GCX Switcher / Signal Path Routing Help

[IndyWS6]

Greetings

I have a thread running "Help Me Build A Rack Rig..." but figured that I would get more responses on specific questions if I posted them separately and used that thread to update the overall progress. I apologize for the length of this post, but it will take some effort to clearly describe what I am trying to do. So, here goes...

I bought a GCX Audio Switcher and a Ground Control Pro that I intend to use to control my devices. So far, the rack has/will have:

• * GCX Audio Switcher
  * Rack Tuner (Model/Type TBD)
  * Mesa V-Twin Rack Pre Amp
  * DigiDesign Eleven Rack
  * Midiverb III Effect Processor
  * Peavey PV 231 EQ
  * Shelf with assorted pedals
  * Mesa Simul 2:90 Power Amp

What I would like to have is two MIDI-selectable scenarios (using the Ground Control Pro) that allow me to use the gear in stereo in the following ways. Note: I specifically mention "stereo" in the event that it affects the way the equipment must be connected to the GCX (number of ports per device, etc.

Scenario 1:
Mesa V-Twin --> (one or more) effect processors and/or pedals --> EQ --> Power Amp L/R --> Dual 2x12 Cabs

Scenario 2:
Eleven Rack --> Power Amp L/R --> Dual 2x12 Cabs

With Scenario 1, I would like to be able to do the following, using the Ground Control Pro

• * Bypass all devices & send the signal to the tuner
  * Change the channels used on the Mesa V-Twin Pre Amp
  * Switch the Midiverb III in/out of the signal path
  * Change the Midiverb III Patch Selection
  * Switch any/all of the pedals in/out of the signal path
  * Switch the EQ in/out of the signal path

With Scenario 2, I would like to be able to do the following, using the Ground Control Pro

• * Bypass all devices & send the signal to the tuner
  * Change the Eleven Rack Patch Selection
  * Switch individual Eleven Rack effects in/out of the patch

Note: Scenario 2 should be relatively easy since MIDI commands sent from the Ground Control Pro to the Eleven Rack will accomplish nearly all of this...

What's the best way to accomplish this? What's the best way to connect the output of two devices to the input of a single power amp? Some of this is straightforward, but I do have some questions:

• * The V-Twin has (6) tip-to-ground channel select switches. How do I accommodate that?
  * Is it possible to use the EQ thee way I have described? The fact that it is stereo and has (only) XLR outs has me confused. Would it need to be connected to two loops on the GCX? Do I use XLR-to-1/4" cables? Does that present a "line level vs. instrument level" or "balanced vs. unbalanced" issue?

I have a rough idea of how to do most of this, but having the EQ in the chain is throwing me. Am I making this too complicated? I'm sure a lot of you have already answered a lot of these questions, so I'm looking for your input to get started in the right direction. Again, apologies for the lengthy post - I'm hoping that the detail will help you help me zero-in on the answers.

Thanks in advance!

 

[IndyWS6]

Bump - anyone ?

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I'd have to go into it a little deeper to be 100% sure, but at a quick glance, it sounds like you'll need more than one GCX

The 6 functions on the V-Twin will take 6 loops to start.

If you want to switch individial effects in and out of the patches, you'll need to use the 4 Present w/ Instant Access setting on the Ground Control Pro.

Here is what I see so far:

-Guitar out to Loop 1
-Loop 1: Send to Tuner--->Patch Loop 1 out to Loop 2 In
-Loop 2: Send to V-Twin, Out to Eleven Rack (when the loop is engaged, signal goes to V Twin, when not, to Eleven Rack)
-Loop 3: Out of V-Twin to in, send to Midiverb, return from L of Midiverb, return from R of Midiverb to Loop 4, out to L of Poweramp
-Loop 4: (as mentioned), return from R of Midiverb, out to Right of poweramp..you'll need a y-cable from the out of the V-Twin going to the in of Loops 3 AND 4 if you want dry signal on both sides. When the loops are engaged, you will have the signal through the processor.

This is only the start.

