Gene Simmons: The fans destroyed the record industry.

[some dude]

How useless and uncreative do you have to be ,to take someone else song and record your vocals and lyrics over it .

Hendrix, BB King, Metallica, Led Zeppelin...

...Just to name a few that've done alright by recording their own renditions of other peoples music.

Not that I'm defending the cover... Just that its not exactly a new practice.


On topic...

It doesn't really matter whether downloading is stealing or not... like it or not its here to stay until someone devises some other system to replace it.

It's not like I grew up thinking I was stealing when I taped songs off the radio and gave copies to my friends.

 

[Ventura]

iTunes can offer artists direct sales to fans and buyers without the middle man. Plus for tech.
Internet can offer a plethora of musical samples - sometimes steering fans away from buying.
Record industry used to be, and continues to be, thieves of artists proceeds.
Gene is a douche, I just don't like the guy anymore. He's as much rock and roll as a used tampon is hot sex.

 

[chadprsman]

LOVE KISS
Not a big fan of gene(or paul)
Was glad to see many rig talkers call Kiss as one of their first "rock albums" purchased- ME TOO

-interesting point gene made about rappers living large and influencing youth, never thought about that
I feel old when I watch the MTV video awards and its all rap and pop-what no Foo?
-obviously the music business has changed, touring is $
-I'm old school, and only pay for new music-Fuck it I buy CDs to support my favorite artists
-CDs sound better too(@least for now)

Oh yah I feel old, but my sons(9 and 12) know classic to new ROCK, and love it!
-9 year old is named Gibson!

 

[shgshg]

(the way rig-talk handles quoted content is hard to read so I'm not going to attempt to directly reply to individuals)

Downloading copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder is not, and CAN not, ever be theft. Theft is a word with a legal definition and downloading copyrighted material without permission doesn't meet it. I mean, you can say "well I think it's theft" in the same way that an animal rights activist can say "I think wearing leather is murder" but that doesn't make it so. It's just not theft. You can't do anything about that, live with it.

I'm not saying it's not illegal, because copyright law in some countries means that if you download copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright owner you are committing a tort of "copyright infringement".

That too is stupid, and is a reflection of the fact that copyright laws were written when the printing press was still a pretty newfangled invention. The law is totally out of date and does not reflect the reality of how people interact with information in the 21st century.

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

If I want a beer I go buy it! I think its pretty simple! If u want something u pay for it or your stealing it?
Jesus...if u get gas and don't pay for it your arrested. If you need bread you buy it.....?
I could go on forever

 

[shgshg]

So you think leather is murder then?

 

[Mailman1971]

Whats Ned Flanders doing these days?

...Diddly ho...Homer......

 

[Ventura]

Is this thread about the Two Notes Torpedo Live?

 

[gtr31]

So you think leather is murder then?

No But this has absolutely 0 relevance to taking an artist product for free and distributing it to others for free.

 

[shgshg]

Which is the bit you disagree with - the downloading or the sharing?

 

[Shark Diver]

So you think leather is murder then?

Well I hope my NIKEs aren't still breathing...

 

[satannica]

On topic...

It doesn't really matter whether downloading is stealing or not... like it or not its here to stay until someone devises some other system to replace it.

It's not like I grew up thinking I was stealing when I taped songs off the radio and gave copies to my friends.

Some other system, which would be?

Let me help you out. There already is a new system. It's played right into the money men's hands and has served to devastate all those pesky underground scenes that wouldn't go away. Sure the old timers are left, but there's nobody new to replace them because it's beyond anyone's financial ability to do so. That is the new system, that is the new model. Modern music is an advertising vehicle designed for young money by people in their 50s and 60s! This is the new model.

Tape trading is a completely different world to digital downloading. For one, a cassette recorded off the radio was not a quality or permanent recording and chances are a listener would end up buying an official release anyway.

Today, you can download an entire back catalog in minutes. Something that took an artists several years, even decades to create and it's now permanently and undetectably steal-able and as disposal as female sanitary objects.

The result is simple. If you've already made your name (USING THE OLD LEGITIMATE MODEL), then all you need to do is tour for retirement credits. If you're a new band, you're fucked. Straight up!

