AmpliFIRE
Well-known member
What's the deal with these amps? Most of the clips I've heard sound a bit buzzy/fuzzy with a harshness to the high end...
ejecta
Active member
I had a M60 that wasnt buzzy or fuzzy at all. Ive read that M90 is more aggressive so maybe thats what you are hearing.
AmpliFIRE
Well-known member
ejecta":zo0zt168 said:
Cool..what did you think of the M60?
AmpliFIRE
Well-known member
donbarzini":h05rv9h2 said:
"barely on"?
ejecta
Active member
AmpliFIRE":2h0ctv2y said:
I thought it was very cool. I would have one again in a heart beat.
AmpliFIRE
Well-known member
ejecta":3nxk3pxv said:
Care to elaborate
ejecta
Active member
AmpliFIRE":1qct85nl said:ejecta":1qct85nl said:
Care to elaborate
Out of alot of the modern channel switchers I had. The Bogner XTC and M60 were my two favorite. M60 was smooth but still cut, not overly compressed, loved the way the boosts worked on the channels especially the clean boosted was better than hitting it with a pedal for a boost.
T
Tone Merchant
Active member
These are incredible, versatile amps. They are not buzzy at all and have a unique low end voice. They sound fantastic at low volumes and sound huge when cranked. In high gain mode the amp can be dialed in for really smooth liquid leads or punishing dropped tuned power chords. Elmwood states it a 2 channel amp, but its really like 4. I have a M90 head and the new rack mount M60 at the shop. me Love the Elmwoods
H
Hard&Heavy
New member
I just got my M-90 about a month ago.It is not at all fuzzy.The lead tones are fantastic,the cleans are sweet ,and the high gain side is very articulate.The amp really respones to your picking ...Somtimes it is hard to tell what amps sound like on mp3's.... 
King Guitar
Banned
New member
M90 was not fuzzy and I had the pleasure to hang and chat with Jan at Robs shop (Tone Merchants) during NAMM and he was a really good guy who knew his stuff
J
joshsage
Member
Thoughts regarding the M90:
The good:
1. Easy to get a good tone, the instant gratification factor is there. Cleans are awesome, are so is the drive that the amp has.
2. Lightly driven clean tone.. its all about this right here
This is the clean channel with the boost and it absolutely kills.
3. The controls cover a LOT of ground. The sweep on the eq controls are huge letting you have more control over what occurs in the preamp section of the amplifier
4. Well designed, usable parallel loop. Clear and clean loop, no problems to date.
5. New amp, new tone, from the ground up. Unlike some people building amps, this amplifier was a new design from the ground up, with that it has a different tone and different feel than other amps out there. It has and "Elmwood" tone. This is cool in itself. Its not like getting a marshall style amp to do a marshall tone, that is built on the platform of a marshall. What you get is different.
6. KT88's, get it if this is what you want. Keep in mind, 88's are more hifi, honest, and well just stiffer. Absolutely not in a bad way at all. As some people may not like this as much, this is really a selling/buying point in the amp. People that want a more responsive, faster amp, this is their choice. It does what you want it to instantly as you do it. No sag like some amps, which some people want some give, it accents their playing and gives them the character, dynamics, and tone when they play. Key word, dynamics... For responsiveness and playing with a volume knob, I say go M60, but I'll get to that soon.
7. Drive boost option. Yes yes, essentially you can pull 4 tones out of this amp...no it is not a four channel. I don't fully consider something to have SEPARATE channels unless it has SEPARATE EQ. Yes you SLO people, I said it!!!! Not saying I dislike slo's. Hell, even the wizards don't have separate eq's for their separate "channels..". Nowadays, somethings just work regardless. When the drive button is engaged, it stacks more gain. I am not sure the exact process of it doing this, but it feels to me as if it boosts it beforehand. Again, I don't know exactly what is going on but its like a boost in front of the amp. Hit it, and boom, boosted. Ok, so those of you who have boosted a clean channel, what happens, YES, it gets louder! You add gain to a clean signal and it will get louder, everytime. You can boost a dirty channel and it won't have the volume jump because you are already overdriving/distorting the signal with too much gain as it is.
