ENGL Norse and IIC+ dialed to sound similar?

[Deleted member 3520]

The Morse is a tonal masterpiece and feels just as great to play.

The IIC+ is a tonal masterpiece and feels just as great to play.

I started to feel like they were much closer than I would have ever guessed. I started trying to dial them in as similar as I could whilst keeping the tones I wanted. I realized that I must EQ all amps the same way because when I went back and forth, I didn’t have to touch a single knob. One has a little more bass dialed in, and there are some other details that are different, but much closer than I expected. One has extra versatility and the other has extra harmonic content and complexity. Here they are!

https://youtu.be/E_xZW-vANVc

 

[stratjacket]

Making me miss the Morse....going to guess the Morse was the first one?

 

[Deleted member 3520]

Making me miss the Morse....going to guess the Morse was the first one?

The Morse is incredible. I had it with my SLO and now my IIC+, and it does such an amazing job and doing all the things I love! Versatility exceeds anything else I’ve ever owned by far. Before I say which is which, what about 1 gives the Morse code?

 

[Exo-metal]

Which C+ and specs, bc they are all different.

 

[Racerxrated]

Which C+ and specs, bc they are all different.

He's got a DRG.

 

[stratjacket]

Making me miss the Morse....going to guess the Morse was the first one?

The Morse is incredible. I had it with my SLO and now my IIC+, and it does such an amazing job and doing all the things I love! Versatility exceeds anything else I’ve ever owned by far. Before I say which is which, what about 1 gives the Morse code?

They both sound good and were pretty close. It felt like the first one you played more solo's and the tone on that reminded me of the Morse, very burning mids. Where the 2nd one was a little lower EQ'd perhaps and more chuggy sounding. But that may be the way they were EQ'd too.

 

[Deleted member 3520]

Which C+ and specs, bc they are all different.

Yep, DRG 105. Quad winged c 6l6 at the moment.

 

[Exo-metal]

If it had the ++ mod it would smoke that engl.

 

[Deleted member 3520]

If it had the ++ mod it would smoke that engl.

Isn’t the ++ mod just gain?

As is, the ENGL has waaay more gain. The IIC+ here is maxed out gain. The ENGL is about 3/4 and not even in high gain mode. The Mark is a little more lively in response.

 

[Exo-metal]

The ++ is just 20db boost, no pedal needed...that engl is no contender for the title.

 

[Deleted member 3520]

The ++ is just 20db boost, no pedal needed...that engl has no chance

What does it do for the amp outside of gain? I’m not disputing this at all, There are very few amps in the world that can sit beside a IIC+ and hang with it.

This is what made this comparison so surprising, how close the Morse can get in a room with it. It also has far more versatile and capabilities. BUT for harmonic sustain and dynamics in a mix, the IIC+ works perfect for my hands.

But so does the Morse...
And the Mesa...

 

[Exo-metal]

People say the C+ are all different levels of awesomeness, congrats?

I know most talk HRG, DRG ect but my 60w is unreal even in class A@15w it plain destroys.

 

[Deleted member 3520]

People say the C+ are all different levels of awesomeness, congrats?

I know most talk HRG, DRG ect but my 60w is unreal even in class A@15w it plain destroys.

Dude, I’m with you. I have a DRG right now, but about 10 years ago I had a 60w. Wish I would have never sold it. I think the beauty in these amps is that it isn’t a matter of better/worse. They are all top notch fire amps, there are just variances that suit certain preferences. People talk about the DRG, but then guys like Petrucci prefer the 60.

 

[Exo-metal]

Mine is a original SG 60w and it plain blows doors from the second I hit the standby switch I know it is next level shit. Nothing like it...and recently been running my fx through it and I can't tell you how fun it is. Just a few more touches on my rack/rig and I'll be good.

 

[Beyond Black]

They both sound stellar. I’m gonna say the Engl was first.

 

[Speeddemon]

The ++ is just 20db boost, no pedal needed...that engl is no contender for the title.

Contender for what? More gain? Because apparently the Morse already has the DRG beat in that department, according to TS. And I can tell you fo sho that most Engls don't need a pedal. Tight to begin with.

You clearly seem to have a bias (against Engl) in a topic where our TS burlybagg went out his way to show they're quite similar.
In my book, when two things are/can behave quite similar, one cannot 'slay' the other.
One may be better in certain aspects, sure, but the whole 'this one is so much worse than that one, it's not even funny' doesn't apply here.

