Early Mark IIB coliseum serials

D

dr teeth

Active member
First posting here and I'm hunting coli info (duck season shoot!).
I have a non-K coli KRG head with the 15" serial 58x. It's not dated but there are filters dated Thanksgiving 1980 so likely Dec '80-Feb '81. For dates, I have Charlie Daniel's 61x HRG combo 10/5/1981 and have seen pics of 625, a HR loop modded with born on 1/19/82. Not many LC's (75 supposedly) for a year and a half of B's.
In my archives the earliest K I can find is K110, a 4/14/81 KRG.
I have K17x (8/26/81 K) and both of Charlie's K22x (12/28/81) and K23x (1/16/82). He slaved one into the other.

But I have never seen any serials pre K100- do they exist?
A palisade mb junkie who I confer with also has never seen one and between he and I we've seen and owned many marks.
Who if anyone has a K0xx and if so, what date?

I also have a 60w loop mod B so you might say I like the B with 6. Nothing against the C/C+/III rainbow/IV (all of which I own) but the B into 800 watts of 12L's is like playing in a wind tunnel of smiles. Until recently that's been fortunate for the wallet. My EE theory is the more capacitors, the more compression. IME the progression of marks got more tight, more compressed as the pcb's got bigger and more packed. I get the sitting in the mix, higher RMS without blowing drivers, and recording advantages of compression but have always preferred wide open raw power of the very simple B preamp and maybe the best power section of all the marks. I'm slowly restoring A70x so at some point I'll get to try the OG mark.

Can you picture that?
 
Welcome to the jungle! After years of keeping my eyes out for them, I also have never seen, nor heard, any report of a sub-100 K serial, although Mesa‘s site lists the range as K1-336. I suspect they exist, but….

You‘ve got a great stable there! I‘ve been through a slew of Marks over the years and like you prefer the IIB to be my fave due to its rawness and openness. Having had quite a few IIB’s, I “settled” on a late IIB KRG as the King … that power section is the shit! Close second was a 15” HRG that I had loop-modded (61X, like yours dated 8/24/81) - that amp stayed in my “family” going to a good friend.

Maybe someone else knows of a sub-100 K?
 
The B's are magical in my not so humble opinion. Just ask Brad Whitford as I understand a couple of his hardwood coli's just traded hands. My very first concert was Rose Tattoo and Pat Travers opening for the great winged =Boston band=, so he may have played thru them in my 1st beautiful ear-splitting experience (1983).
I'll reserve judgement but I'm having my doubts of sub K100. Since you've been thru several B's, do you know if there was a rp9b/sp9b? I assume your late B is 9c.
I'm going to start a preamp board thread but I have the sp/rp 9a and 9c, no 9b. My pre-K coli is rp 8a - does anyone else have a coli with a rp/sp-8?
I'm trying to figure out if petaluma just grabbed a long chassis plate instead of the K, if it was an experiment that led to K or if it just predates the K back plates being in stock. On that note, does anyone have a 1980 dated K?
 
I had non K #81. Very vintage sounding, very loose in the lows and did not like any of my boost pedals I had, but this was in 2015 before I had many in house. I think all I had was a Dano fish n chips eq and an Ultimate Drive. No limit knob so it was a beast hard to tame. I did gig with it a couple times and the drummer hated me for the volume lol..and I barely cracked it. Ended up returning it to a GC when the standby switch went poof. Later I grabbed another in the 150 range and B+ it; sold that and ended up with a very late 2B that became a C+. The late 2B was #K34x and I assumed it was a C. But no. It was though, very tight and super gainy..like a Mark 3 really. It had the RP9C pre board. I don’t remember what boards the earlier ones had.
 
With a little help from a member likely to chime in here sooner than later I picked up 3 B's from Charlie's estate (2 coli heads with STR-425's, one HRG combo with JBL K130). Not sure I'll be able to keep all my B coli's but for now I have them. It really depends on if I can move some NOS mf-104m delays and other moogers/mini's I have stashed.

Thank you Tom (I believe) even tho you don't know me. I followed your venture with Jeremy on the K33x/K34x, your pre amp swap, and he told me you had a non-K weird number in the 80's when I started trying to date the early K's.
Would love to look inside that one.
 
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There were RP/SP9B boards, but pretty short-lived. IIRC, they appeared in early ‘82, and then were pretty quickly replaced by the 9C.