Depending on whether the EQ is stereo or Mono, you'll want to put it after, or before the split for the Midiverb, respectively.

There are many ways to do this.

Pedals, depending on if you want the pre, or post processor, with have to go in loops either before or after.

You're going to run out of Loops...EASILY...you definitely need atleast another GCX IMO...might make the stereo path easier too.

Hope that helps a bit!

Eric

 

[Zachman]

Greetings

I have a thread running "Help Me Build A Rack Rig..." but figured that I would get more responses on specific questions if I posted them separately and used that thread to update the overall progress. I apologize for the length of this post, but it will take some effort to clearly describe what I am trying to do. So, here goes...

I bought a GCX Audio Switcher and a Ground Control Pro that I intend to use to control my devices. So far, the rack has/will have:

• * GCX Audio Switcher
  * Rack Tuner (Model/Type TBD)
  * Mesa V-Twin Rack Pre Amp
  * DigiDesign Eleven Rack
  * Midiverb III Effect Processor
  * Peavey PV 231 EQ
  * Shelf with assorted pedals
  * Mesa Simul 2:90 Power Amp

What I would like to have is two MIDI-selectable scenarios (using the Ground Control Pro) that allow me to use the gear in stereo in the following ways. Note: I specifically mention "stereo" in the event that it affects the way the equipment must be connected to the GCX (number of ports per device, etc.

Scenario 1:
Mesa V-Twin --> (one or more) effect processors and/or pedals --> EQ --> Power Amp L/R --> Dual 2x12 Cabs

Scenario 2:
Eleven Rack --> Power Amp L/R --> Dual 2x12 Cabs

With Scenario 1, I would like to be able to do the following, using the Ground Control Pro

• * Bypass all devices & send the signal to the tuner
  * Change the channels used on the Mesa V-Twin Pre Amp
  * Switch the Midiverb III in/out of the signal path
  * Change the Midiverb III Patch Selection
  * Switch any/all of the pedals in/out of the signal path
  * Switch the EQ in/out of the signal path

With Scenario 2, I would like to be able to do the following, using the Ground Control Pro

• * Bypass all devices & send the signal to the tuner
  * Change the Eleven Rack Patch Selection
  * Switch individual Eleven Rack effects in/out of the patch

Note: Scenario 2 should be relatively easy since MIDI commands sent from the Ground Control Pro to the Eleven Rack will accomplish nearly all of this...

What's the best way to accomplish this? What's the best way to connect the output of two devices to the input of a single power amp? Some of this is straightforward, but I do have some questions:

• * The V-Twin has (6) tip-to-ground channel select switches. How do I accommodate that?
  * Is it possible to use the EQ thee way I have described? The fact that it is stereo and has (only) XLR outs has me confused. Would it need to be connected to two loops on the GCX? Do I use XLR-to-1/4" cables? Does that present a "line level vs. instrument level" or "balanced vs. unbalanced" issue?

I have a rough idea of how to do most of this, but having the EQ in the chain is throwing me. Am I making this too complicated? I'm sure a lot of you have already answered a lot of these questions, so I'm looking for your input to get started in the right direction. Again, apologies for the lengthy post - I'm hoping that the detail will help you help me zero-in on the answers.

Thanks in advance!

Do yourself a favor and get a good stereo line mixer. This is just one possible configuration based mostly from scenario #1.

Guitar Input (Front)
Feed Thru (Rear Tuner Input
Guitar Output (Rear Loop #1 (Input)

Loop 1:
Input: Guitar Output (Rear)
Send: Ex. Compressor (Input)
Return: Compressor (Output)
Output: Loop #2 (Input)

Loop 2:
Input: Loop #1 (Output)
Send: Ex. OD (Input)
Return: OD (Output)
Output: Loop #3 (Input)

Loop 3:
Input: Loop #2 (Output)
Send: V-Twin (Input)
Return: V-Twin (Output)
Output: Loop #4 (Input)

Loop 4:
Input: Loop #3 (Output)
Send: 11 Rack (Input)
Return: 11 Rack (Outputs)
Output: Loop #5 (Input)