Oh well, YMMV.

FWIW, I think #1 is the Engl too in this clip. Has that slightly thicker, compressed low-mid thing going on, paired with smoother highs. If I go by how my former Mark IV and Mark V:25 behave(d) compared to my Invader (on which the Morse is based), the Mesa's can have more hair and aggression on the highs mostly, but will be a tad leaner in the low-end.

 

[Racerxrated]

The compression in any Engl is very different than the type experienced with any Mark..and the feel is also very different. Maybe they record similarly but playing one vs the other, it should be fairly obvious.
Not knocking the Morse, I played one long ago but my memory of it doesn’t remind me of really anything about a C+.

Remember, when recording you can make many amps all sound very similar.

 

[Racerxrated]

People say the C+ are all different levels of awesomeness, congrats?

I know most talk HRG, DRG ect but my 60w is unreal even in class A@15w it plain destroys.

Dude, I’m with you. I have a DRG right now, but about 10 years ago I had a 60w. Wish I would have never sold it. I think the beauty in these amps is that it isn’t a matter of better/worse. They are all top notch fire amps, there are just variances that suit certain preferences. People talk about the DRG, but then guys like Petrucci prefer the 60.

Petrucci favors the HRG I believe? At least that’s what the JP2C is based on. My very first C was a SRG combo, and just in C form was one of the most open, organic 3D amps I’ve ever played. On a pure tonal basis that one was the best sounding C+ I had out of 4. When you consider the ‘thump’ factor though, Coliseum for the win.

 

[Exo-metal]

Well stated, the feel and open organic nature is 3D like no other amp made except the Coliseum which dwarfs anything and everything by comparison period. Btw i could care nothing for what petrucci favors. He has his own tastes and I have mine. I always hear this guy this and that guy blah blah blah and it means nothing to me. What someone else does is never going to make me happy except me. Imo my tone smokes.

 

[Deleted member 3520]

The ++ is just 20db boost, no pedal needed...that engl is no contender for the title.

Contender for what? More gain? Because apparently the Morse already has the DRG beat in that department, according to TS. And I can tell you fo sho that most Engls don't need a pedal. Tight to begin with.

You clearly seem to have a bias (against Engl) in a topic where our TS burlybagg went out his way to show they're quite similar.
In my book, when two things are/can behave quite similar, one cannot 'slay' the other.
One may be better in certain aspects, sure, but the whole 'this one is so much worse than that one, it's not even funny' doesn't apply here.

Oh well, YMMV.

FWIW, I think #1 is the Engl too in this clip. Has that slightly thicker, compressed low-mid thing going on, paired with smoother highs. If I go by how my former Mark IV and Mark V:25 behave(d) compared to my Invader (on which the Morse is based), the Mesa's can have more hair and aggression on the highs mostly, but will be a tad leaner in the low-end.

Everyone is correct at this point, the ENGL is the first one. I had a little more bass dialed in and didn’t realize until afterwards. They are incredibly amazing amps. The Morse has the mid matrix and gives you 4 mid frequency knobs...but if you hit the tone button up top, they respond differently. The Morse has a ton of mids, but to keep up with the Boogie mids I have them cranked, whilst the Boogie mids are at 3.5 with the slider up just a tad. Mark amps just have mids by the boatload.
The biggest difference is in the presence. The Morse works like the SLO in The presence where it literally becomes present in the upper midrange and does not add fizz or sizzle. The Boogie presence are always bright. The Morse presence is set to 7/10, the Boogies is at zero.
The treble is very different too. In the Boogies, treble really contributes to the gain and it sets up the response (or lack thereof) of how the rest of the EQ works. In this video the Mark was on treble 10. Was an accident, I usually keep it on about 7-8. The Morse? 3/10.

The Morse has far more available gain than the IIC+, not even close. The IIC+ is also more open of an amp. If I was to put a compressor pedal in front of the Mark they get insanely close. The Boogie sits a little better in a mix to me, but the ENGL does more things on the fly, and does them all well.

I very slightly prefer the IIC+ feel, but they both feel amazing. The Morse is cleaner even under higher gain, the IIC+ is a little more wild and harmonic.

In my own personal opinion I am unsure which I prefer, all things considered. Morse edges it for versatility, but the IIC+ edges it for dynamic response.