Yes, my KRG is a 9C. It was built as C’s were going into production in ‘83. Passes the loop test, too (Not loop-modded).

In all likelihood, your 58X was just what you said: Mesa just grabbed a long chassis back plate stamped for an H and made a K. There were a lot of odd things that would happen in those days… my KRG is not the only one with my K33X serial. There’s another one just like it out in the world.
 
dr teeth said:
With a little help from a member likely to chime in here sooner than later I picked up 3 B's from Charlie's estate (2 coli heads with STR-425's, one HRG combo with JBL K140). Not sure I'll be able to keep all my B coli's but for now I have them. It really depends on if I can move some NOS mf-104m delays and other moogers/mini's I have stashed.

Thank you Tom (I believe) even tho you don't know me. I followed your venture with Jeremy on the K33x/K34x, your pre amp swap, and he told me you had a non-K weird number in the 80's when I started trying to date the early K's.
Would love to look inside that one.
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That was a great sounding one; as was an HRG 2B combo I had. There’s something about a vintage type tone that just sounds better; more alive maybe. Both that early Coli and 2B combo had ‘it’. I think I paid 799 for the Coli back in 2015? It’s another in a long list of ‘shoulda kept it’ lol
 
IIBornotIIB said:
There were RP/SP9B boards, but pretty short-lived. IIRC, they appeared in early ‘82, and then were pretty quickly replaced by the 9C.

Yes, my KRG is a 9C. It was built as C’s were going into production in ‘83. Passes the loop test, too (Not loop-modded).

In all likelihood, your 58X was just what you said: Mesa just grabbed a long chassis back plate stamped for an H and made a K. There were a lot of odd things that would happen in those days… my KRG is not the only one with my K33X serial. There’s another one just like it out in the world.
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There’s always some ‘anomalies’ out there with vintage gear. That late 2B Coli, with K34x should have been a 2C. Like vintage Marshalls; I have a 67 JMP 50T and have learned that 1968 SLs can be 10xxx or 12xxx, and that Marshall might have used the same serial# twice in the same year, but with different versions like a Trem vs a Superlead. Anomalies exist for sure. That early Coli had the Series 300 sticker; but no K and just 81 etched in.
 
IIBornot: Awesome and thank you. I assumed the 2nd Charlie coli was sp9a like it's brother but I never pulled it. Looks like I'll be doing that today to see if it is a sp9b now that I know they exist.
I still doubt the factory would send Charlie 2 different pcb's on what looks to be the same order but who knows?
 
All right, if it's not in some dead guy's (or girl's) closet, who's got Racer's old coli out there?
Better and great are subjective and pieces of the whole signal chain of course, but I attribute that "alive" to the lack of compression. I remember in school that when you make LPF/HPF (filters) the slope of your roll off is how many capacitors you use and I believe there is a tonal cost for every capacitor you use, albeit useful in many cases. Speed metal is not my bag so I don't need that level of articulation. My bag is green and sticky :)

I still have yet to play a superlead/bass. It's back back burner project for some day. I can't justify the price when I see what looks like a grade school EE breadboard with some caps/R's hand soldered on so I'll go kit unless one falls in my lap.

I remember one lab where we designed a pcb of our own choosing for a local company to make a pcb from the software design. I'm kinda surprised with as simple as it is (with the drop and drag software) no one has made the RP-11 and unscrupulously put it on the market. I've thought about it just for myself but house projects are like kittens that I can't give away. And I have a KRG plus already (K41x) but I still think it would be fun to do. In a nod to Doug West I would do it without the GEQ and without Mesa's underwhelming reverb.
 
dr teeth said:
With a little help from a member likely to chime in here sooner than later I picked up 3 B's from Charlie's estate (2 coli heads with STR-425's, one HRG combo with JBL K140). Not sure I'll be able to keep all my B coli's but for now I have them. It really depends on if I can move some NOS mf-104m delays and other moogers/mini's I have stashed.

Thank you Tom (I believe) even tho you don't know me. I followed your venture with Jeremy on the K33x/K34x, your pre amp swap, and he told me you had a non-K weird number in the 80's when I started trying to date the early K's.
Would love to look inside that one.
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Yo dr teeth! That member would be me and welcome to Rigtalk! Any friend of Jeremy’s is a friend of mine, and I’m glad that worked out for you. That was a amazing estate sale and there were many killer deals to be had. My buddy Jerry came home with a ton of rack gear, vintage mics, monitors, and a few amps. CD had an awesome studio and gear collection for certain...
 
