rokket2005
Member
I think I have a german ofr that I bought from carvin years ago, I dont think I ever used it even. If I can dig it up I'll sell it to you at a fair price.
Steinmetzify
Well-known member
Far as a body goes, I think it was Dstroud that was selling two KNE bodies that were routed for Floyds already, for like $60 apiece.
Aristocat
Well-known member
luxxtone":ojumgdl2 said:Sounds like you should for sure get a Floyd and locking nut. You don't need the locking tuners with a locking nut, it's not going to help anything…..unless you just like if for faster string changes? Anyway, you can save even more money by just getting a Trem Stop, instead of the Tremol-no. It's like only $10 or $15 and will make it dive only….but not complete hardtail mode like a Tremol-no can. And if you have a body with a vintage trem route, you'll need to obviously drill new holes for the floyd posts if you ever switched. Along with installing a locking nut on the neck, which can be a bit of a pain to do.
If you set up a floyd correctly, they stay in tune great….even most of the cheaper knockoffs are OK. Especially if you use a Trem stop, it will stay in tune really well. Keep the posts and everywhere the string touches lubed with Tri Flow…..that stuff is like magic. That's my free tech tip of the week!
Thanks for the tip man!
I've always been a plug and play kind of guy so the idea of a Floyd has left me apprehensive (due to quick string changes etc.).
I've always heard of the trem stopper but have never consider the pros and cons between that and the tremolo-no.
Aristocat
Well-known member
rokket2005":5a1e6n5l said:
Thanks for the offer.
I have to pay for my last year of college and a vacation so my super strat is on hold for the interim.
guitarmike
Well-known member
I never understood the people that say they can't get a floyd guitar to stay in tune. All 4 of my guitars were built between 1986-88 and all have floyds. I set them up the same with the same strings I never have tuning issues except when the strings are worn out. The set up is the key. Take your time and learn how to do it and it is a no brainer. When I play at church you can watch the other guitar players tuning throughout the service, I do not even if I really whack the bar hard (for God of course 
).
).
Aristocat
Well-known member
guitarmike":1n4rj84a said:I never understood the people that say they can't get a floyd guitar to stay in tune. All 4 of my guitars were built between 1986-88 and all have floyds. I set them up the same with the same strings I never have tuning issues except when the strings are worn out. The set up is the key. Take your time and learn how to do it and it is a no brainer. When I play at church you can watch the other guitar players tuning throughout the service, I do not even if I really whack the bar hard (for God of course
I've never sent a Floyd equipped guitar out of tune. My LP is a bitch and I think I need new Tuning Keys as is.
I just think Floyd's are awkward.
rcm78
New member
guitarmike":3jmdudv8 said:I never understood the people that say they can't get a floyd guitar to stay in tune. All 4 of my guitars were built between 1986-88 and all have floyds. I set them up the same with the same strings I never have tuning issues except when the strings are worn out. The set up is the key. Take your time and learn how to do it and it is a no brainer. When I play at church you can watch the other guitar players tuning throughout the service, I do not even if I really whack the bar hard (for God of course
I firmly believe that the early bridges were superior to what is being used today. Those '86-'88 Floyds you have are hard to come by.
rcm78
New member
I'm so over Floyd Rose bridges. I've had so many over the years and still have 4 guitars equipped with them. They are all blocked with Trem Stops for dive only operation. I've gravitated to my hard tail guitars more and more over the years.
I really feel you lose something tone wise with a floyd. The strings are disconnected from the body at the bridge and locking nut.
I just ordered a body, neck, and everything else needed to build a partscaster. I went with a body mounted wilkinson bridge, and will install Sperzel locking tuners. The tuning stability should be just fine!!!
BTW, The best Floyd I've ever used isnt even made by Floyd Rose. It's the Kahler Steeler. I have one on a '91 Washburn N4. Fantastic bridge!!!
I really feel you lose something tone wise with a floyd. The strings are disconnected from the body at the bridge and locking nut.
I just ordered a body, neck, and everything else needed to build a partscaster. I went with a body mounted wilkinson bridge, and will install Sperzel locking tuners. The tuning stability should be just fine!!!
BTW, The best Floyd I've ever used isnt even made by Floyd Rose. It's the Kahler Steeler. I have one on a '91 Washburn N4. Fantastic bridge!!!
IceMan
New member
How about going with something like a Wilkinson and locking tuners? If you're apprehensive about a Floyd and don't really go crazy with the whammy bar, a Wilk (or other 2-point trem) with good locking tuners will give you what you need without the extra hassle of the Floyd. I have a Carvin with a Wilk and Sperzel tuners and it stays in tune VERY well - and I can get pretty nuts with the bar as well. I can't do what I could with a Floyd, but for simplicity, it's a good compromise.
Also - the Floyd Specials are not bad trems at all. Some people hate them, but if they're properly setup they perform almost as good if not just as good as an Original Floyd. So if you want to start out on the cheap - it will work fine.
