Editing Drums

BeZo

BeZo

Well-known member
I recorded my band over the weekend, starting with the drums. We all played together to get the feel, but the bass and synth were DI and the guitar cab was mic'ed up facing the wall with a bunch of couch cushions between it and the wall. I didn't really get any bleed in the room, and the sounds came out great. We played to a click map, but the drummer isn't strong with timing.

That said, he did pretty good. I've been playing with the guy for a few years now, and this is the best performance I've ever gotten out of him. 90% of it was pretty spot on, but I need to fix the other 10%. Editing drums is a fucking chore though. I got three of the four songs really tight with the map, and they sound great. I need to do one more. (It doesn't help that all our songs are 10+ minutes long)

Anyone else ever had the pleasure of editing a sub-par drum performance onto a grid, or am I insane?
 
It depends how bad it is really, nudging over or replacing a couple snare and kick hits isn’t too bad, if his timing is really all over the axe though and now overheads become a problem it can get tricky
 
RaceU4her said:
It depends how bad it is really, nudging over or replacing a couple snare and kick hits isn’t too bad, if his timing is really all over the axe though and now overheads become a problem it can get tricky
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I edit all of the drums as one. If I move something, I move all the tracks. Reaper is pretty easy to work with, and there are some tricks and tools to use.

There was only a couple spots where I had to fix a flub. He missed a snare hit and I just took one from the second pass or stuff like that. He's like 90% on. I'm just being meticulous.
 
The grid is suicide. Makes everything sound too good and your song will lose energy so I'd be careful of doing that. Now that said, were you not able to record using a lanes feature in your daw of choice?? Reaper's lanes function is game changer.You could have taken 5 performances and essentially cut them up and selected them into a cohesive single performance. A lot like what they would have done with tape back in the day. then you could also take the time before the recording to get the drummer to give you all individual hits so you could use as needed. It would be of the same performance so no weird phase issues. You could use something like Slate Trigger but with your own kit's samples to fix those snare flubs or rims in an otherwise good/perfect performance.
 
I have everything gated and usually put a hpf around 350hz, that way I don’t have to move every track and don’t run into phase problems. I’m no drum editor though, I’ve kind of purposely stayed away from learning the proper ways as to not sound like a computer
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
The grid is suicide. Makes everything sound too good and your song will lose energy so I'd be careful of doing that. Now that said, were you not able to record using a lanes feature in your daw of choice?? Reaper's lanes function is game changer.You could have taken 5 performances and essentially cut them up and selected them into a cohesive single performance. A lot like what they would have done with tape back in the day. then you could also take the time before the recording to get the drummer to give you all individual hits so you could use as needed. It would be of the same performance so no weird phase issues. You could use something like Slate Trigger but with your own kit's samples to fix those snare flubs or rims in an otherwise good/perfect performance.
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The reason the grid kills feeling is that people forget that music expresses emotion. Just like your heart rate differs when you feel different feelings, the tempo of a song should fluctuate. That's why I try to fit the tempo map to the song, and not the song to a tempo. If we set the metronome to 120 (or in our case 80) and go, it loses its feeling. Instead, I bump up the tempo for heavy parts and back down for clean parts. In one of our songs, the tempo ramps up almost 20 BPM to throughout the bridge section, just to plateau at a crescendo with a bunch of energy, and then drop into the intro riff back at the original tempo. If you listen to the tempo map by itself, you feel that, let alone with the music and lyrics in there.
 
BeZo said:
The reason the grid kills feeling is that people forget that music expresses emotion. Just like your heart rate differs when you feel different feelings, the tempo of a song should fluctuate. That's why I try to fit the tempo map to the song, and not the song to a tempo. If we set the metronome to 120 (or in our case 80) and go, it loses its feeling. Instead, I bump up the tempo for heavy parts and back down for clean parts. In one of our songs, the tempo ramps up almost 20 BPM to throughout the bridge section, just to plateau at a crescendo with a bunch of energy, and then drop into the intro riff back at the original tempo. If you listen to the tempo map by itself, you feel that, let alone with the music and lyrics in there.
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I agree with the metronome.. I have a hell of a time playing my own stuff to a metronome. I find I end up rushing when I play drums and guitars and it ends up feeling off. At some point I drift. So I wonder if that in part is also why music now feels so stale with this insistence on the metronome vs the natural metronome while playing. I should try ditching the metronome.
 
