude we think alike. I havent used a floyd or locking trem since 1988...Everything u mentioned about setting up the strat trem is on point including the fender bullets. I dont own any strats with a two point trem, mine are all vintage trems because i prefer the tone and my trick to keeping those in tune in addition to what you described is that I use two wilkinson springs and one fender spring ( 3 total) in the back. The wilkinsons have a teflon and are less tensiony, so i can whammy all day and night and stay in tune...of course the nut has to be properly cut out as well.

I would like to add that lube should be use not only on the nut, but the saddles and all fulcrum points...like where the string comes out of the block to the saddle.

very true.

 

[Telephant]

Fuck yes they do! Let me start by saying, Im a very heavy handed player. I have never been able to keep my Strats in tune when I use the Whammy... Then I got 50th Anni Dlx w/ locking tuners. The bridge on that guitar always stays floating and I whammy the fuck out of. Not to mention Im so heavy handed when I attack the strings I get flutters even when I dont mean to.

But from my experience, on a properly set up strat with a new style two point trem, it works great! I am using the Fender Super Bullet strings with it, because they are so damn slinky feeling, but i think react well with the trem and holds tune beautifully. dont get me wrong, you may need a few tuning tweaks after a few songs but its definitely good enough for government work, and I vastly prefer it over Floyds. YMMV.

not to jack the thread, but to Telephant, i just bought an american deluxe strat with the same floating 2 point trem and i just cannot get this guitar to hold tuning. it has the locking tuners and all so i put new strings on it and stretched them out but for some reason the G, B, and E strings go out of tune constantly even if i'm just playing normally and it's driving me nuts!!! you (and anyone else with strats) think it just needs a good professional setup?

It defintely sounds like it needs a professional set up. It could be a combination of all sorts of factors... From the bridge saddles needing adjustment, to the trust rod and maybe even the tuners themselves. I mean its possible that the guitar is a dud and just wont keep tune but I doubt it... If it were me Id take it to a tech and at least try!

 

[Telephant]

Fuck yes they do! Let me start by saying, Im a very heavy handed player. I have never been able to keep my Strats in tune when I use the Whammy... Then I got 50th Anni Dlx w/ locking tuners. The bridge on that guitar always stays floating and I whammy the fuck out of. Not to mention Im so heavy handed when I attack the strings I get flutters even when I dont mean to.

But from my experience, on a properly set up strat with a new style two point trem, it works great! I am using the Fender Super Bullet strings with it, because they are so damn slinky feeling, but i think react well with the trem and holds tune beautifully. dont get me wrong, you may need a few tuning tweaks after a few songs but its definitely good enough for government work, and I vastly prefer it over Floyds. YMMV.

dude we think alike. I havent used a floyd or locking trem since 1988...Everything u mentioned about setting up the strat trem is on point including the fender bullets. I dont own any strats with a two point trem, mine are all vintage trems because i prefer the tone and my trick to keeping those in tune in addition to what you described is that I use two wilkinson springs and one fender spring ( 3 total) in the back. The wilkinsons have a teflon and are less tensiony, so i can whammy all day and night and stay in tune...of course the nut has to be properly cut out as well.

I actually dont own a strat with a Vintage trem (blasphemy, I know) but my next guitar will probably one of those Musikraft Strats with all vintage style parts in vintage white!

To the guys saying their guitar with locking tuners doesnt hold tune well after whammying... THat sucks man.
Seriously, I feel your pain. I was really suprised at how well my Dlx Strat holds tune. I bought it from Southpaw Guitars in Houston without even playing it first, and they mailed it up to Austin to me... It would stay in tune after whammying right out of the box!

Like I was telling Turmoil, maybe its needs some adjustments, or perhaps its just how the damn guitar is.

Chubtone, I cant believe the Suhr wont stay in tune though! Thats one of the last guitars Id think would suffer tuning instability.

You know, maybe I just got lucky with this Strat....

 

[shredhead666]

The idea behind locking tuners is NOT to replace a locking nut. Your guitar will still function exactly as it did before, but may stay in tune only SLIGHTLY better due to the lack of string windings.

What they DO help out with, is the speed at which you can change strings, and the time spent on stretching strings. They're a GREAT upgrade to any guitar IMO, but don't expect them to function the same way a locking nut would (i.e. not letting the strings stray from pitch at all if you have a floyd rose).

Your first point I agree with completely. Locking tuners have barely anything over some properly wound and stretched strings. The tuning difference is slight at best.

The second point, well...

I knew someone who used locking tuners for that reason and I could string a guitar faster than he could with my vintage style klusons. If you are experienced with stringing guitars that difference isn't all that much either.

Sperzels are good for the fact that they have absolutely no play in the shaft. That doesn't really have anything to do with them being locking or not.