Also - the Floyd Specials are not bad trems at all. Some people hate them, but if they're properly setup they perform almost as good if not just as good as an Original Floyd. So if you want to start out on the cheap - it will work fine.
S
shgshg
Banned
New member
The essential problem that Mr Floyd Rose attempted to solve was "the string doing something it shouldn't". Originally the problem addressed was that of the string doing something it shouldn't at three places:
1) At tuning peg (string windings can slip around post, peg itself can move)
2) At nut (string can stick)
3) Between bridge saddle and block (string can slip, ball end can twist)
The locking nut solves problems 1 and 2; it removes the tuning peg from the equation entirely while making the nut a fixed point. And having the string clamped AT THE SADDLE rather than passing down into the block solves problem 3.
A properly set-up Floyd Rose bridge with a good locking nut will not allow the strings to slip. It just won't.
Now solving these problems doesn't mean the guitar won't go out of tune, because string movement isn't the only thing that can disrupt tuning. Bridge studs can move in the body holes, the neck joint on a bolt-on guitar can shift, changes in humidity and temperature can cause the guitar wood to expand or shrink, etc etc. These additional factors were what Rose's later addition of the "whale tale" with fine tuners was designed to address (according to legend at the suggestion of Edward Van Halen). Later tweaks were added by Rose and other manufacturers in order to eliminate rather than accommodate the "bridge-stud moving" problem - for example, by adding a metal sleeve into which the bridge studs are mounted rather than by screwing them straight into the wood. The Ibanez Edge even allows the locking of the bridge studs into the sleeve for extra solidity.
Of course a knife-edge bridge adds an entire new place where a thing can move that shouldn't: the knife edges themselves. The knife edges have to be hard tempered steel or they wear down and the bridge will acquire a new (and unwanted) natural position; and of course two straight knife edges can slide laterally against the studs, and even the slightest movement will change the scale length of the strings enough to put tuning out. For this reason curved knife edges (one or both) were soon added to Floyd Rose's bridges, and of course other manufacturers followed.
When you hear people complaining about cheap Floyd Rose copies going out of tune, it's usually because the manufacturer - while licensing Floyd Rose's design - has decided to cut costs and use cheap soft metal for the knife edges.
All this said, let's get to the point: if you want ultimate tuning stability I'd recommend a good firmly-fitted locking nut paired with an Original Floyd Rose or a good clone; my faves among these are the Gotoh FR clone (as used on the Music Man Van Halen model) and the original Ibanez Edge (as used on all the Ibanez shred machines in the late eighties and nineties). One thing to bear in mind is fingerboard radius; make sure that the locking nut and bridge radius are appropriate for the fingerboard of the guitar. From memory the OFR is radiused at 10", the Gotoh 15", and the Edge 17". If the guitar is a more traditional Strat-style axe with a rounded fingerboard I'd go for the OFR, while if it has a flat shreddy fingerboard I'd go for the Gotoh or Edge. This can be tweaked with saddle shims of course but that's just another fiddly little thing that you might not want to worry about.
The corners on the OFR saddles are quite sharp, so if you do a lot of palm muting or keep your hand on the bridge you might find that annoying. The more rounded saddles were one of the first things I noticed about the Edge, it felt much more comfortable under my hand when I first made a swap from OFR to Edge. Of course one gets used to just about anything; I have an OFR on one guitar and I no longer notice the pointy corner.
Rewind to the three problems Mr Rose was trying to solve. The addition of a locking nut adds one new problem: you can't change strings or radically change tunings without unclamping the nut. That can get annoying, as evidenced by the popularity of the EVH D-Tuna. So somebody came up with the compromise of locking the tuning peg while allowing the string to move through the nut. Hence "locking tuners". This is a compromise because even if the tuning peg is immobile the string can still get caught at the nut, which is why we have things like graphite nuts, roller nuts, nut lubrication, etc etc.
I'm not a vintage purist so I don't give a toss about six-screw bridges with rolled saddles and all the nostalgia. I love the reliability and dependability of a Floyd Rose style bridge and I like the feel of a thicker whammy bar. My two main guitars are set up with two different variations:
- A non-fine-tuner Floyd-Rose-style locking bridge paired with a roller nut and Schaller locking tuners.
- A fine-tuner Floyd-Rose-style locking bridge paired with a locking nut and it doesn't matter what tuners.
The tradeoffs are: the non-fine-tuner guitar with the roller nut does not stay in tune perfectly. OK for most things but if I go really whammy mental on it I need to retune afterwards. The fine-tuner guitar with the locking nut does not go out of tune no matter what I do to it, but if I want to change tunings or change strings I need an allen wrench handy to unlock the nut.
