Engl Questions????

[VESmedic]

Hey guys. Just wanted to start a chat here about Engls.

I have owned a few in the last 6 years or so. I've owned the Powerball, and the savage 120, and have extensive time with the Blackmore (my favorite probably). I have a love hate relationship with them. Some of the recorded tones of Engls are some of my favorite guitar tones on record. But live, or in a band setting, I have been EXTREMELY disappointed, and haven't even considered Engl since.

The biggest reason being, they seem to lack the "power" or "girth" I guess you could say of other amps. Ex: 5150s, mesa rectos, splawn, Fryette, Diezel Herbert, etc. All of these amps have huge girth and just tons of power behind them, that all of the Engls in my opinion, seem to lack. That really is the best way I can describe it. I've read before that alot of Engls have much smaller transformers than alot of these amps, is there any truth to this, or could this be the reason why I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing? Does anyone else have this opinion? Sure, the Engls are loud, but there is just something msising. Some kind of punch/power/girth, that when compared a 5150, in my opinion, it destroys the Engls.

I have never ran an Engl preamp however, with some kind of high powered, very good power amp, such as a VHT/Fryette, and I'm wondering, if that would solve the problems possibly of what I'm hearing. To me, if this problem is real, and not in my imagination, I imagine it stems from the poweramp, hence the reason why I'm curious about this.

I will say however, that the Blackmore definitely suffered the least from this, that was very apparent. The blackmore sounds fantastic, however, it seems its bass and punch in the mids gets lost when ran with a full band. In its defense though, it has been a few years since I've sat down with one so I could be way off. Anyways, any opinions are welcomed (etc, yes you are right, no you are bat shit crazy, its all good )

 

[Mailman1971]

My all time Favorite ENGL has been the Invader 150...
man it was so loud...CLEAR....Punchy...
but I only liked one channel on it.....couldnt justify keeping a $2500 amp for one channel.
But man it kicked ass for what it did.

 

[Mizati20]

PM Wizzard of Ozz... I believe he said the new Fireball has full sized transformers, and doesn't suffer from any of the issues you are talking about...

...it may not be the fireball, don't quote me on that, but I know he just got like 3 brand new Engls...

 

[glpg80]

Engl's are like those hot blondes that are dumb as a rock. They're great at first, do one thing and do it great, but over time you get tired of it real quick.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

I had the same problem when using Vintage 30's with my Blackmore. Sounded fantastic at low volume, but at gig volumes, its started sounding hollow and really thin. The highs were also killing me.

After some trial and error, I now use speakers with "broader" mids and also use a Maxon OD-808 as a "slight" boost to kick the mids even further. I stay on CH3 (Lo-Lead) and run the gain around 1 o'clock. Its a totally FAT tone through my 4x12 with Heritage 65's and Weber Legacy 65's (M magnets). Tone also stays intact as the Master goes way up. I love it

BTW, I had the Fireball 100 and prefer the Blackmore by a country mile. If its good enough for Joe Bonnamassa and the current incarnation of Thin Lizzy, its good enough for me !

 

[VESmedic]

PM Wizzard of Ozz... I believe he said the new Fireball has full sized transformers, and doesn't suffer from any of the issues you are talking about...

...it may not be the fireball, don't quote me on that, but I know he just got like 3 brand new Engls...

I have heard this somewhere as well, and from what it sounds like, the new fireball 100 may be close to being something I would be into. Also, the new retro 100, atleast judging from killertones video he did at NAMM, sounds ABSOLUTELY promising as well!

 

[Mailman1971]

Yup...owned the Fireball 100 as well...
and yes....would own another one of these amps IN A NEW YORK MINUTE!!
They are bad ass!!

 

[VESmedic]

For the record, I was using a front loaded diez 4x12 with v30s at the time with my powerball and savage.

 

[VESmedic]

PM Wizzard of Ozz... I believe he said the new Fireball has full sized transformers, and doesn't suffer from any of the issues you are talking about...

...it may not be the fireball, don't quote me on that, but I know he just got like 3 brand new Engls...