A floyd, if set up right is a great thing. They can be abused and beat on and still stay in tune. The whole half-assed approach of a two point non locking bridge and locking tuners is pretty much worthless. They have to be properly set up and tweaked to stay in tune.

So why not use a 6 screw and klusons? I can go to spaghetti strings and come back in tune if I tweak out my strat and keep it set up right. 6 screw trems and vintage tuners sound alot better to me than their modern equivalents. Thats my two cents.

So how do you keep the strings from popping out of the nut slots w/ a floyd and no locking nut? If you touch the bar to the body so the strings flap, they'll all come unseated from the nut.

 

[shredhead666]

The idea behind locking tuners is NOT to replace a locking nut. Your guitar will still function exactly as it did before, but may stay in tune only SLIGHTLY better due to the lack of string windings.

What they DO help out with, is the speed at which you can change strings, and the time spent on stretching strings. They're a GREAT upgrade to any guitar IMO, but don't expect them to function the same way a locking nut would (i.e. not letting the strings stray from pitch at all if you have a floyd rose).

In all due respect, they were definately made to replace the locking nut when they first came out or at least sold that way. Many players back in the day didn't like how the floyd changed the sound of the guitar so locking tuners were just one of the many attempts at creating a system that worked. That being said, I used them on on my stage guitars and none of them stayed perfectly in tune. I mainly liked the quick string changes. In the years I worked in a music store I did see the rare sperzel/two point system that seem to work almost perfectly, and I've also seen a "few" stock fender systems that were tuned to work equally well, but none compared to what you can do on a properly setup floyd type system. Think Steve Vai type stuff on a sperzel/wilkenson system and it's not going to happen.

Wilkinson trems are one thing, because they're floating; but you can't get the same range of pitch-change as you can w/ a Floyd. So w/ a Wilkinson it's not an issue. But if using a Floyd w/ no locking nut, the strings come unseated from the nut during heavy dives.

 

[stratotone]

It defintely sounds like it needs a professional set up. It could be a combination of all sorts of factors... From the bridge saddles needing adjustment, to the trust rod and maybe even the tuners themselves. I mean its possible that the guitar is a dud and just wont keep tune but I doubt it... If it were me Id take it to a tech and at least try!

Truss rod adjustment shouldn't cause a guitar to stay in or out of tune. I have had a few different guitars with Sperzels (Hamer and Charvel USA strats with 2 point trems) and neither would stay in tune as well as a floyded guitar. I haven't seen a vintage or two point trem guitar that I could yank the G string open up to a C, drop it so far that the low E flapped against my humbucker and would get 'stuck' to the magnet, then back in tune with no problems.

Locking tuners do help, so does a properly cut and lubricated nut (hehehe) but nothing is as good at staying in tune and allowing as much up/down movement as a floyd.

Just my opinion, but flamesuit ON

Pete

 

[70strathead]

It defintely sounds like it needs a professional set up. It could be a combination of all sorts of factors... From the bridge saddles needing adjustment, to the trust rod and maybe even the tuners themselves. I mean its possible that the guitar is a dud and just wont keep tune but I doubt it... If it were me Id take it to a tech and at least try!

Truss rod adjustment shouldn't cause a guitar to stay in or out of tune. I have had a few different guitars with Sperzels (Hamer and Charvel USA strats with 2 point trems) and neither would stay in tune as well as a floyded guitar. I haven't seen a vintage or two point trem guitar that I could yank the G string open up to a C, drop it so far that the low E flapped against my humbucker and would get 'stuck' to the magnet, then back in tune with no problems.

Locking tuners do help, so does a properly cut and lubricated nut (hehehe) but nothing is as good at staying in tune and allowing as much up/down movement as a floyd.

Just my opinion, but flamesuit ON

Pete

agreed however, there is one element of mystery behind keeping a strat ( with vintage trem) in tune that i didnt mention in my first post...technique and approach. IMO, You cannot use the same dive bomb approach on a floyd ( which really requires no effort )...u have to work a strat and use your ears and yank on the bar on occasion because the G-string will fall sharp at times. I'm so use to it after years of playing that its a natural thing now that i dont think about and when I am in between songs on stage my intuititon will tell me based off the last trem use, if its out or in and i immdeiatley hone in on it.. I also prefer the trem sound/tone effect of a strat trem vs. Floyd in a big way. I know a friend of mine who bough a jeff beck signature strat and set up exactly like Jeff Beck himself, he had transitioned from a floyd and couldnt keep that guitar in tune to save his life. And as u know Jeff beck couldnt go out of tune on his strat if he tried...he's got it nailed.