 

[sixstringking713]

The main 3 things that have killed the industry as I see it:
*Concert tickets are outrageously priced, driving people to see fewer bands.
*Record labels are pushing pop stars into mainstream because they are a much easier business model to follow and generate easy revenue compared to investing in a whole band.
*The public buys into the mainstream radio propaganda and listens to the absolutely terrible acts with no talent. Big labels turn a profit, rinse and repeat the cycle...

There was an interesting youtube video where a kid hires some bodyguards and a fake paparazzi in NYC to see how many people are fooled into thinking he's a celebrity. I think it really speaks volumes about the american public in general of how they buy-into-the-propaganda, so to speak, of these terrible artists that are marketed to be "the next big thing that everyone needs to listen to"..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYU1a0lTTTw

Only way industry will turnover is if artists record/produce albums by themselves (because recording gear is much more affordable than it used to be) and exploit the internet to get your music out there. If there is enough of a demand, good artists/bands will come back out of the woodwork.

I am trying to write, record, mix, master, and distribute an album all by myself to try and get out there that way.

 

[satannica]

The main 3 things that have killed the industry as I see it:
*Concert tickets are outrageously priced, driving people to see fewer bands.
*Record labels are pushing pop stars into mainstream because they are a much easier business model to follow and generate easy revenue compared to investing in a whole band.
*The public buys into the mainstream radio propaganda and listens to the absolutely terrible acts with no talent. Big labels turn a profit, rinse and repeat the cycle...

There was an interesting youtube video where a kid hires some bodyguards and a fake paparazzi in NYC to see how many people are fooled into thinking he's a celebrity. I think it really speaks volumes about the american public in general of how they buy-into-the-propaganda, so to speak, of these terrible artists that are marketed to be "the next big thing that everyone needs to listen to"..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYU1a0lTTTw

Only way industry will turnover is if artists record/produce albums by themselves (because recording gear is much more affordable than it used to be) and exploit the internet to get your music out there. If there is enough of a demand, good artists/bands will come back out of the woodwork.

I am trying to write, record, mix, master, and distribute an album all by myself to try and get out there that way.

I don't disagree. But there is that one major link missing here. You produce your work, loads of people on the internet love it.

How are you going to get the revenue together to get gigs where your audience supposedly is, advertise them properly, get you, your bandmates and your gear over there, get merchandise to actually sell there, or possibly getting the better support slots... none of this is an insignificant outlay. The few tours I've done in Europe have taken near on 5 figures to get done. That was before we had money come back in which you just do not get until you've finished the tour.

It used to be a local act like yourself would get that money from selling demos, selling CDs etc locally and build up. While that still happens to a certain degree, it's when you get to the next level where you do need label help, where you do need the capital it provides as well as the contacts and legal assistance is where the whole thing falls flat if people are stealing your output almost completely!

It wasn't long ago when even in the pop charts, somebody got a platinum album with only 10,000 sales. I mean, shit, if that's the best anyone can do these days, there's major problems!

At the end of the day, I don't understand it. If you like it and support your scene, put your money where your mouth is and stop being an entitled asshole! £10 for a CD or iTunes download really is not all the money in the world and it enables your favorite artist to actually still exist!

 

[shgshg]

There already is a new system. It's played right into the money men's hands and has served to devastate all those pesky underground scenes that wouldn't go away. Sure the old timers are left, but there's nobody new to replace them because it's beyond anyone's financial ability to do so. That is the new system, that is the new model.

What you're talking about is the return of the OLD model. The 20th century was an aberration. The heydey of the music-publishing industry from, let's say, the ragtime era to Napster, will soon be acknowledged as a temporary blip in the history of entertainment, one that was only possible during a small window during which the technology was advanced enough for printing and recording and distribution to be mechanized but primitive enough that only some large rich groups of middle-men had the tools to do it.

What we're seeing now is a return to the normal state of the entertainment industry - the way it was for Homer, Shakespeare, Khayyam, Bach, Mozart, and almost every other author and composer you've ever heard of. That normal state is this: if you want to be a musician, you have three choices.