Loop 5:
Input: (Output)
Send: EQ (Input)
Return: EQ (Output)
Output: (Silent Tuning/Swells) Volume Pedal (Input)

Loop 6:
Input: Volume Pedal (Output)
Send: Misc Rack (Inputs) (Effects L/R Outputs to Line Mixer Ch1, Ch2. Mixer L/R Out to Power amp (L/R Inputs)
Return:
Output: Loop #7 (Input)

Loop 7:
Input: Loop #6 (Output)
Send: MIDI Verb III (Inputs) (Effects L/R Outputs to Line Mixer Ch3, Ch4. Mixer L/R Out to Power amp (L/R Inputs)
Return:
Output: Loop #8 (Input)

Loop 8:
Input: Loop #7 (Output)
Send: V-Twin Internal Select (Ch. Switch)
Return:

 

[IndyWS6]

Ibanez4LifeSZ / Zachman - Thanks for the responses... Much appreciated

As far as pedals, I'll only have a few. Right now, I'm thinking:

• * MXR - Phase 90
  * Tube Screamer
  * DOD Compressor / Sustainer

I only have the Tube Screamer and DOD right now, so the Phase 90 would be an addition. That's my "go to" pedal list at the moment, although it will likely evolve. The effects in the Eleven Rack and Midiverb III cover most of what I need, but I like the pedals listed for their specific functions (vs. similar ones inside the rack mount effects units). I also want "wah" and "volume" functions, but will likely connect expression pedals to the GC Pro to trigger those from within the Eleven Rack.

Thanks Again!

 

[Zachman]

Ibanez4LifeSZ / Zachman - Thanks for the responses... Much appreciated

As far as pedals, I'll only have a few. Right now, I'm thinking:

• * MXR - Phase 90
  * Tube Screamer
  * DOD Compressor / Sustainer

I only have the Tube Screamer and DOD right now, so the Phase 90 would be an addition. That's my "go to" pedal list at the moment, although it will likely evolve. The effects in the Eleven Rack and Midiverb III cover most of what I need, but I like the pedals listed for their specific functions (vs. similar ones inside the rack mount effects units). I also want "wah" and "volume" functions, but will likely connect expression pedals to the GC Pro to trigger those from within the Eleven Rack.

Thanks Again!

You won't have enough loops to go with 3 pedals and the rest of the features such as channel select w/ the V-Twin.

EDIT:

If you redo things a bit, and remove the "Misc Rack" device you could have one loop for a pedal, in it's place-- giving you a total of:

3 pedals (Routed in front of the V-twin, and/or the 11 Rack, and EQ)
V-Twin Select
V-Twin (Channel) Select
11 Rack EQ Select
EQ Select
MIDIVerb Select
Always active tuner
Silent Tuning via volume pedal (Added benefit is the tuner isn't in the audio signal path-- they tend to suck tone BADLY)

 

[IndyWS6]

Zachman -
Thanks again for the replies and the input. There aren't a lot of people up at this time of day

I'm wondering if there is a way to simplify the channel switching for the V-Twin? I haven't really played it much yet, but if I'm true to my typical form, I'll likely stick to two of the 6 options it provides - a "go to" crunch and a "go to" clean. With that setup, I could then layer pedal(s) or the Midiverb to effect the tone. If I accommodate only 2 "channels" for the V-Twin, what does that do for me in terms of loops? It has a footswitch, but I'd hate to use it and force myself into a tap dance routine. If I feel like I need all of the V-Twin options, I'll just invest in another GCX...

I'm also wondering how useful the rack mount EQ will really be. Considering the range of the tone stack on the V-Twin and the built-in EQ's in the Eleven Rack, do I really need the stand-alone EQ? If it wasn't in the mix, would that make things simpler? Another option would be to put an EQ pedal on the tray in its place - if that would be better.

