For a fuller sound.....

[petejt]

Say you're main amp already has a punchy, focused, thick & tight sound with lots of midrange, but might be lacking a little bit of thud and fullness on the lower end....


Is it worth to run a second amp in stereo, that has the mids scooped out & presence dialed down so you won't really hear the notes coming from it, but the overall sound will 'fill out' and bloom around and thus make your sound fuller?

 

[zerohawk]

I wouldn't see how that could hurt at all as long as the frequenices match up nicely. I sort of pulled off what your theorzing, but I did it with two different cabs and a Peavey XXX head. I was running a Mesa 4x12 with a Marshall 4x12 and it sounded huge and punchy. The Mesa had the nice dark sounds with alot of bottom end while the Marshall had that nice sizzle and mid growl to it. What did you want to mix together?

 

[petejt]

I wouldn't see how that could hurt at all as long as the frequenices match up nicely. I sort of pulled off what your theorzing, but I did it with two different cabs and a Peavey XXX head. I was running a Mesa 4x12 with a Marshall 4x12 and it sounded huge and punchy. The Mesa had the nice dark sounds with alot of bottom end while the Marshall had that nice sizzle and mid growl to it. What did you want to mix together?

My MarkIV and my Fireball.


The MarkIV has a pair of Svetlana E.D. EL34s, a JJ 6L6 and a Mesa/Boogie STR 440 (rebranded Ruby 6L6). I run it through a customised front-loaded closed-back angled 4x12 cab, that has two EV 200 watters, a Black Shadow CL90 and a V30 speaker. It's a very gutsy, punchy, articulate aggressive sound. It might be smooth compared to other amps, but not as smooth as MarkIVs are said to be. Pretty crunchy and the bottom end is tough. The thing is, to get rid of the mud I have to dial out the 240Hz, but that also reduces the 'thud' so to speak.

You see, I'm pretty damn happy with the sound of the MarkIV as it is. I used to run the amp with full V30-loaded 4x12 and it sounded sweet, and tried all sorts of stuff. Ran it wet/dry, wet/dry/wet, used another poweramp to take the slaved signal, also used to run the Fireball in stereo with it. But at the end of the day I preferred the MarkIV on its own, which is why I've been wanting to sell the Fireball.

But I've started to renew some interest in it, and I thought instead if I ran the Fireball so all you really hear is a wall of sound with no real 'guts' in it, it might fill in some of the space that isn't getting projected by the MarkIV. Otherwise the MarkIV already is pretty damn full-sounding. I might just be being fussy.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

I would try a different cab or speakers which ever you can afford..
Mixing with an over sized cabinet might help you..

 

[ShaneV]

I'd try adding some H30s to the mix before I added another amp. In my experience those speakers really shine when used to add girth in combination with other speakers that have good midrange bite.

 

[petejt]

Well I'm trying to sell a heap of speakers at the moment. A quartet of G12M70s that I pulled out of the custom cab, and a quartet of G12Y75s from a Marshall cab that I butchered into becoming a Leslie speaker cab (which failed).

I need to sell them first before getting more speakers. I don't want to touch the custom cab as I'm very happy with its sound now.


I'm basically trying to find a use for my Fireball. Otherwise it will need to be sold. If it can add some wide fill for the MarkIV sound, than that'd be good.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Sell the fireball and add another cabinet..

 

[zerohawk]

Sounds to me like your pretty happy with the Mesa. Regardless of what speakers you put in, if you have another cab it is going to sound twice as full as it did with one. If you make the right choice in a cab, not only with it sound twice as full, but twice as good! p.s. how much are you looking to get for the Fireball shipped? I have me some gas for an ENGL!

 

[BOZZY]

I run 2 rigs the Cornford is set up normal and the graphic/poweramp rig is set up bass heavy.The poweramp rig sounds too thick on its own but mixed with the Cornford it sounds massive!!

 

[Say Ocean]

Do you notice the lack of fullness in the bass when you play with a band? A bassist will usually fill that out if that's all you're missing.


By the way, once you go stereo... it's so hard to go back

 

[ericsabbath]

buy a cobra
that's the only amp I've ever heard that can sound tight, bassy, middy, trebly, dark AND bright at same time

 

[petejt]

Do you notice the lack of fullness in the bass when you play with a band? A bassist will usually fill that out if that's all you're missing.


By the way, once you go stereo... it's so hard to go back

Yeah I think I just do miss the bass! It's been ages since I've played in a band, I work away from home a lot so it's hard to keep up so nowdays I mostly just jam around at home.

I actually have gone stereo, and although it was great I was quite able to go back. I would dial out the other amp so much that all I'd hear is just the MarkIV. The sound of my MarkIV is so great on its own! I guess I subconsciously don't like running other amps along with it? Oh well, I'll keep trying.

 

[petejt]

I run 2 rigs the Cornford is set up normal and the graphic/poweramp rig is set up bass heavy.The poweramp rig sounds too thick on its own but mixed with the Cornford it sounds massive!!

That looks good man.

