Doing an inventory for a W/D/W rig, advice needed.

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Here is a list of all things that I own. I am wondering how I utilize all of this stuff since I have never set up a W/D/W rig before.

Main setup consists of these items

VH4
VHT 2150
Egnater M4
Mesa 4x12 dry cab
2 x Port city 1x12 cabs for wet effects
RJM Rack Gizmo
CAE Dual/Stereo Line Mixer
Behringer FCB 1010 Midi Footboard

I have alot of stereo effects processors that I havent even compared against each other yet, so I need to get this rig up and running to instantly compare and make my choices of what stays long term and what to sell off.

The list of stereo effects to run through the wet side for now are...

Eventide Pitchfactor
Eventide Modfactor
Eventide Space
Strymon Blue Sky Reverb
Strymon El Capistan Delay
Lexicon MPX G2
Axe Fx Ultra

I want to know what to do with the other effects that I have that aren't stereo capable, so it would be bad ass if someone could tell me how to throw these theoretically in my chain. These effects are...

Boss NS-2 noise gate
ISP G String noise gate (for the effects loop possibly???)
EQ pedal (still undecided if I need it or where it should be placed)
OD pedals (too many to name)
Keeley 4 knob compressor
Turbo tuner

Also not to be forgotten is a Hilton volume pedal that I bought from a friend that was highly recommended and an expression pedal. I got the expression pedal to do some tweaking some tweaking on the fly with the effects units I bought so I could gauge their being useful in a live setting, so I bought a Mission Engineering pedal for this purpose.

My comprehension of this stuff is pretty vague and I need to account for a few things. I need to know first off if its even necessary to have the CAE Line Mixer to run more than a few of these multi effects units together, which I think I will.

Next question would be, is it necessary to have both the rack gizmo and the CAE to hook up all or most of these stereo effects at the same time, or would I need a splitter of some sort? Im just flat out confused about all of this.

I need to get a rough idea of how many cables to build, so I need to get the diagram planned out for this thing to be able to make measurements and get to work like crazy soldering my TRS cables and a few other speaker cables, odds and ends.

Can someone here, who dosent mind and loves this kind of DIY stuff please help me out putting the diagram together so I can get this thing off the ground? I would appreciate it so much, and thank you in advance!!!
 
I wish someone could help me out... this is a tough crowd around this place.
 
my advice is start small if you intend to do it yourself
one rack device post amp, a few of your favorite pedals in front of the amp

decide what effects/devices you absolutely need first in a live real time scenario
then add on the candy fx one at a time to prioritize and prevent getting into trouble with ground hum/hiss/noise
once you get a clear idea of what fxs you bare minimum need, that is the first step
then it's how to order them, and how much real time control you need

the pile of stuff you listed and trying to strap it all together seems pretty forboding without help from guys like rack systems or la sound design
 
Yeah, your pretty much right. I think I will rephrase then... I will start off with the el capistan, and one of the stereo reverbs for the wet side of things.

I pretty much am having a hard time thinking of where to put the compressor, eq, tuner, noise gates, volume pedal, and I know the OD pedals normally stay out front.

As far as the hookup, I will need to know how to run the power amp out of the VH4. Do you take a cable through one of the speaker outputs from the VH4? I will be running one mesa 4x12 through an 8 ohm spot on the speaker outputs of the VH4, so where does the VHT 2150 hook into? Starting simple helps... and I dont mind to get one question at a time answered, just as long as I get the correct end result. Anyone have the answer so I can get the ball rolling on this?

Thanks, Chad
 
The fx that are mono that you are asking about stereo, don't need to be stereo. All of them would most likely be in a place in the chain before any stereo would be happing. There could be an exception on 1 or 2, but they all are usually mono.

You also don't need that many fx, unless you just WANT that many. The Axe fx would cover everything.

Very simplistic W/D/W would be: 4cable method with the AXE FX with the FX returns going to the 2150.

or your mono pedals in front of the amp, then from the VH4 parallel loop to the AXE FX to the 2150.