Elmwood fixed this by putting a volume control on the clean channel to give it a level and drive control when the clean drive is engaged. This in turn, for better design allowed you to drive the clean channel, and maintain its killer low volume tones. The 2nd channel, did not need it, therefore it is not there, if you want a higher volume on the boost. You can set the master1 control to go tandem with the boost, and when you hit the boost you can get a volume increase, yes they thought of that too, nice guys huh?
Now, the EQ mess that always happens when adding a boost. Usually one would have a tone control. This comes down to trusting Jan Alm's (the builder) ears. He has got the EQ somewhat set that is still working with the channel EQ. He makes sure the tone is still there and there isn't a need to change the EQ between normal and the added drive option. You hit the drive button, and it doesnt get muddy, it doesnt get ice picky... it just gets more aggressive. No detrimental effects to your tone when running the drive. They hit this one on the head, and its one of my favorite things about the Elmwood.
8. "Barely on" - Need I say more... Low volume, they slay, both the 60 and 90. Some contest to say the 60 is better, even peter at elmwood. I find the 90 to kick plenty of ass for the bedroom uses.. No problems.
9. Warranty. So you got a swedish made amp, what the hell are you gonna do if you ever have a problem? You call me, Call Rob at tone merchants. Even call Elmwood, we don't care. My calls go to my cell, when I am not in the office. Rob has Voicemail, as does Elmwood. If you need us, we gotcha. All new amps purchased come with a lifetime warranty. We got your back!
10. Questions/Concerns? See above, we are here for ya.
11. In the band mix, yes it cuts, and it sounds huge. AmpAddict... he can vouch for this one. As well as his sound guy. I have some clips of them in a band mix. They cut.
12. Single control for dual master volumes. You set the proportion between the two and then control both from one knob. It raises/lowers the masters, IN PROPORTION! Great idea! Nice on stage, can be a pain at home...
The Bad:
1. 88s, yes the dark side of the 88's... If you are not a technical, precise guitar player, it will let you know your faults. It doesn't cover up as much and it is HONEST.
2. Softer Tolex. This matters to some. The tolex is gorgeous on these amps. however it is softer and more sensitive. It is more like a leather type. Pleather with a texture
but a lot nicer than tolex... also known as vinyl.
3. The damn plexiglass frontpanel. If you aren't careful taking the amp out of the chassis, if you put the knobs too far on, or if you just so happen to have it shipped to you and those dirty damn brown gorillas drop it, it can crack. For all other purposes, its fine. Just keep this in mind, it WILL piss you off when you do it.
4. Internal bias, and have to move a daughterboard. This isn't bad but it can be scary for some poking around in their 3600 dollar amp. Some just don't like taking boards out of their amp, dont blame em. I am here to talk you thru it as is peter, and other members here who have done the same.
5. Expensive....
________________________________________________________
M60 vs M90
1) Tubes, EL34's vs 88's
34's - Stronger sweeter mids (more cut), Mellower lows ( looser less present bottom end), not as bright top end, easier to play, covers more mistakes, has more give to the amp. Also, better for people who play with the volume knob, less compression, and more dynamics.
88's - boomier bottom, brighter top, faster response/attack, more compression, more modern tone.
2) Special design transformer and preamp section to make the 90 a bit more aggressive/modern along with the 88's
3) 90 has a heat fan to dissipate heat from the hot ass huge 88's. No there are no heat problems, and the fan is there as precautionary. No it does not affect tone or create noise.
If I am forgetting anything please add to it! If you are considering one new or used, please take the time and listen to the clips. They are a great amp to have, and the people who own them are also glad to speak anytime regarding tube changes, settings, whatever....
Also note I found them to match up best to V30 cabs, I particularly like front loads, like the elmwood cabs, but any front loaded cab should suffice. V30s are the key ingredient however.
Thanks and good luck in your decisions, as I said, New or Used, from dealer or a member classified ad, we are here to talk, and discuss to ensure and amp is a right or wrong fit. I hope this post helps you.
Good luck!
Josh
The good:
1. Easy to get a good tone, the instant gratification factor is there. Cleans are awesome, are so is the drive that the amp has.
2. Lightly driven clean tone.. its all about this right here
This is the clean channel with the boost and it absolutely kills.
3. The controls cover a LOT of ground. The sweep on the eq controls are huge letting you have more control over what occurs in the preamp section of the amplifier
4. Well designed, usable parallel loop. Clear and clean loop, no problems to date.
5. New amp, new tone, from the ground up. Unlike some people building amps, this amplifier was a new design from the ground up, with that it has a different tone and different feel than other amps out there. It has and "Elmwood" tone. This is cool in itself. Its not like getting a marshall style amp to do a marshall tone, that is built on the platform of a marshall. What you get is different.