1. Do it in your own time while you're not doing whatever it is that puts food on the table.
2. Make music interesting enough and be talented enough that a wealthy patron will pay you to do it. This is the "MacArthur Fellowship" end of the scale.
3. Make music popular enough and be entertaining enough that lots of people will pay you small amounts of money to do it. This is the "play for your supper" end of the scale.

 

[Gorehog]

Music killed the music industry!
Have you hear the shit being released today.id barely call it art.definitely,imo doesnt deserve to be stolen much less paid for.

On a serious note...i spend way too much money on music.i have downloaded music to see if i like it.good example,i downloaded a bunch of dream theater years ago,to see if i could get into it.i cant take the vocals.so everything i downloaded i erased.
I just got into all the 7 and 8 string tech death kinda stuff.so i searched youtube to see what
I like,then i buy it off itunes.

And FTR i have been busted for DLing from limewire and had to pay a fine of $10 for 3 illegal DLs.the other 809 songs i guess were legal.however i dumped everything after getting busted.


Cars are for sale.i can test drive before i buy.
Amps,guitars are for sale,i can play thru before i buy.

Face it,music is a popularity contest.if you write music and the majority of people dont dig it,it doesnt mean its bad music.it just means your not gonna make a living off of it.deal with it.

Hence the reason for indigo and kickstarter campaigns.pretty much the whole industrial/ dance scene cant live off their music.so every band has a kickstarter to help them record/tour/ make videos. But if peeps are gonna donate to help a band,thats ok in my book.i havevdonated to the loomis/merrow project.the last velvet acid christ cd and a nolongerhuman campaign.also a psyclon nine campaign and a putrid pile indigo.

So to me,im justified.

Lets not forget the bloated rockstars,greedy managers and out of touch executives that may be responsible for the record labels imploding.

 

[Gorehog]

Platinum sales are 1 million records sold.no one ever went platinum selling 10,000 records.

Sales are based on how many records the record company sold to the stores.not how many copies the stores sold.so if a record ships platinum and the your local record store has 7 copies left of 10 they may have ordered,its the stores loss.not the record companies loss.

If your in a band,and your serious,everyone in the band can chip in to buy a good cpu and daw and record themselves.pay someone else to mix and put on itunes.its not that difficult.make your own breaks.thats the "new" business model.

 

[maddnotez]

I kind of want to see the rest of this video if there is one.

It ends with how would a new band expect to be out on tour and pay the bills?


Great question and I do agree with Gene on this 100%

I do not think he meant Rap is the new Rock because it obviously isn't. He was referring to the image and he was right.

Back in the day 80's bands had the image of being cool, getting chicks and making money, driving fancy cars and that shit sold.

Now days you do not see that in rock you see it in Rap.

 

[TrueTone500]

I do not think he meant Rap is the new Rock because it obviously isn't. He was referring to the image and he was right.

Back in the day 80's bands had the image of being cool, getting chicks and making money, driving fancy cars and that shit sold.

Now days you do not see that in rock you see it in Rap.

Amazing that you have to actually clarify Gene's analogy for some people...

 

[rupe]

Downloading copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder is not, and CAN not, ever be theft. Theft is a word with a legal definition and downloading copyrighted material without permission doesn't meet it. I mean, you can say "well I think it's theft" in the same way that an animal rights activist can say "I think wearing leather is murder" but that doesn't make it so. It's just not theft. You can't do anything about that, live with it.

I'm not saying it's not illegal, because copyright law in some countries means that if you download copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright owner you are committing a tort of "copyright infringement".

That too is stupid, and is a reflection of the fact that copyright laws were written when the printing press was still a pretty newfangled invention. The law is totally out of date and does not reflect the reality of how people interact with information in the 21st century.

The legal definition of Theft: Criminal act of dishonest assumption of the rights of the true owner of a tangible or intangible property by treating it as one's own, whether or not taking it away with the intent of depriving the true owner of it.

Sorry, but your statement simply doesn't pass the sniff test...you are stating your opinion as if it were fact. Beyond that, why get hung up on semantics when it should have been very clear to anyone with a modicum of comprehension skills what was being discussed?



And for those who are blaming technology instead of the fans...WOW!!! That's like blaming the gun instead of the shooter...which I guess is something that some misguided morons still try to do. How often does your computer download songs without you knowing about it?