You can simply expand from there. Is the 'rack' gizmo a looper or switcher? Assuming a looper since the VH4 is MIDI. RJMhas an FX or AMP gizmo - not a rack gizmo.

If you want to integrated the other stuff it is just a matter of expanding, deciding what order, and also do you want FX in parallel or series? Which in front of the amp, which after? Or both? Lots of ways to tackle this.
 
Yeah RJM has a rack gizmo now... I just bought one and had it made with all stereo inputs on the back to utilize stereo effects. Check it out...

http://www.rjmmusic.com/rackgizmo.php

Would I ever even need the CAE line mixer since I have that?
 
pfapin05":385o1tkm said:
Yeah RJM has a rack gizmo now... I just bought one and had it made with all stereo inputs on the back to utilize stereo effects. Check it out...

http://www.rjmmusic.com/rackgizmo.php

Would I ever even need the CAE line mixer since I have that?
Click to expand...

Ah, ok.

The line mixer and gizmo do 2 entirely different things.

You really need to decide what you want out of the rig before you start putting it together. Easy transportation, versatility, size, making it module, etc.


It's like putting together an aquarium - fresh or salt, fish or reef, combo of both, what type of filtration, lighting needs, etc.

You really have to have a handle on the end result and work backwards. And don't forget power filtering and AC requirements. That can cause or solve a lot of problems. As Mentoneman said start small. here is a reason those rack guys get paid some good $, ;)
 
wdw is awesome but it supposes you already have a good handle on fundamental things like interconnectivity and level setting

so when you ask if its ok to take a speaker out into your effects it raises red flags which make answering questions further down the line sorta moot because if you arent 1000 percent clear on signal paths you could fry your gear

i do want to help you because wdw or wd rules and you'll live it but a little more homework and experimentation on your part is mandatory so you can even ask the right questions

i love my tc flashback in mono in front of my dry amp and gforce which i am feeding post amp (no loop) by pulling a line level output from my thd hotplate

landau processed one side of his wet chain differently than the other side
 
You may need to buy more crap! :lol: :LOL: Or atleast to make the VH4 work right, don't know what the Egnater is.

I use a Suhr Line out box to do the WDW. The line out box sends the sound of your amp, power amp sounds included to your wet power amp.


So you could run your VH4 with a line out box and your 4x12, send the signal from the line out box to your effects and then into your power amp. The line out box is mono, so you'll need something to make it stereo, which you can probably do with several of your effects. I use a ABY box to get mine to stereo, mostly because it's what i had laying around.


Most of the stuff you listed that isn't stereo, could go in front of your amp. Noise gates and tuner for sure. don't know if you'll need a gate for your effects? I just us an ISP in front, and that's it.


For now, just start playing with your stuff through the VH4 loop, and start checking it out.
 
Thanks guys, and your right... it might require some research on my part to understand things more in depth about this without frying my gear, this I do understand. Thats why I come here, because you guys have alot of firsthand knowledge and are really cool about answering some questions like mine. I wish I could afford to send most of this out to someone who would hook it all up proper, but I feel like I will never learn anything in life that way and also what if the Axe FX really is all I needed and the other effects became classified material? That would be expensive and pointless for me to ship the stuff and pay to have it put together then just for me to use the Axe only for effects.

I just wanted to start simple with what I have first, which is to get my VH4 to properly feed out into my VHT 2150, and one stereo effect at a time to test each one out... all of course into a Mesa 4x12 8 ohm load for dry, and two 1x12 cabs each with an 8 ohm speaker for each side of the VHT. Does anyone know how that should be hooked up properly from Amp/poweramp/stereo effects/cabs without frying anything in the VH4 or VHT? I would really appreciate a proper start to get dabbling into a W/D/W setup. Let me know what I have to do such as draw up diagrams of the back of my gear or something so you can easily see what your working with, or whatever I can do to help out.