6. KT88's, get it if this is what you want. Keep in mind, 88's are more hifi, honest, and well just stiffer. Absolutely not in a bad way at all. As some people may not like this as much, this is really a selling/buying point in the amp. People that want a more responsive, faster amp, this is their choice. It does what you want it to instantly as you do it. No sag like some amps, which some people want some give, it accents their playing and gives them the character, dynamics, and tone when they play. Key word, dynamics... For responsiveness and playing with a volume knob, I say go M60, but I'll get to that soon.
7. Drive boost option. Yes yes, essentially you can pull 4 tones out of this amp...no it is not a four channel. I don't fully consider something to have SEPARATE channels unless it has SEPARATE EQ. Yes you SLO people, I said it!!!! Not saying I dislike slo's. Hell, even the wizards don't have separate eq's for their separate "channels..". Nowadays, somethings just work regardless. When the drive button is engaged, it stacks more gain. I am not sure the exact process of it doing this, but it feels to me as if it boosts it beforehand. Again, I don't know exactly what is going on but its like a boost in front of the amp. Hit it, and boom, boosted. Ok, so those of you who have boosted a clean channel, what happens, YES, it gets louder! You add gain to a clean signal and it will get louder, everytime. You can boost a dirty channel and it won't have the volume jump because you are already overdriving/distorting the signal with too much gain as it is.
Elmwood fixed this by putting a volume control on the clean channel to give it a level and drive control when the clean drive is engaged. This in turn, for better design allowed you to drive the clean channel, and maintain its killer low volume tones. The 2nd channel, did not need it, therefore it is not there, if you want a higher volume on the boost. You can set the master1 control to go tandem with the boost, and when you hit the boost you can get a volume increase, yes they thought of that too, nice guys huh?
Now, the EQ mess that always happens when adding a boost. Usually one would have a tone control. This comes down to trusting Jan Alm's (the builder) ears. He has got the EQ somewhat set that is still working with the channel EQ. He makes sure the tone is still there and there isn't a need to change the EQ between normal and the added drive option. You hit the drive button, and it doesnt get muddy, it doesnt get ice picky... it just gets more aggressive. No detrimental effects to your tone when running the drive. They hit this one on the head, and its one of my favorite things about the Elmwood.
8. "Barely on" - Need I say more... Low volume, they slay, both the 60 and 90. Some contest to say the 60 is better, even peter at elmwood. I find the 90 to kick plenty of ass for the bedroom uses.. No problems.
9. Warranty. So you got a swedish made amp, what the hell are you gonna do if you ever have a problem? You call me, Call Rob at tone merchants. Even call Elmwood, we don't care. My calls go to my cell, when I am not in the office. Rob has Voicemail, as does Elmwood. If you need us, we gotcha. All new amps purchased come with a lifetime warranty. We got your back!
10. Questions/Concerns? See above, we are here for ya.
11. In the band mix, yes it cuts, and it sounds huge. AmpAddict... he can vouch for this one. As well as his sound guy. I have some clips of them in a band mix. They cut.
12. Single control for dual master volumes. You set the proportion between the two and then control both from one knob. It raises/lowers the masters, IN PROPORTION! Great idea! Nice on stage, can be a pain at home...
The Bad:
1. 88s, yes the dark side of the 88's... If you are not a technical, precise guitar player, it will let you know your faults. It doesn't cover up as much and it is HONEST.
2. Softer Tolex. This matters to some. The tolex is gorgeous on these amps. however it is softer and more sensitive. It is more like a leather type. Pleather with a texture
but a lot nicer than tolex... also known as vinyl.3. The damn plexiglass frontpanel. If you aren't careful taking the amp out of the chassis, if you put the knobs too far on, or if you just so happen to have it shipped to you and those dirty damn brown gorillas drop it, it can crack. For all other purposes, its fine. Just keep this in mind, it WILL piss you off when you do it.
4. Internal bias, and have to move a daughterboard. This isn't bad but it can be scary for some poking around in their 3600 dollar amp. Some just don't like taking boards out of their amp, dont blame em. I am here to talk you thru it as is peter, and other members here who have done the same.
