Fish preamp VS ALL (bogner)

[sonic]

so, as the tittle says, i wanna know. Where the fish stands in between all the other bogners? what is it capable of? can it out-gain all others? will it perform as good as an XTC or an ubber? and if yes or no, with what power amp? (i am not asking for the cleans as i know it is amazing but feel free to comment those as well)

please i really need your good answers. THNX
constantine

 

[sonic]

come on guys give me your light here.
money are hard to come by these days and in greece that i live there is no way for me to experience these amps.
thnx in advance

 

[bognerman]

come on guys give me your light here.
money are hard to come by these days and in greece that i live there is no way for me to experience these amps.
thnx in advance

I plugged the Fish into the power section of my 100B. It has plenty of gain!
It's a bit "tighter" sounding (as most preamps are I think due to the separate
power section.) It has a sweet top end and is very rich. It does'nt have as
much low end as the head, but maybe has a bit more upper-low-end.

Honestly, I didn't find it that much different than the head.

I also plugged it into the power section of an Orange Rockerverb 50. It
sounded better than the Orange. It did take on the general frequencies
of head though, so power amps will make a huge difference. I'm still
in limbo as to which power amp to match to it myself.

I have tried other preamps into the 100b and were not impressed at all.
(A Hafler Tripple Giant, and a Langner DCP)

 

[se7en]

That's interesting you didn't find the Fish that different from the 100b. I know the 100b was based off the Fish, so I guess that isn't a big surprise. I assume you are referring to the Brown channel, or possibly Brown and Strato?

 

[ericsabbath]

the red channel of the xtc is based off the brown channel, while the blue channel is close to the strato channel, but they're still different

but like bognerman said, a preamp will never sound the same as a head
I remember John Suhr commenting something about the head preamp sharing the power supply with the power amp, so the oscillations do make difference in tone, and that he couldn't make his CAA preamps sound like the OD100, even plugged straight into an OD100 power amp

the high gain amp shootout by James Lugo shows some fair comparisons between the 20th annie Ecstasy, 20th annie Shiva, Fish, Uberschall Twin Jet and Alchemist

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music

 

[sonic]

i have a bit of a different experience. I own a mesa road king version 2. For those that are not familiar with, we are taking about an amp that has the most sound possibillities and combinations out there , due to its very complex power amp section. Those that are not familiar with, check out at the mesa boogie site cause it is interesting to know. I also own a rectifier recording preamp, and a brunetti centuone preamp. All the times that i have plugged in any of the 2 preamps onto the power amp section of the roadking, the results where very dissapointing. As i remember the sound was thinner than it should be, and the power amp section was to oppressive to the sounds of my preamps, meaning that i would hear something like 90% power amps and 10 preamp, with an unnaturall way. I was very dissapointed as i boutght this amp for this use. In order to have huge combination with any preamp. I have to say that in order to be sure i have to try again, and as a matter of fact i will do this the following days and post the clips here, so that we can all see the difference and comment.
Please to anyone that reads this, answer to me as literrally as possible about the fish preamp.
Also does anyone know, if i can cut my amp in 2? if there is is the possibiliity to cut my mesa head and separate it into a power amp and a preamp? even in huge cost?
thnx alot. i await for ur answers
constantine

 

[sonic]

the red channel of the xtc is based off the brown channel, while the blue channel is close to the strato channel, but they're still different

but like bognerman said, a preamp will never sound the same as a head
I remember John Suhr commenting something about the head preamp sharing the power supply with the power amp, so the oscillations do make difference in tone, and that he couldn't make his CAA preamps sound like the OD100, even plugged straight into an OD100 power amp

the high gain amp shootout by James Lugo shows some fair comparisons between the 20th annie Ecstasy, 20th annie Shiva, Fish, Uberschall Twin Jet and Alchemist

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music

I cant understand if u mean that a preamp is generally better or worse. I would expect a head to be less capable than a preamp and a power amp together, thus the huge price difference. Preamp + power amp is almost 2ice as expensive than a head.

 

[guitarslinger]

FWIW, no preamp sounds good through the fx return of any mesa recto.

The Fish is interesting. I really haven't heard anything like it.

It's "dark", but it has "cut". It's smooth, but it is still alive and open.



Bottom line: It's kind of Marshally, but smooth as silk, and very clear.

I'm not sure how else to put it. After LOTS of getting to know the Fish, it's pretty much my favorite preamp. It's not a modern metal preamp though. Think of it as a hot-rodded Marshall that God would play.

Fish + TC 2290 + VHT 2150 = the perfect rig, IMO.

 

[sonic]

ok, so can i hear now, why i cant have a good sound out of the roadking using it as a power amp? what is the problem there?
it is not for that use? should it be? is there any way that a professional engeneer can make it work like this? meaning that i would love to use such a power amp with any preamp? can it be done?
can i seperate it as i asked in the previous post?