This is probably a good idea, as ozz has had a UL and knows how much I love it, and probably gets what I'm talking about.

 

[squank]

Engl's are like those hot blondes that are dumb as a rock. They're great at first, do one thing and do it great, but over time you get tired of it real quick.

I couldn't disagree more.

I have owned a LOT of amps, including a number of Engls, Diezels, Bogners, etc. I gigged an SE for about a year, but have settled on a Powerball II as my main head in my original band. I may get another SE down the road, but an EL34 version this time, to compliment the 6L6s in my PBII.

In my experience with all these amps, I can definitely attest that they are very cab specific. I have found the Engl amps don't necessarily sound as good with Engl cabs as with others. Right now, I'm playing my PBII through a Mills Acoustic Afterburner 4x12 loaded with V30, and it ROARS with huge, punchy tone that doesn't get muddy or flubby in the low end. You can scoop the mids or not, and the cab sounds great either way. But every cab won't allow you to do this.

IF YOU AREN'T WILLING TO SPEND SOME TIME PROPERLY MATCHING A CAB TO YOUR HIGH GAIN HEAD, ONLY LUCK WILL HELP YOU TO FIND THE TONE YOU WANT.

Lastly, forget convention when dialing in your EQ on modern high gain amps. This is the area where a lot of guitarists lose hope. Forget using 'classic' Bass/Mid/Treble settings. Try all kinds of combinations with the EQ to find what sounds good. And consider running an EQ pedal in the loop. You can get some real magic by doing this. It's an old secret, and it can do wonders for your tone.

 

[glpg80]

Engl's are like those hot blondes that are dumb as a rock. They're great at first, do one thing and do it great, but over time you get tired of it real quick.

I couldn't disagree more.

The biggest reason being, they seem to lack the "power" or "girth" I guess you could say of other amps. Ex: 5150s, mesa rectos, splawn, Fryette, Diezel Herbert, etc. All of these amps have huge girth and just tons of power behind them, that all of the Engls in my opinion, seem to lack.

I do not need specific cabinets for my 5150 or 94 Tremoverb. They have sounded great with any cabinet, but are speaker dependent and prefer V30's.

I agree with the OP and that is exactly my opinion on them as well. I have not needed to flip gear to find what i was looking for - these are the only amplifier heads i have ever purchased in my life and i did so playing, researching, and listening - not reading forums or testimonies. No EQ pedal is a magic box for everything. As a matter of fact i find that the more pedals and effects you have to add the more you take away from your core tone and do not allow the amp to breathe - the exception being front end boosts. What i love about either of amplifier is the ability to actually sound better at band volume than at bedroom volume, any cabinet, live or in the studio. They were made to be cranked and have no real weakness on their own.

Engl's are great at what they do but get old. It is not all up to the user to determine what is right or wrong from a product - all of that is determined by the engineer building it - whether it fits your perspective of "the subjective tone in your head" is totally up to you. Engl or not is subjective. Not the cabinet, the pedals, or anything else. That just helps you get closer or farther - once again all subjective.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

PM Wizzard of Ozz... I believe he said the new Fireball has full sized transformers, and doesn't suffer from any of the issues you are talking about...

...it may not be the fireball, don't quote me on that, but I know he just got like 3 brand new Engls...

You mean these guys:

PM Wizzard of Ozz... I believe he said the new Fireball has full sized transformers, and doesn't suffer from any of the issues you are talking about...

...it may not be the fireball, don't quote me on that, but I know he just got like 3 brand new Engls...

This is probably a good idea, as ozz has had a UL and knows how much I love it, and probably gets what I'm talking about.

You need to try out either a new Savage 120 (my pick of the 3) or the Special Edition. Both of these amps have the largest output transformers Engl uses. The Savage 120 now has the same, identical output transformer as the SE... and it sounds huge.

The Fireball 100 and PBII now also do have the normal 100W OTs, but the voicing may not be what you're looking for. If you want more of that "wall of sound" feel like a Recto or something along those lines... the FB100 & PBII may not fit the bill as they have a bit more slice-n-dice cut to the tone. More high-mid voiced also. Of these two, the FB100 would be more to your liking... as it is voiced darker, smoother, and fuller than most Engls.