I owe you and Jeremy some beers for sure. Might have to break out the bourbon.

I remember the super lead which had sold and the handful of EV mics that were very tempting, maybe RE-20's? They also had the 80's halfback of 4x12L's that went with the coli's. I had just picked an original '82 up tho exactly loaded from the factory given the date codes on top of another 412 halfback I previously beefed up (it had 35 good years and the baffle board was not ready for 4 EV's).

I'm a little overboard with the 12L's admittingly. My latest cab with them is stalled out waiting to find the 2 little speaker nuts I misplaced when removing the t4335's from an OS recto 4x12. I'll post pics when I find them. The little #8 bolts were not going to hold the EV's. I bought longer #8 bolts since the baffle was already tapped with them and installed #10 t-nuts for the main load in between Mesa's bolts. I ohm matched 4 of black shadow labelled 12L's and everything is waiting on 2 little nuts for my 4EB conversion. I'd like to see the inside of a factory 4EB to see how they did it but have only ever come across one.
 
dr teeth said:
I owe you and Jeremy some beers for sure. Might have to break out the bourbon.

I remember the super lead which had sold and the handful of EV mics that were very tempting, maybe RE-20's? They also had the 80's halfback of 4x12L's that went with the coli's. I had just picked an original '82 up tho exactly loaded from the factory given the date codes on top of another 412 halfback I previously beefed up (it had 35 good years and the baffle board was not ready for 4 EV's).

I'm a little overboard with the 12L's admittingly. My latest cab with them is stalled out waiting to find the 2 little speaker nuts I misplaced when removing the t4335's from an OS recto 4x12. I'll post pics when I find them. The little #8 bolts were not going to hold the EV's. I bought longer #8 bolts since the baffle was already tapped with them and installed #10 t-nuts for the main load in between Mesa's bolts. I ohm matched 4 of black shadow labelled 12L's and everything is waiting on 2 little nuts for my 4EB conversion. I'd like to see the inside of a factory 4EB to see how they did it but have only ever come across one.
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Have you tried the C90/EV combo? I have 1 halfback 412 with them and I liked it far more than the EV 212 that I had with the Colis. At least for heavier stuff. They need power to open up and do their thing but man it sounds killer.
 
Love running my 1x15 KRG in tandem with the MC90/EVM 4x12... blows your hair back!

1648157603014.png

(edit: MC90, not C90)
 
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Yes! and Yes! And EV's are usually hate or love (thank you Jeremy for not being in the camp and converting so many combos into heads!)

I have that EV/MC halfback and the EV bottom / mesa V30 top halfback. I kept a 2x12 halfback with the VS12 on bottom / MC90 up top stock also. I personally think the MC90 is about the best all around speaker made for the fact it does really well in almost any signal chain and for such a subjective thing like drivers it has a universal appeal.

I went deep in the speaker rabbit hole. It was after I did a Mesa 1x12 shootout between about 8 cabs. For the record the TA wide cab with a blue and the theile's with the 12L and MC90 were the winners. Anything with the 12L and MC90 was good but I found I don't like the 19" open in general.

That spurred me to get a 60W blue cab so I found a 3/4 back 4CB to convert. As good as that is (and really needs to be a full stack for 120W handling) I felt bad pulling the MC90's out it sounded so incredible. They are rare but grab one if you can (and sell it to me!). I picked up a LS 4CB but I would still take 2 more stock 3/4 back if it came along, one to convert to MS-12's cuz I'm really curious.

I have since added an altec 12S, mesa v30, proline 12L, proline 12S? ( a "vitage 12L" stamped I still haven't settled on which variant it is) and redback theile and one of these days I'll do a 806 shootout after I get one more for the EV DL series. Maybe a force too. Then there's the ED/RA back ported cabs........ so many wabbit holes.

I swapped the v30's out of a trad recto 4x12 for redbacks the same time I got a S IIC (no plus). The pairing sounds so great it deserves a mention and was the reason I put one in a thiele.
 
I had a ‘road ready’ straight cab with MS12s…they kinda sounded like flat G12 65s; not a bad thing but not my favorite.
 
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