Fret Height and Playing / Bending Implications - Thoughts?

[Monkey Man]

I've got a Suhr Modern Satin, which I love, and a Modern Pro (Bengal Burst, and I've never been happy with the sound when compared to the Satin) that I'm "swapping" for a Luke II.

I'm going to put SS frets on the Luke 'cause that's how I roll these days, but don't know whether or not to copy the Satin's fret height or to simply copy the width and height of the stock Luke set. The Luke apparently has "low-profile" frets. Not sure what the Satin has, but they're not low-profile, I reckon.

I'm not experienced-enough to know which way to go. All I do know is that bending the unwound strings is something I'm still not able to do properly (hand issues, ongoing), and will therefore probably switch from 10s to 9s. Seems I'm always fighting the tension (too high for me), but also get the feeling that the fretboard kinda gets in the way in that it can feel "sticky" and also prevent me from getting a good grip on a string when I want to bend it a tone or more.

Way out of my depth here. I was thinking I should maybe go with the stock Luke width and height, out of respect for Steve, but then it wouldn't match the Suhr's spec. Does that even matter?

I'm super-keen to hear what you think and will be uber-grateful for anything you guys can throw my way. Thank you so much!

 

[sytharnia1560]

go for tall/narrow frets if you find the wood feels restricting under your fingers...or scallop it

 

[Monkey Man]

Thanks man. That's what I thought initially.

This is what I told the guy I'm getting the Luke from, but in response he raved about the ol' '70s Les Pauls' low-profile frets and how much easier they made those guitars to play.

This threw a spanner in the works for me, and I've been confused ever since. I mean, why would Lukather want them?

I figured I must be missing something - a lot of things, maybe, hence the invitation for feedback.

 

[SavageRiffer]

First of all, are you sure you want stainless steel frets? EVO frets are superior, in my opinion, and they don't cost too much more than stainless. EVO is the best of both worlds: durability, tone, feel. Stainless steel frets are brighter and slicker, and don't always mesh 100% with the other hardware on your guitar. All the hardware plays a part in the overall tone. A steel trem block, bent steel saddles, single-coil pickups, stainless steel frets, bright wood, etc., all might equate to an overall bright sound.

EVO frets are nearly as durable as stainless. They feel like nickel frets, and they have a warmer and rounder sound. Of course, we're all talking marginal or almost imperceptible differences, but over time your ears will catch on.

In any case, fret height depends on a number of things. The smaller your frets are, the more of your fingerboard you'll make contact with. If you tend to finger lightly, then you may rarely make contact with the fretboard with jumbo frets. Small frets give you more fretboard contact and thus a different kind of tone and sustain. How different that may be is unknown.

If you do a lot of bending, smaller frets may or may not help depending on how you bend. If you have big fingertips then your fingertips might rub on the fretboard more than someone with pointy fingertips, so it might make you work a bit more for bending and vibrato. I generally go with jumbo frets, but lately I find that 6115 are ideal. They're as tall, but slightly more narrow which is great for the higher frets. Wide & tall frets at the upper fretboard, especially on thicker strings, seems like you can't get as good sustain.

From the aspect of durability, jumbo frets are always most advantageous because you level, crown, and dress them repeatedly without them wearing down too much. If you work on a vintage strat with small frets, you have to be very careful not to take off too much material.

If you're a person with very precise picking mechanics and finger movement, then it seems like smaller frets are slightly more ideal. When you do fast picked runs, shredding basically, then it seems like there's a bit more articulation with smaller frets. This is my own experience and not something I've picked up from anyone, so take it for what it's worth.

The last thing is installation. Stainless steel frets are harder to install, harder to crown and polish, and take a toll on your tools. EVO frets are a tiny bit easier to work with. You might save money on installation because a lot of places charge more to install stainless steel frets.

I'm not a professional, but I have built around 23 guitars and modded a hundred, so what I'm telling you is from my own experience. I have a full setup of tools and a workbench at home, so I know a little about working luthiering. Some things will be negligible and other things may nag at you. The best bet is for you to sit around and play between two guitars with larger and smaller frets and see which one frets easy, but not too slick. See which one sustains and feels most comfortable. Pay attention to how the wood feels under your fingers and how the tone sounds on the upper frets. That's about as comprehensive answer as you'll get.

 

[Monkey Man]

Thank you so much 'Riffer!