The UL has a really tight focused sound, which is similar to the Engl voicing, and both are voiced on the brighter side as modern, high-gain amps go... but the UL has that drier/less saturated gain structure... it works great for solos, but it's not the same feel as say a Recto or similar when playing rhythm. It's not as big, full, and chunky sounding.

I think you'd like the new Savage 120 best, but the SE EL34 might also scratch your itch. I've been on a tear lately and have gone thru a bunch of amps recently... the Savage 120 has been somewhat of a stand-out though. The new OT, and I'm thinking some other internal tweaks, give me the sound I'm after, moreso than any of the other Engls, w/o having to use an EQ, boost, etc.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Engl's are like those hot blondes that are dumb as a rock. They're great at first, do one thing and do it great, but over time you get tired of it real quick.

I like dumb hot blondes... actually I prefer them that way. It's a win, win for me.

 

[VESmedic]

Thanks ozz....When did Engl start putting in these bigger transformers in the savage 120 that are the same as the SE? The EL34 SE does sound like something I might be interested in for sure, judging by some of the tones I've heard...my rig isn't going anywhere, but I am always open to new stuff...I am just at that point now that I hear stuff and I'm like "eh....sounds good I guess" but nothing that makes me want to sell my rig...the UL and 5150 in stereo is perfect for me, my 2 favorite amps really. Engls are just some of those amps that I "want" to love you know?

 

[glpg80]

Engl's are like those hot blondes that are dumb as a rock. They're great at first, do one thing and do it great, but over time you get tired of it real quick.

I like dumb hot blondes... actually I prefer them that way. It's a win, win for me.

 

[Robotechnology]

If you like the Blackmore, you'd like the SE. I've had a SE which I regret selling and had a Savage 120 before it and now a Blackmore. You can dial in a Blackmore's tone and about a dozen others with an SE and it definitely has the girth you're looking for during live use.

 

[racerevlon]

Have you tried a Steve Morse model? Also, I'm thinking that the lack of girth you're referring to may be the result of too much compression or saturation. Try bringing down the gain a bit and see what happens.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Thanks ozz....When did Engl start putting in these bigger transformers in the savage 120 that are the same as the SE? The EL34 SE does sound like something I might be interested in for sure, judging by some of the tones I've heard...my rig isn't going anywhere, but I am always open to new stuff...I am just at that point now that I hear stuff and I'm like "eh....sounds good I guess" but nothing that makes me want to sell my rig...the UL and 5150 in stereo is perfect for me, my 2 favorite amps really. Engls are just some of those amps that I "want" to love you know?

I know all the 2012 models have them... and some of the late 2011 models as well. If you get an Savage 120, it's easy to spot the newer OT as it's way bigger, and doesn't have the wired coming out the side of the OT into the top of the chassis. You can spot the build date +/- on the SEs as the reverb pan has an assembly date which should be within a few months of the amp's build date. The SE is super-loud and super thick. It will keep up with your UL easily. It might actually be louder than the UL, up until 12:00 on the volume... then the 4 KT88s on the UL kicks-in the volume overload.

Yeah... I hear ya. I had near the same set-up with a PB, Savage 120, and a SE EL34 about 3 years ago... then went on a Mesa bender for awhile when the MKV came out. Engls do have that specific voicing that works great for power/death metal. Thick, but cutting. Lots of high-mids too.

I love the UL and 5150... both of those amp cut like knives... and have plenty high-end presence on tap as well. More builders have to stop building these dark, super-compressed, bass heavy amps. A little bit of high-end and power amp presence (more negative feedback) really helps shape your tone.

 

[EnGl]

Guuuys ... ENGL are really total shit as you describe ?

I want to buy a Fireball 100 but now ... I really don't know ...

 

[VESmedic]

Guuuys ... ENGL are really total shit as you describe ?

I want to buy a Fireball 100 but now ... I really don't know ...

Um, I don't really think thats what people are saying.....