Getting this all put together and working is going to be a bit of a head scratcher. But, there's fun in that, too

 

[Zachman]

Zachman -
Thanks again for the replies and the input. There aren't a lot of people up at this time of day

I'm wondering if there is a way to simplify the channel switching for the V-Twin? I haven't really played it much yet, but if I'm true to my typical form, I'll likely stick to two of the 6 options it provides - a "go to" crunch and a "go to" clean. With that setup, I could then layer pedal(s) or the Midiverb to effect the tone. If I accommodate only 2 "channels" for the V-Twin, what does that do for me in terms of loops? It has a footswitch, but I'd hate to use it and force myself into a tap dance routine. If I feel like I need all of the V-Twin options, I'll just invest in another GCX...

I'm also wondering how useful the rack mount EQ will really be. Considering the range of the tone stack on the V-Twin and the built-in EQ's in the Eleven Rack, do I really need the stand-alone EQ? If it wasn't in the mix, would that make things simpler? Another option would be to put an EQ pedal on the tray in its place - if that would be better.

Getting this all put together and working is going to be a bit of a head scratcher. But, there's fun in that, too

FWIW/FYI--With the configuration I did-- you'll also be able to use the V-Twin and the 11 Rack simultaneously as well as individually.

My suggestion for everyone designing/building a rig is to first figure out EXACTLY what you want in terms of-

Core amp tone/tones
Which effects pedals and rack processors you'll have
What kind of function controls you'll need (ex. Amp channel switching)

and then... move forward as though you WILL have more stuff.

ALWAYS plan for future Growth/Change.

Don't skimp on a Good Rack Case and Cables.

I like the 'idea' of a rack eq, for option's sake--but haven't really missed it, in my own rig-- in terms of necessity, but I have a 10 band eq on my pedal tray-- I just nearly NEVER use it.

 

[IndyWS6]

Zachman -
Thanks again for the replies and the input. There aren't a lot of people up at this time of day

I'm wondering if there is a way to simplify the channel switching for the V-Twin? I haven't really played it much yet, but if I'm true to my typical form, I'll likely stick to two of the 6 options it provides - a "go to" crunch and a "go to" clean. With that setup, I could then layer pedal(s) or the Midiverb to effect the tone. If I accommodate only 2 "channels" for the V-Twin, what does that do for me in terms of loops? It has a footswitch, but I'd hate to use it and force myself into a tap dance routine. If I feel like I need all of the V-Twin options, I'll just invest in another GCX...

I'm also wondering how useful the rack mount EQ will really be. Considering the range of the tone stack on the V-Twin and the built-in EQ's in the Eleven Rack, do I really need the stand-alone EQ? If it wasn't in the mix, would that make things simpler? Another option would be to put an EQ pedal on the tray in its place - if that would be better.

Getting this all put together and working is going to be a bit of a head scratcher. But, there's fun in that, too

FWIW/FYI--With the configuration I did-- you'll also be able to use the V-Twin and the 11 Rack simultaneously as well as individually.

My suggestion for everyone designing/building a rig is to first figure out EXACTLY what you want in terms of-

Core amp tone/tones
Which effects pedals and rack processors you'll have
What kind of function controls you'll need (ex. Amp channel switching)

and then... move forward as though you WILL have more stuff.

ALWAYS plan for future Growth/Change.

Don't skimp on a Good Rack Case and Cables.

I like the 'idea' of a rack eq, for option's sake--but haven't really missed it, in my own rig-- in terms of necessity, but I have a 10 band eq on my pedal tray-- I just nearly NEVER use it.

Thanks again - much appreciated!

That's definitely good advice. What threw me for a loop (or several ) was how the V-Twin implements channel switching. Although a worthy component, that pre amp wasn't my first choice and I hadn't expected needing so many loops to accommodate it. My power amp should be here on Saturday (Mesa/Boogie 2:90) and I plan on hooking things up to see how many of the V-Twin options are really useful to me.

I'm still waffling on the EQ...

Thanks again for the help - I'm sure I'll have more questions. I need to get everything un-boxed, grab a fistful of cables, a cold Coor's Light and start experimenting. Hopefully the long weekend will give me time to do that!