Yes, I do want SS; that's what I use now, and it's about the slipperiness as well as the low wear. To the greatest extent possible, I have to live without luthiers as I'm cash-strapped and not able to get around; I walk for all my shopping, for example. That's where the low-wear factor of the SS frets comes in. I can live with the extra high-frequency sparkle; it doesn't worry me, especially as I anticipate carving much of that out during mixing.

Unfortunately I won't be able to compare the feel of various fret sizes, which is why I'm asking you guys for thoughts on the subject. My hope is that, armed with sufficient data, I'll be able to make a call I'll be happy-enough with.

Fingers normal size. Light player. Those 6115s you mentioned sound like they might be the ticket. If they're the same as or similar to the Suhr's ones then that'd be a bonus, I s'pose.

Lots to think about, mate; thank you!

 

[SavageRiffer]

Thank you so much 'Riffer!

Yes, I do want SS; that's what I use now, and it's about the slipperiness as well as the low wear. To the greatest extent possible, I have to live without luthiers as I'm cash-strapped and not able to get around; I walk for all my shopping, for example. That's where the low-wear factor of the SS frets comes in. I can live with the extra high-frequency sparkle; it doesn't worry me, especially as I anticipate carving much of that out during mixing.

Unfortunately I won't be able to compare the feel of various fret sizes, which is why I'm asking you guys for thoughts on the subject. My hope is that, armed with sufficient data, I'll be able to make a call I'll be happy-enough with.

Fingers normal size. Light player. Those 6115s you mentioned sound like they might be the ticket. If they're the same as or similar to the Suhr's ones then that'd be a bonus, I s'pose.

Lots to think about, mate; thank you!

Dude you'll spend probably $350 getting stainless steel frets installed - and who knows if it will be done right. They could chip your fingerboard or cause some other damage. I don't know if the average price included guitar setup because once the frets have been installed, leveled, crowned, polished, you'll have to re-setup your action and possibly neck tilt. Some companies are starting to sell incredible guitars with stainless steel frets for around the $1100-1300 mark. Varius Guitars makes the Ymir S-1 which comes with Jescar jumbo stainless steel frets and they're equal in quality to that of Suhr (I own both so I should know). Ibanez makes a few Premium models with stainless steel frets. They also make a Prestige model with SS frets and Bareknuckle pickups, but that's in the $1800-2000 range. In any case, it might be a better investment to sell your guitar and buy one with SS frets that come stock.

 

[Monkey Man]

The store that imports Suhr, MM and a bunch of others in bulk and sends them around the country is the one that'll be looking after me. I know the owner very-well and the full-time luthier they employ, even 'though I haven't used him before, has my provisional confidence.

They're 2 states away from me (a long way, especially in Australia), but this one (for guitar) and the sister store (everything else) have been my first call for everything since I got ripped off back in 2002 by a local store; they really do look after me.

I s'pose all I can ask is that the frets are levelled / dressed properly for generally-low-action setups, and I'll tweak it from there, anticipating that I'll have to go lower 'cause that's always been the way in the past with other luthiers.

If they damage the guitar, they'll have to fix it or get another in 'cause they're importing and selling it to me, so in that regard, I would seem to be covered. I mean, it's not like I'm purchasing it from someone else and then presenting a luthier with something I can't afford for him to stuff up; it'll be on their heads should things not go smoothly, no?

I appreciate the suggestions of other brands and models; no doubt there're some great guitars out there. The thing is 'though that I've wanted a Luke II since they first came out, and now that this opportunity's arisen to swap the Suhr Modern Pro for it (it'll include the frets and some store credit, I'm guessing - they'll be fair, as they always have been), and that IMHO the Luke will compliment the Satin very-well, I can finally see a "known-quantity" (sound-wise) end to the ol' saga of gettin' the non-Gibson-guitar-sound side of things sorted out. It's been an agonising journey of 25+ years, involving many false starts, botched custom jobs and rip offs, so even 'though neither the Satin nor the Luke will look like anything special, the versatility of sound between them should theoretically stand me in good stead for the many genres I intend to use them for.

If the Luke doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'll be no worse off than I am now 'cause I really, really don't like the Modern Pro's "scratchy", thin (except for the bridge-position PU of course), characterless sound. For me, the Satin kills it in every department except for the super-slick neck on the Pro, but hey, it's the sound that matters most right now; the looks, playability and even build quality have to take a back seat to practicality. There's so much else to sort out 'cause guitar is only one instrument (my favourite, of course) in a one-man band.

Thank you again for taking the time for me mate. Right now, it's all about figuring out what width and height frets to go with, hence the thread.