Thanks, Chad
 
Use the VH4 parallel loop to your fx. FX to 2150. You don't have to use the return of the VH4 loop because it is parallel. So, VH4 speaker out to 4x12 =dry. VH4 loop send to fx, fx to 2150, 2150 to 1x12s.

With the Axe FX there are stereo outs to feed each channel of the 2150. Not sure about all those different Strymons. If they have stereo outs easy breezy - hook it up just as if it was the Axe Fx. If they are mono out then you'll need a spitter to the 2150.

Really simple to start with that.
 
Hell yeah, thank you for that... I hope to be able to tackle the RJM down the line here pretty soon. My question is since I already bought that RJM for a 2 amp setup between the VH4 and another amp I have... is that CAE line mixer just something that I will need to put away for good or sell off?

Thank you again!
 
Start by plugging ur vh4 into a cab. Then ur vht 2150 into (2) 1x12 cabs
That protects the amps loads.

Ur line out on ur vh4 would go to the axe. Make sure the line level is all the way down on the vh4. I'm not sure which input on the back of the axe gets used so read the Manual. Even if you run mono out of ur vh4 into the axe and use stereo effect in the axe u will have stereo wet sound.

Keep the m4 preamp and maybe a few dirt pedals if that is ur thing and sell everything else off and put the cash in the bank. You will get all the effects u need out of the axe.
 
the cae mixer is worth keeping

you would want it if you intend to use multiple rack effect/stereo effects in a parallel configuration

this means taking your "dry" tone, which in your case means
gtr->compressor/overdrive/boost/eq/and any pedal effect you want before the amp->axefx preamp in->axefx preamp out->VH4 in->parallel loop fx send->noise gate->

at this point you would send this "dry" line level signal to a device which can split (aka splitter) the signal to multiple simultaneous destinations

so if you had 3 stereo devices you wanted to feed you'd want a 1 in/ 3 out splitter to feed the devices
and then you'd combine the 3 pairs of stereo outputs from your effects in PARALLEL into a 6 channel mixer, to combine and sum down to a final stereo pair which then connects to stereo power amp
you will use your effects device level controls to balance the volumes between effects and the mixer volume controls to balance wet versus dry levels

the other way to run fx are in "series" or just chaining the output of one device into the input of the next. easy because you dont have to split/mix but can get noisy and potentially tweak your signal every time you A/D- D/A convert your tone

from experience having run the axefx wdw, the 4 cable method converts your signal A/D going in, D/A going out the first time through the fx send, A/D second time going back in to the return, and D/A sencond time through the main outputs.
for me that equalled noise and that telltale waxy digital disconnection i didnt dig.


as rigs get bigger, the preservation of tone and feel, switching speed, and noise
management become key.
 
So how did you achieve the best tone with the Axe FX if the 4 cable method didnt work out that great for you? I might just simply start off using the Axe for effects only and bypass the modelling, and would like to know you opinion on how not to run into what you did.
 
shark mentioned parallel fx loop on vh4

this means instead of traditional series fx loop which needs to physically have the send connected to the return to complete the signal path to the power section of the amp

the parallel loop is an additional path running concurrent to the main preamp/power amp path and allows you to layer fx alongside your dry tone without altering your core signal
drawbacks are fx designed to procees the entire signal like tremolo, gates, eq, modulation filters, can lose effectiveness or manifest strange results, phase error, etc especially if you arent killing the dry signal passing through the unit

(ive mixed at venues where house operators dont understand this principle, mixing dry signal in vocal reverb unit improperly, and the ensuing conversation trying to convince house guy i need to reprogram the fx setup can really get interesting)

similarly, running your 3 stereo fx in parallel means 3 stereo fx paths running alongside one another

axe fx as fx only, fed by the parallel loop out of the vh4 would be a good place to start
and in this config you can actually experiment with mixing a little dry signal in with the wet cabs
 
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