Fractal AM4, Suhr Reactive Load, SM57, and what the crowd thinks about your tone?

[GJgo]

Alright after years of holding out & talking shit I've picked up a Suhr Reactive Load IR as well as a Fractal AM4 to work on a silent stage setup for my bands. I've really been digging into "what sounds best in the PA & in the live mix" lately, because it can be quite a bit different than what sounds best at home / out of a guitar cab. For one, I'm finding that the PA is generally a lot brighter.

What I've done here is take these three similarly-dialed rigs and using a reamped rhythm track that I recorded sent them direct to the PA where I've used a condenser mic to capture the sound in the room, trying to dial & approximate what each of these might sound like in a live mix. The guitar only is blind so you can form an opinion with your ears before later watching the full mix versions and forming an opinion with your eyes! What sounds best to you?

Blind Test (guitar only)
Rig A: 0:43
Rig B: 3:38
Rig C: 6:33
Reveal (in the mix)
Rig A: 9:33
Rig B: 12:40
Rig C: 15:47



Since I've been using these at reherasal for a few weeks now, I'm finding it's WAY easier & faster to get a good, consistent sound out of the PA with the IR or AM4 vs. fucking around with mic placement (and ambient noise) on a cab. Another benefit is with monitoring- I always assumed it'd be better to have some stage sound from the 4x12 and some more from the wedge, but A/Bing I'm finding that I can hear much more clearly when all my sound is coming from one source rather than 2. With 2 sources things get phasy & swirly, and in a 5 piece I need all the monitoring clarity I can get..

 

[fusedbrain]

So, in the blind test, I thought A was horrible. To bright and fizzy, and no mids. B and C were much better, but I thought B was best by a hair.
After listening to the reveal, if you can get that tone on B from a Suhr, then that's a no- Brainer for me .
It sounded best solo, and in the mix.
Cool comparrison, and props to you for taking your live tone seriously enough to go to all this trouble. I think it will pay off for you big time!

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

In the blind test I thought the AM4 was the amp and the amp the AM4. The reactive load was my least favorite by a lot. So I actually preferred the AM4 over the real deal but by just a hair. I am impressed.

 

[fusedbrain]

Ok, so there you go....
We all hear things differently, but I guess we both agree that fukking around micing an amp is a waste of time.

 

[romanianreaper]

I liked the last one the least but definitely didnt know which was which!

 

[ChurchHill]

In the blind test, I liked A better than B by itself, but it was close, different, but close. I thought C was too bright and fizzy.

In the mix, I liked B better than A, but still didn't care for C. Still close between A and B, but in the mix, the differences were lost and they seemed very similar.

I was a little surprised which was A and which was B... not shocked at all what C was.

 

[Tone Monster]

Couldn’t guess the first two. The last one was the worst by far…

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

They all sound nasty! Great job man.

But to me, the b and c sounded meaner and more raw. I wouldnt throw any out of bed, though

 

[ChurchHill]

I'd be interested in hearing this with a different mic. I picked out the 57 instantly because I'm too used to hearing it. I've had much better luck with something else like an SM7 or EV RE20 or e906.

In any case, for the convenience and consistently, I'd have to pick either the Suhr or Fractal.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[GJgo]

Thanks guys. There's a lot of eye opening here for me as I've worked for years on how to get a decent close mic tone, and these IRs are so much easier and faster to dial in.

I'm also really intrigued how much more mix-ready the guitar tone is running it mic'd through the PA speaker than just a straight guitar cab close mic. Especially the AM4 seems much more mix-ready to me.

One thing I will add is that an amp through the Suhr direct to PA with no cab is BY FAR the best personal monitoring I've had in the live band.

@ChurchHill I prefer an E609 or 906, I just used the SM57 here because that what was baked into the Suhr IR.

Oh also, I've been playing the AM4 direct to my studio monitors and IMO it really doesn't sound very good. This suprised me since I thought it killed out of the PA. It's almost like it's voiced for live use!

 

[tallcoolone]

Oh also, I've been playing the AM4 direct to my studio monitors and IMO it really doesn't sound very good. This suprised me since I thought it killed out of the PA. It's almost like it's voiced for live use!