5. Expensive....
________________________________________________________
M60 vs M90
1) Tubes, EL34's vs 88's
34's - Stronger sweeter mids (more cut), Mellower lows ( looser less present bottom end), not as bright top end, easier to play, covers more mistakes, has more give to the amp. Also, better for people who play with the volume knob, less compression, and more dynamics.
88's - boomier bottom, brighter top, faster response/attack, more compression, more modern tone.
2) Special design transformer and preamp section to make the 90 a bit more aggressive/modern along with the 88's
3) 90 has a heat fan to dissipate heat from the hot ass huge 88's. No there are no heat problems, and the fan is there as precautionary. No it does not affect tone or create noise.
If I am forgetting anything please add to it! If you are considering one new or used, please take the time and listen to the clips. They are a great amp to have, and the people who own them are also glad to speak anytime regarding tube changes, settings, whatever....
Also note I found them to match up best to V30 cabs, I particularly like front loads, like the elmwood cabs, but any front loaded cab should suffice. V30s are the key ingredient however.
Thanks and good luck in your decisions, as I said, New or Used, from dealer or a member classified ad, we are here to talk, and discuss to ensure and amp is a right or wrong fit. I hope this post helps you.
Good luck!
Josh
sled
New member
[deleted]: totally misplaced post.
ejecta
Active member
joshsage":2c8wgez8 said:
My biggest gripe! Too damn expensive.
R
rjmmusic
New member
Wow, great summary, Josh. I agree with most of it. 
I'm going on my 4th year of Elmwood ownership, so I definitely know and love 'em. I'd have to agree that the 60 is a little better at low volume than the 90. The 90 is still better than most high-wattage amps at low volume, but I find that the "wow! holy shit!" tones really start happening once you can get the master at 9-10 o'clock.
At least with my cabs and overall setup, I found the 90 to be a little harsh on the treble end. I put different KT88s in there, and problem solved! (Thanks to Steve Snider for the suggestion). That's the only change I needed. The amp just rocks now.
They really are well made and well thought out amps for sure. Every feature of that amp is 100% usable and toneful. (I hate amps that have 3 or 4 channels but only one that sounds good. )
I'm going on my 4th year of Elmwood ownership, so I definitely know and love 'em. I'd have to agree that the 60 is a little better at low volume than the 90. The 90 is still better than most high-wattage amps at low volume, but I find that the "wow! holy shit!" tones really start happening once you can get the master at 9-10 o'clock.
At least with my cabs and overall setup, I found the 90 to be a little harsh on the treble end. I put different KT88s in there, and problem solved! (Thanks to Steve Snider for the suggestion). That's the only change I needed. The amp just rocks now.
They really are well made and well thought out amps for sure. Every feature of that amp is 100% usable and toneful. (I hate amps that have 3 or 4 channels but only one that sounds good.
)
J
joshsage
Member
I think his tubes he recommended were the gold lion RI's which you can get from doug for like 150 bux? Correct me if I am wrong...
Josh
Josh
R
rjmmusic
New member
joshsage":lno5zd5u said:
That's correct. Yeah, they're expensive but worth it IMHO. (Much the like amp itself!) As I think I've mentioned somewhere else on this board, I have had very similar results with the Tung-Sol 6550 RI and they're half the price.
H
Hard&Heavy
New member
Well put Josh...I am going to get a set of gold lions very soon.
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
AmpliFIRE":3ld7chht said:
Right here..the actual legendary "barely on..." amp...
Got it from Jason who got it from Todd D.
Sweet fricken amp.
It's no longer here (like everything else but the Aiken
)
Digital Jams
New member
* velcro-fly *":1bpz15ff said:AmpliFIRE":1bpz15ff said:
Right here..the actual legendary "barely on..." amp...
Got it from Jason who got it from Todd D.
Sweet fricken amp.
It's no longer here (like everything else but the Aiken
All the legends go through Oregon
J
joshsage
Member
* velcro-fly *":1qooewld said:AmpliFIRE":1qooewld said:
Right here..the actual legendary "barely on..." amp...
Got it from Jason who got it from Todd D.
Sweet fricken amp.
It's no longer here (like everything else but the Aiken
Yeah, the first version, before they had a real US dealer! Now they have the MK2 version with the pentode/triode... Love the birch