I tried a similar thing with my setup just now. The MarkIV was set up as normal, running through the cab (described in my sig) and the Fireball was set very dark and bass heavy, through a 4x12 cab loaded with V30s. It worked fairly well but still tended to 'smear' the sound a bit too much, like whatever top end from the Fireball was clashing with the MarkIV. I guess it was the V30s?


What preamp goes into the poweramp? Is that poweramp just running an EQ'd version of a slaved out signal from the Cornford?

 

[petejt]

Sell the fireball and add another cabinet..

I've already got another cabinet, a 4x12 loaded with V30s. I used to love running the MarkIV into that cab but since the newer cab, it pales in comparison.
In fact I have three cabinets, but one of them is ruined when I butchered the grille with a hacksaw, trying to make room for a rotating Leslie .

The thing is though too, my custom cab is in 'stereo', 2x16 ohms. So it already takes up the two outputs from my MarkIV. Plus it's a (safe) mismatch so I don't want to change it more.

 

[petejt]

Sounds to me like your pretty happy with the Mesa. Regardless of what speakers you put in, if you have another cab it is going to sound twice as full as it did with one. If you make the right choice in a cab, not only with it sound twice as full, but twice as good! p.s. how much are you looking to get for the Fireball shipped? I have me some gas for an ENGL!

It would probably cost too much for me to ship the Fireball. Where I live they cost over $3,000 new, so it would be a big loss to sell it overseas where they barely cost half of that for new in the shops.

Anyway in just the last hour I worked out a potential deal with a friend of mine, he might want to buy my Fireball.
I hope you get a good deal man.


I might just try running the 2nd cab again, even though now I am more partial to the custom cab than the quartet of V30s. I do have a poweramp on hand, but it might need a mod...

 

[John Busbee]

Say you're main amp already has a punchy, focused, thick & tight sound with lots of midrange, but might be lacking a little bit of thud and fullness on the lower end....


Is it worth to run a second amp in stereo, that has the mids scooped out & presence dialed down so you won't really hear the notes coming from it, but the overall sound will 'fill out' and bloom around and thus make your sound fuller?

I run a Legacy and an Uber together and have ran a double amp set up for years...it really gives you a fuller sound that is very alive. I haven't heard one amp that can give the spread and dynamics of a multi amp set up. I use the RJM RG16 to control the amps (both on, one mute, channels, pedals) and I can get any sound I want. If I really gigged, I would drop the 412's.
Almost any record you hear has more than one amp (or tone from the same amp) going and blended in.

 

[petejt]

If the Fireball won't work the way I want, I wonder maybe on getting a preamp or modelling preamp/FX rack like a Digitech GSP1101. I do have a stereo poweramp that I can run into the V30 4x12 cab.

 

[BOZZY]

I run 2 rigs the Cornford is set up normal and the graphic/poweramp rig is set up bass heavy.The poweramp rig sounds too thick on its own but mixed with the Cornford it sounds massive!!

That looks good man.

I tried a similar thing with my setup just now. The MarkIV was set up as normal, running through the cab (described in my sig) and the Fireball was set very dark and bass heavy, through a 4x12 cab loaded with V30s. It worked fairly well but still tended to 'smear' the sound a bit too much, like whatever top end from the Fireball was clashing with the MarkIV. I guess it was the V30s?


What preamp goes into the poweramp? Is that poweramp just running an EQ'd version of a slaved out signal from the Cornford?

Yeah its a slaved out signal from the Cornford..

 

[vchizzle]

I run 2 rigs the Cornford is set up normal and the graphic/poweramp rig is set up bass heavy.The poweramp rig sounds too thick on its own but mixed with the Cornford it sounds massive!!

That looks good man.

I tried a similar thing with my setup just now. The MarkIV was set up as normal, running through the cab (described in my sig) and the Fireball was set very dark and bass heavy, through a 4x12 cab loaded with V30s. It worked fairly well but still tended to 'smear' the sound a bit too much, like whatever top end from the Fireball was clashing with the MarkIV. I guess it was the V30s?


What preamp goes into the poweramp? Is that poweramp just running an EQ'd version of a slaved out signal from the Cornford?

Yeah its a slaved out signal from the Cornford..

This is a great way to do it if you want the same essential tone with different frequencies bumped or cut.

 

[JTyson]

I run 2 rigs the Cornford is set up normal and the graphic/poweramp rig is set up bass heavy.The poweramp rig sounds too thick on its own but mixed with the Cornford it sounds massive!!

That looks good man.

I tried a similar thing with my setup just now. The MarkIV was set up as normal, running through the cab (described in my sig) and the Fireball was set very dark and bass heavy, through a 4x12 cab loaded with V30s. It worked fairly well but still tended to 'smear' the sound a bit too much, like whatever top end from the Fireball was clashing with the MarkIV. I guess it was the V30s?


What preamp goes into the poweramp? Is that poweramp just running an EQ'd version of a slaved out signal from the Cornford?

Yeah its a slaved out signal from the Cornford..

Tonebra's on the Marshall cab?? You like ,em?