Grill Coverings

[steve_k]

Anybody give much thought to grill cloth and sound projection? Now, I am not anal enough to chase down tone in a grill cloth. But, yesterday, I was dicking around in the cave, matching some head/cabs/speakers up and was sort of surprised (well, really surprised) at the difference in the tone/projection of the cabs, using the same head. If you consider the 70's Marshall, the Marshall Handwired, the Bogner and Wizard cabs to essentially be of the same design (and they are), with essentially the same family of speakers (they are all GB's or Scum equivalents with the same wattage), you would be amazed at the difference in projection and tone. It is a hell of a lot more audible than I would have thought. The Wizard and Bogner have a fairly loose black basket weave cloth and are pretty much identical. The 70's Marshall has that old Salt n Pepper loose weave. The Handwired has the tight S&P basket weave. There's also the Mesa, which is the odd cab of the lot, being oversized and loaded with Celestion 65's and should be a little louder. It has a very different grill covering than the rest (not sure what they call it).

The iPhone clips weren't really that clear and I didn't fool with uploading them, but standing in the room, it was very clear. If was really a swell guy, I would mic these up and make some proper clips to show the difference.

However, hands down, the Marshall Handwired with the Celestion Heritage 30's was the most pleasing to me. That tight grill cloth helps to keep the audio projection somewhat controlled or choked back and not dispersed into infinity like the rest of them. It develops a lot of thump and bottom and leaves the top end smooth, not too harsh. That's just my opinion though and what I am after - and not really the point of the discussion. Maybe though, for the similar cab designs (based on the Marshall 68/69 cabs), with the same general family of speakers/output, tonal satisfaction has more to do with grill covering than one would think, rather than the actual speaker or cab.

I don't know fuck all though. Food for thought....go eat.

 

[Giga]

I'm considering "regrilling" my Marshall cab for this very reason. Thanks !

Giga

 

[supersonic]

Often overlooked subject, and a big topic on TGP I'd guess.

 

[steve_k]

Often overlooked subject, and a big topic on TGP I'd guess.

TGP....yes, it probably is a major one over there.

At the end of the day, mic'd up to the FOH, it won't make 2 shits difference as it will be EQ's anyway. In a studio setting or you sitting in front of the cab playing, yeah, it makes a difference.

 

[Riffraff]

I would suspect the grill cloth has little to nothing to do with the difference in tone. It's the speakers or the cab. Same family is not the same speaker. Even the same speaker brand and model with differ in a side to side comparison due to age/break in. Cab material & construction plays a HUGE role in the tone (back panel included here because some are mdf and some are plywood) , ported vs non ported, slight depth variations,etc. EJ might be able to hear the difference in grill cloth but I seriously doubt anyone else could. One way to prove this out is if you have a cab with a removable grill. Test it with it on vs off and see if you can hear a difference.

 

[steve_k]

I would suspect the grill cloth has little to nothing to do with the difference in tone. It's the speakers or the cab. Same family is not the same speaker. Even the same speaker brand and model with differ in a side to side comparison due to age/break in. Cab material & construction plays a HUGE role in the tone (back panel included here because some are mdf and some are plywood) , ported vs non ported, slight depth variations,etc. EJ might be able to hear the difference in grill cloth but I seriously doubt anyone else could. One way to prove this out is if you have a cab with a removable grill. Test it with it on vs off and see if you can hear a difference.

Dude.....thanks, but

 

[supersonic]

Does the "Salt and Peppar" cloth add spice to the tone? Seriously though do the Heritage cabs have a solid timber back panel, as opposed to particle board? This may alter the tone.

 

[rupe]

Interesting...I've heard this discussed before but I've never put it to the test like I'm prone to do.

That said, I had a pro sound engineer try to convince me that speakers and cabs are the least important part of a live rig. Obviously I found that to be absurd but he continued on, saying that as long as the base tone was decent, the most significant tone-shaping variable was the type of mic and its placement. He claimed that the minute differences between speakers and cabs can be completely mitigated through mic'ing and board eq.