BeZo said:
No, but we're going to do a bunch of stuff with MIDI when we get to the synths. That's why I prioritized being on the grid.

Besides, real drums sound better. I don't want to sound like everyone else.
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Oh I totally agree and was just being silly. I’m just jeolous you got a drummer, that’s all lol.
 
phillybhatesme said:
Oh I totally agree and was just being silly. I’m just jeolous you got a drummer, that’s all lol.
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I had converted my acoustic kit to electric and was back after about 6 months. Hated the cymbals. They just don't track properly even with really good software like SD3. Hat dynamics are a huge problem and I don't know why, but the crashes always sound like shit. They all sound similar and stand out. I have a buddy who records his drums with midi but then goes back over and mics his crash and hi hat and plays that then sync's it all up because he also hates how the cymbals sound. Once you play drums, it's hard to accept plugin cymbal sounds.
 
phillybhatesme said:
Oh I totally agree and was just being silly. I’m just jeolous you got a drummer, that’s all lol.
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That's the thing. He fits the bill, we all get along, he books shows and has connections in the scene, and he has a lot of experience in that genre, and he's an all around good dude. He just rushes his fills. That's why I'm trying to make it easy on him and getting him as comfortable as possible to get the best out of him. We've had some tense moments over it in the past, and I don't want to trigger his anxiety. I'll get what I can out of him and edit it to my standards.

That said, I'm 13 hours in and I think I have it pretty close. I submit it for approval at tonight's rehearsal. Any re-recording will happen tonight. We'll see what the band says.
 
BeZo said:
That's the thing. He fits the bill, we all get along, he books shows and has connections in the scene, and he has a lot of experience in that genre, and he's an all around good dude. He just rushes his fills. That's why I'm trying to make it easy on him and getting him as comfortable as possible to get the best out of him. We've had some tense moments over it in the past, and I don't want to trigger his anxiety. I'll get what I can out of him and edit it to my standards.

That said, I'm 13 hours in and I think I have it pretty close. I submit it for approval at tonight's rehearsal. Any re-recording will happen tonight. We'll see what the band says.
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i feel for you man, as ive been in this exact same situation with 3 or 4 guys, and its literally a fucking nightmare that made me hate being in bands, and the main reason i built my own studio. Rushing fills in my mind is something easily fixable with just a little bit of practice with a metronome, i wouldnt be able to deal. ive spent and paid for full days in real studios watching guys play one song fucked up 30 times in a row only to be embarrassed by the engineer saying yeah theres nothing i can do with this. recording should be a fun process, it was never anything but stress for me
 
I had him re-record a part yesterday and I have one last half of a song to do. I think he was offended when I showed him his weak and missed snare hits, so he played a lot harder this time. I think it will work out. Just a few more hours of work and I'll finally be done with drums.

...and on to Guitars!
 
BeZo said:
I had him re-record a part yesterday and I have one last half of a song to do. I think he was offended when I showed him his weak and missed snare hits, so he played a lot harder this time. I think it will work out. Just a few more hours of work and I'll finally be done with drums.

...and on to Guitars!
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So I eluded to this in another post, but had you captured individual hits? Because an otherwise good performance but with inconsistent hitting on the snare (weak hits, non centered) can be assisted by a separate track where you just overlay with these good hits, Just paste them below where the weak hits are in a parralel track and let it go. Bus it all to same processing for the snare and you don't have to worry so much about that and just focus on fills. I mean, snare layering has been happening as far back as the mid to late 80's. You can hear it on a lot of hair band records as that snare sounds the exact same half the time.You can't tell me Rikki Rocket was that consistent when he started lol.
 
BeZo said:
I think he was offended when I showed him his weak and missed snare hits, so he played a lot harder this time.
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they really are all the same :ROFLMAO: what kind of drum mics and set up you using??
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
So I eluded to this in another post, but had you captured individual hits? Because an otherwise good performance but with inconsistent hitting on the snare (weak hits, non centered) can be assisted by a separate track where you just overlay with these good hits, Just paste them below where the weak hits are in a parralel track and let it go. Bus it all to same processing for the snare and you don't have to worry so much about that and just focus on fills. I mean, snare layering has been happening as far back as the mid to late 80's. You can hear it on a lot of hair band records as that snare sounds the exact same half the time.You can't tell me Rikki Rocket was that consistent when he started lol.
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The whole section was kinda weak. It was easier to get him to redo it.

I get what you are saying though. That's a dozen tracks to mess with when I could (should) just have him do it better.
 
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