Ant

 

[stratotone]

It defintely sounds like it needs a professional set up. It could be a combination of all sorts of factors... From the bridge saddles needing adjustment, to the trust rod and maybe even the tuners themselves. I mean its possible that the guitar is a dud and just wont keep tune but I doubt it... If it were me Id take it to a tech and at least try!

Truss rod adjustment shouldn't cause a guitar to stay in or out of tune. I have had a few different guitars with Sperzels (Hamer and Charvel USA strats with 2 point trems) and neither would stay in tune as well as a floyded guitar. I haven't seen a vintage or two point trem guitar that I could yank the G string open up to a C, drop it so far that the low E flapped against my humbucker and would get 'stuck' to the magnet, then back in tune with no problems.

Locking tuners do help, so does a properly cut and lubricated nut (hehehe) but nothing is as good at staying in tune and allowing as much up/down movement as a floyd.

Just my opinion, but flamesuit ON

Pete

agreed however, there is one element of mystery behind keeping a strat ( with vintage trem) in tune that i didnt mention in my first post...technique and approach. IMO, You cannot use the same dive bomb approach on a floyd ( which really requires no effort )...u have to work a strat and use your ears and yank on the bar on occasion because the G-string will fall sharp at times. I'm so use to it after years of playing that its a natural thing now that i dont think about and when I am in between songs on stage my intuititon will tell me based off the last trem use, if its out or in and i immdeiatley hone in on it.. I also prefer the trem sound/tone effect of a strat trem vs. Floyd in a big way. I know a friend of mine who bough a jeff beck signature strat and set up exactly like Jeff Beck himself, he had transitioned from a floyd and couldnt keep that guitar in tune to save his life. And as u know Jeff beck couldnt go out of tune on his strat if he tried...he's got it nailed.

Ant

Maybe there is a skill to keeping a guitar in tune, but the thing is, nobody is going to notice until you screw up and it goes out of tune. I'd rather worry about things like note choice, dynamics... the song... instead of having to zone in on the fact that my guitar won't go back into tune and I need to pull a string sharp or do a little dive to get the trem back to it's zero point. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, love my floyds. One of my bands does some Vai and Satriani - vintage or two pivot point trems don't have the range I need in any event. Hooray for Floyd Rose!

Pete

 

[70strathead]

[Truss rod adjustment shouldn't cause a guitar to stay in or out of tune. I have had a few different guitars with Sperzels (Hamer and Charvel USA strats with 2 point trems) and neither would stay in tune as well as a floyded guitar. I haven't seen a vintage or two point trem guitar that I could yank the G string open up to a C, drop it so far that the low E flapped against my humbucker and would get 'stuck' to the magnet, then back in tune with no problems.

Locking tuners do help, so does a properly cut and lubricated nut (hehehe) but nothing is as good at staying in tune and allowing as much up/down movement as a floyd.

Just my opinion, but flamesuit ON

Pete[/quote]

agreed however, there is one element of mystery behind keeping a strat ( with vintage trem) in tune that i didnt mention in my first post...technique and approach. IMO, You cannot use the same dive bomb approach on a floyd ( which really requires no effort )...u have to work a strat and use your ears and yank on the bar on occasion because the G-string will fall sharp at times. I'm so use to it after years of playing that its a natural thing now that i dont think about and when I am in between songs on stage my intuititon will tell me based off the last trem use, if its out or in and i immdeiatley hone in on it.. I also prefer the trem sound/tone effect of a strat trem vs. Floyd in a big way. I know a friend of mine who bough a jeff beck signature strat and set up exactly like Jeff Beck himself, he had transitioned from a floyd and couldnt keep that guitar in tune to save his life. And as u know Jeff beck couldnt go out of tune on his strat if he tried...he's got it nailed.

Ant[/quote]

Maybe there is a skill to keeping a guitar in tune, but the thing is, nobody is going to notice until you screw up and it goes out of tune. I'd rather worry about things like note choice, dynamics... the song... instead of having to zone in on the fact that my guitar won't go back into tune and I need to pull a string sharp or do a little dive to get the trem back to it's zero point. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, love my floyds. One of my bands does some Vai and Satriani - vintage or two pivot point trems don't have the range I need in any event. Hooray for Floyd Rose!

Pete[/quote]

like i said, it's all preference and it's not a worry nor distraction to me as far as interfering with the music elements u mentioned. not at all. I do agree that the satch/Vai will require the floyd, no doubt, but been there done that myself until i wasnt inspired anymore from that style...but party on dude! rock n roll

Ant

 

[timbo]

Speaking of tuners, does anyone make a good set of tuners for a Les Paul that are a direct replacement without modifying the headstock or drilling extra holes?

 

[duesentrieb]

Speaking of tuners, does anyone make a good set of tuners for a Les Paul that are a direct replacement without modifying the headstock or drilling extra holes?

Standard or custom LP?