IME that’s the weakness of the tech—you really need to dial in your presets with the monitoring you use. What works live through powered wedges doesn’t translate to near field monitors at home

Great comparison btw—much appreciated

 

[fusedbrain]

One other consideration is the feel of the guitar/amp system when you're out live with the band.
I own a Suhr RL-IR, and it feels and responds almost EXACTLY the same as a real cab with all my amps.
Never played through the am4, but the feel / response thing would be a big deal for me.
YMMV

 

[ChurchHill]

I don't have an AM4, but I've had an AFX3 for over 5 years now. I am a DIE-HARD TUBE lover and I wouldn't ever have considered it if it didn't feel good. To my surprise, it usually feels pretty damn good and very similar to my real amps. Is it a little different, yeah, but not enough to cause problems. The AFX would have been long gone if it didn't have a good feel. In general, modelers have come a long way with that over the past 5-10 years, I think. Still no way it's going to replace anything. It's just another tool, but for live work, it definitely has advantages.

 

[gibsonash]

I prefer B

 

[Metalhex]

Ok, so there you go....
We all hear things differently, but I guess we both agree that fukking around micing an amp is a waste of time.

Is it waste of time if it saves you $700?

 

[tjnx]

The thing I noticed with tonex and the pa is that patches that sounded good in the daw isolated vs daw mixed vs playing at home through frfr vs playing through poweramp vs playing through frfr with a band were ALL different... so good luck!

A lot of the patches that sounded bad at home did the best with the band, go figure.

Its good to have options though, would be nice to be able to test a bunch in context as much as possible. PA speakers will sound different as well but hopefully you can get a good all-rounder.

*(for the sound guy to mess up )

 

[Eazy-ESP]

I actually guessed them all. Did NOT like the AM4 at all. Weird bass. I did like the Suhr but I could pick the mic as the best to be honest. I'd still use the Suhr. I just makes me sad because every test I've ever done myself, you can't beat a real amp/cab/mic. But I have a small house and young kids.

 

[nightlight]

C sounds the best to me overall. There's this girth and organic character to the sound in both the isolated track and the mix.

When the isolated track was playing, it seemed there was tonnes of low end on A, but the mids were excessively scooped. It did sound good in the mix though, so I'm wondering if a high pass filter would have helped the isolated tone.

A bit ambivalent about B, it sounds really good, but there's this "2D" quality to the sound, which I suppose is just a result of IRs being a static capture of a cabinet sound. But it also sounded good in the mix, and also when isolated.

All said and done, I would been happy to use any one of them live or in the studio. Loved the playing too, you've got nice tone in your fingers.

 

[GJgo]

One other consideration is the feel of the guitar/amp system when you're out live with the band.
I own a Suhr RL-IR, and it feels and responds almost EXACTLY the same as a real cab with all my amps.
Never played through the am4, but the feel / response thing would be a big deal for me.
YMMV

I will say the AM4 has a little bit of latency in the PA, but honestly, you get used to it after a minute or two. I wouldn’t make it into a big deal.

The AM4 feels are a little lacking into the PA compared to a high quality tube amp, but I’ve played plenty of not great tube amps that were the same or worse so I also wouldn’t make that a big deal.

Now, with that being said, running the AM4 into my DAW definitely creates a substantial latency and lack of feels. Using this as a practice method sucks all the fun out of things.

So all of that to say, as with other things, any one piece of gear isn’t necessarily good or bad. It’s the sum of the parts.

For what it’s worth, my little positive grid spark has better feels!

 

[GJgo]

Is it waste of time if it saves you $700?

There’s a lot more nuance in that point. If you’re broke and your option is a Cratewith a 57 well yeah that’s probably a decent argument. In my case, however if I could bring out a $700 AM4 versus bringing out the $12,000 C+ Coli stack, that kind of leads to a different decision.

I do gig all of my gear, but there are venues that I would definitely be more comfortable bringing a cheaper rig.

Also, as much time as I’ve wasted over the years fucking around with mic placement and often not being happy with the results I honestly do think either of these IR solutions would be worth 600-700 bucks all day long.