What i like in the bogner sound, is that it has a certain fuzzy gain with depth, that i find it very interesting a pleasant to hear.
I find the use of the fuzzy sounds in my music beautifull. Is the fish li'ke this? I am familiar with the bogner sound as feel. I have never experianced it as an amp.
Can u understand what i mean that i know how the ''bogner'' sound feels? Is the fish like that?

 

[bognerman]

ok, so can i hear now, why i cant have a good sound out of the roadking using it as a power amp? what is the problem there?
it is not for that use? should it be? is there any way that a professional engeneer can make it work like this? meaning that i would love to use such a power amp with any preamp? can it be done?
can i seperate it as i asked in the previous post?

What i like in the bogner sound, is that it has a certain fuzzy gain with depth, that i find it very interesting a pleasant to hear.
I find the use of the fuzzy sounds in my music beautifull. Is the fish li'ke this? I am familiar with the bogner sound as feel. I have never experianced it as an amp.
Can u understand what i mean that i know how the ''bogner'' sound feels? Is the fish like that?

I honestly think the road king is going to still sound "pretty much" like the roadking, even with a Fish
or other preamp driving it.

Ie, my Orange head sounded pretty much like the orange head (but better) with the Fish.
You're still going to get a lot of power amp coloration and overall tone.

 

[guitarslinger]

1. Is it a series or parallel loop?

2. Yes, a good amp tech could make the 'FX return' better for running a preamp.

3. I have a Blue Angel with a parallel loop, and it just works terribly for plugging in an outboard preamp.

 

[sonic]

well the roadking series 2 at least has both series and parallel. Why would this power amp sound like this, and lets say the 90/90 mesa power amp would sound better?
I mean is it a mesa thing? Or the power amp of a head is not suitable for that use?

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Amp heads usually have power sections that are designed to compliment and give that amp it's tone and feel.

Power amps are more sterile to pass the tone of the pre-amp through unmolested.

 

[ericsabbath]

the red channel of the xtc is based off the brown channel, while the blue channel is close to the strato channel, but they're still different

but like bognerman said, a preamp will never sound the same as a head
I remember John Suhr commenting something about the head preamp sharing the power supply with the power amp, so the oscillations do make difference in tone, and that he couldn't make his CAA preamps sound like the OD100, even plugged straight into an OD100 power amp

the high gain amp shootout by James Lugo shows some fair comparisons between the 20th annie Ecstasy, 20th annie Shiva, Fish, Uberschall Twin Jet and Alchemist

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music

I cant understand if u mean that a preamp is generally better or worse. I would expect a head to be less capable than a preamp and a power amp together, thus the huge price difference. Preamp + power amp is almost 2ice as expensive than a head.

not better or worse, just different
you just can't get that extra mojo you get from a head in higher volumes, cause when you crank the power amp of a head, you get more sag from the preamp section too, due to the shared supply
BUT, with a separate preamp, you have the advantage of being able to use a high setting on channel volume with a low output volume setting and then crank the power amp
it's not the same as using a heavily pushed power input signal, but it's much easier to get good tones in lower volumes than a head

 

[sonic]

the red channel of the xtc is based off the brown channel, while the blue channel is close to the strato channel, but they're still different

but like bognerman said, a preamp will never sound the same as a head
I remember John Suhr commenting something about the head preamp sharing the power supply with the power amp, so the oscillations do make difference in tone, and that he couldn't make his CAA preamps sound like the OD100, even plugged straight into an OD100 power amp

the high gain amp shootout by James Lugo shows some fair comparisons between the 20th annie Ecstasy, 20th annie Shiva, Fish, Uberschall Twin Jet and Alchemist

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music

I cant understand if u mean that a preamp is generally better or worse. I would expect a head to be less capable than a preamp and a power amp together, thus the huge price difference. Preamp + power amp is almost 2ice as expensive than a head.

not better or worse, just different
you just can't get that extra mojo you get from a head in higher volumes, cause when you crank the power amp of a head, you get more sag from the preamp section too, due to the shared supply
BUT, with a separate preamp, you have the advantage of being able to use a high setting on channel volume with a low output volume setting and then crank the power amp
it's not the same as using a heavily pushed input signal, but it's much easier to get good tones in lower volumes than a head

so by having a preamp and a power amp you can achieve more clean sounds.... But still i can get the price difference...
My question remains about the road king and using its power amp alone as well about the fish. I NEED to hear more info from all of you.
thnx

 

[sonic]

so can we say here that with a good power amp ( i wouldnt know which thought) the fish can be the winner amongst the other bogner amps?

 

[MOAAH]

Amp heads usually have power sections that are designed to compliment and give that amp it's tone and feel.

Power amps are more sterile to pass the tone of the pre-amp through unmolested.

True, although some heads allow more sterile tone than others.