 

[stoneage cabs]

I wouldn't dismiss the tonal differences in grill cloth styles, as some have suggested. The thickest cloth currently available (that I am aware of) is ORIGINAL Marshall salt-n-pepper. Marshall had this developed for them in part, to help tame the high end of the new at the time G12H30 (late 60's).

Other cloth steve has displayed like the black weave, is very thin in comparison to snp. That black is like having nothing in front of your speakers...from an acoustical standpoint. Believe it...the thicker cloths do help tame (most noticeably the highs) all frequencies.

 

[threadkiller]

I have noticed a big difference with grill cloth. I but a tight basketweave cloth on a couple of 212's I had with v30's. It did exactly what you described, tightened the bottom and smoothed out the highs. The biggest thing is an effect on the directionality of the cab. Before with the very thin grill cloth, there was I big difference in sound standing directly in front vs slightly off axis vs 45 deg etc. The thicker cloth seemed to make it about the same in every direction. I did it for looks, but I'm convinced it made a pretty big impact on tone as well.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Pros have been tweaking tone for years with grill cloth. it makes a difference.

I just had this conversation with Jim root of slipknot who won't play a cabinet without the orange type cloth on it.

 

[stoneage cabs]

Interesting...I've heard this discussed before but I've never put it to the test like I'm prone to do.

That said, I had a pro sound engineer try to convince me that speakers and cabs are the least important part of a live rig. Obviously I found that to be absurd but he continued on, saying that as long as the base tone was decent, the most significant tone-shaping variable was the type of mic and its placement. He claimed that the minute differences between speakers and cabs can be completely mitigated through mic'ing and board eq.

Obviously he isn't a guitar player. If he is, he has poor ears, and perhaps should switch to drums.

 

[RSRD]

I was dicking around in the cave

If you were dicking around in a cave how were you able to focus on grill cloths? is this a way to last longer?

 

[Giga]

Interesting...I've heard this discussed before but I've never put it to the test like I'm prone to do.

That said, I had a pro sound engineer try to convince me that speakers and cabs are the least important part of a live rig. Obviously I found that to be absurd but he continued on, saying that as long as the base tone was decent, the most significant tone-shaping variable was the type of mic and its placement. He claimed that the minute differences between speakers and cabs can be completely mitigated through mic'ing and board eq.

Probably true from his perspective but all that has very little to do with the sound the gitarist himself will hear and experience on stage.

Giga

 

[MOAAH]

Just a thought...
What about inside the cab? I’ve always had a distaste for muddy bass, as in not firm and full, but boomy. Loading a cab with fiberglass(or another absorbent material, whatever they may use today) can change the tonal qualities in a big way. Bracing could remove some unwanted resonant frequencies, as will thicker wood on the front baffle. For sure the tonal transparency of grill cloth will effect your tone, but I’m curious if there is some other difference, stuff you can’t see from the outside of the cab.

 

[steve_k]

I wouldn't dismiss the tonal differences in grill cloth styles, as some have suggested. The thickest cloth currently available (that I am aware of) is ORIGINAL Marshall salt-n-pepper. Marshall had this developed for them in part, to help tame the high end of the new at the time G12H30 (late 60's).

Other cloth steve has displayed like the black weave, is very thin in comparison to snp. That black is like having nothing in front of your speakers...from an acoustical standpoint. Believe it...the thicker cloths do help tame (most noticeably the highs) all frequencies.

Thanks for jumping in John. What you are describing is exactly what I was going to allude to. I had never really paid it too much attention to grill covering, but have rolled a lot of speakers in the last few years. The Marshall HW stands out though, and I guess it is the only cab I have with that original type cloth grill. Other cabs I have with the same speakers and same general design do not sound as tight.

Steve

 

[D-Rock]

One I would like to test next to my Mesa is the wicker style on the Orange stuff. I have metal grilles too, they sound immediate and forceful. Not sure how I feel about them...I get by with them I guess. Maybe I'll attach some clothe to the under side of the my Kranks metal grille to test the affect.

 

[Anonymous]

100 thread count sheets...1200 thread count sheets.....there is a difference

 

[steve_k]

100 thread count sheets...1200 thread count sheets.....there is a difference

Same applies to toilet paper ply too Kurt