1) At tuning peg (string windings can slip around post, peg itself can move)
2) At nut (string can stick)
3) Between bridge saddle and block (string can slip, ball end can twist)
The locking nut solves problems 1 and 2; it removes the tuning peg from the equation entirely while making the nut a fixed point. And having the string clamped AT THE SADDLE rather than passing down into the block solves problem 3.
A properly set-up Floyd Rose bridge with a good locking nut will not allow the strings to slip. It just won't.
Now solving these problems doesn't mean the guitar won't go out of tune, because string movement isn't the only thing that can disrupt tuning. Bridge studs can move in the body holes, the neck joint on a bolt-on guitar can shift, changes in humidity and temperature can cause the guitar wood to expand or shrink, etc etc. These additional factors were what Rose's later addition of the "whale tale" with fine tuners was designed to address (according to legend at the suggestion of Edward Van Halen). Later tweaks were added by Rose and other manufacturers in order to eliminate rather than accommodate the "bridge-stud moving" problem - for example, by adding a metal sleeve into which the bridge studs are mounted rather than by screwing them straight into the wood. The Ibanez Edge even allows the locking of the bridge studs into the sleeve for extra solidity.
Of course a knife-edge bridge adds an entire new place where a thing can move that shouldn't: the knife edges themselves. The knife edges have to be hard tempered steel or they wear down and the bridge will acquire a new (and unwanted) natural position; and of course two straight knife edges can slide laterally against the studs, and even the slightest movement will change the scale length of the strings enough to put tuning out. For this reason curved knife edges (one or both) were soon added to Floyd Rose's bridges, and of course other manufacturers followed.
When you hear people complaining about cheap Floyd Rose copies going out of tune, it's usually because the manufacturer - while licensing Floyd Rose's design - has decided to cut costs and use cheap soft metal for the knife edges.
All this said, let's get to the point: if you want ultimate tuning stability I'd recommend a good firmly-fitted locking nut paired with an Original Floyd Rose or a good clone; my faves among these are the Gotoh FR clone (as used on the Music Man Van Halen model) and the original Ibanez Edge (as used on all the Ibanez shred machines in the late eighties and nineties). One thing to bear in mind is fingerboard radius; make sure that the locking nut and bridge radius are appropriate for the fingerboard of the guitar. From memory the OFR is radiused at 10", the Gotoh 15", and the Edge 17". If the guitar is a more traditional Strat-style axe with a rounded fingerboard I'd go for the OFR, while if it has a flat shreddy fingerboard I'd go for the Gotoh or Edge. This can be tweaked with saddle shims of course but that's just another fiddly little thing that you might not want to worry about.
The corners on the OFR saddles are quite sharp, so if you do a lot of palm muting or keep your hand on the bridge you might find that annoying. The more rounded saddles were one of the first things I noticed about the Edge, it felt much more comfortable under my hand when I first made a swap from OFR to Edge. Of course one gets used to just about anything; I have an OFR on one guitar and I no longer notice the pointy corner.
Rewind to the three problems Mr Rose was trying to solve. The addition of a locking nut adds one new problem: you can't change strings or radically change tunings without unclamping the nut. That can get annoying, as evidenced by the popularity of the EVH D-Tuna. So somebody came up with the compromise of locking the tuning peg while allowing the string to move through the nut. Hence "locking tuners". This is a compromise because even if the tuning peg is immobile the string can still get caught at the nut, which is why we have things like graphite nuts, roller nuts, nut lubrication, etc etc.
I'm not a vintage purist so I don't give a toss about six-screw bridges with rolled saddles and all the nostalgia. I love the reliability and dependability of a Floyd Rose style bridge and I like the feel of a thicker whammy bar. My two main guitars are set up with two different variations:
- A non-fine-tuner Floyd-Rose-style locking bridge paired with a roller nut and Schaller locking tuners.
- A fine-tuner Floyd-Rose-style locking bridge paired with a locking nut and it doesn't matter what tuners.
The tradeoffs are: the non-fine-tuner guitar with the roller nut does not stay in tune perfectly. OK for most things but if I go really whammy mental on it I need to retune afterwards. The fine-tuner guitar with the locking nut does not go out of tune no matter what I do to it, but if I want to change tunings or change strings I need an allen wrench handy to unlock the nut.
S
shgshg
Banned
New member
PS if you aren't sure what I mean by "non-fine-tuner Floyd-Rose style locking bridge" I mean something like this:
That's the "Fender Deluxe Locking Tremolo", with the modern narrow American Standard Strat string and post spacing.
Or this:
...which is the genuine Floyd Rose on the guitar right next to me. It has the wider Fender string spacing and Floyd Rose post spacing.
That's the "Fender Deluxe Locking Tremolo", with the modern narrow American Standard Strat string and post spacing.
Or this:
...which is the genuine Floyd Rose on the guitar right next to me. It has the wider Fender string spacing and Floyd Rose post spacing.
tlingen
Active member
Damn, could that knob get any closer to that pickup
S
shgshg
Banned
New member
Standard Strat volume knob position, just where I like it