Guitar Trends or Trending Guitars?

[steve_k]

Just throwing this out for discussion

Guitar designs, outside of the mainstream big brands, seem to be getting a lot of focus and interest. European made, mostly custom shops in Europe, although a couple in the US. The Blackmachines seemed to have started the trend with the super thin bodies, bolt on necks, fixed tail, strange headstock, fast neck, BKP loaded, guitar designs. The 7's are commonplace, 8's and now 9's and other extended ranges have a lot of popularity, and there are a few making the fanned fret necks.

Black Machine
Black Water
Black Cat
Mayones
Skervesen

Definitely a lot of copy-catting going on. However, there are some variations showing up with body styles. Lot's of rare wood showing up too, whether tone driven or just eye-candy. Some offer neck thru construction, but most are just bolt-ons.

Any appeal, fad, necessity for the genre? Some are pretty cool but I am wondering if the market won't be flooding with them pretty quick. Some seem to be difficult to resell as I look around some of the classifieds.

 

[stratjacket]

Good topic. I have a Skervesen 4AP prototype as well as another Skervesen and BlacKat build due soon. All 7-strings. For me, I've played for a long time and really wanted something unique and different from what I'd been playing (Ibby, Jackson, etc...). I got into 7's about 9 months ago and found these companies off the Sevenstring site, love em. Between these guitars (I also had a Mayones) and newly found 7-strings, my whole outlook changed, I felt like a teenager again discovering shit.

I think it's not a fad, I think they are here to stay as long as they keep making great, well built guitars. I don't think it's really any different than it used to be, but we just have more access to them than we did 10-15 years ago through boards, Facebook, etc, so those small shops can sell more and have a viable business. I think eventually we'll see some of the bigger companies start copying some of these unique styles and maybe buy some upstarts, but I don't think these small shops put any dent in Ibanez or Fenders bottom line any time soon.

 

[steve_k]

Good topic. I have a Skervesen 4AP prototype as well as another Skervesen and BlacKat build due soon. All 7-strings. For me, I've played for a long time and really wanted something unique and different from what I'd been playing (Ibby, Jackson, etc...). I got into 7's about 9 months ago and found these companies off the Sevenstring site, love em. Between these guitars (I also had a Mayones) and newly found 7-strings, my whole outlook changed, I felt like a teenager again discovering shit.

I think it's not a fad, I think they are here to stay as long as they keep making great, well built guitars. I don't think it's really any different than it used to be, but we just have more access to them than we did 10-15 years ago through boards, Facebook, etc, so those small shops can sell more and have a viable business. I think eventually we'll see some of the bigger companies start copying some of these unique styles and maybe buy some upstarts, but I don't think these small shops put any dent in Ibanez or Fenders bottom line any time soon.

I ventured off into them as well. How do you find Skervesen vs. Mayones? I have a 4AP7 with the acoustic option on order too from Skervy, as well as a Raptor 7 with 25/26 fanned frets. The ordering and customer service from Skervesen is great. We'll see in about 6 more weeks how the guitars are! The Mayones Regius line I like. Don't care much for the bolt-on Setius though, in comparison. My 7MM is pretty damn nice to play. Even coming from Europe, I don't feel like I've been gang-raped on price either. They are pretty reasonable.

 

[spirit7]

Good thread. I think if you're after something unique, it's a great option, but you have to be aware that resale value is likely to be poor. That's also partly because custom builds are quite personal to the player (or at least they should be).

I've never got on with any Mayones I've played but they are very well built. The Blackmachine B2 I played, though...wow. I would kill for one of those.

-C

 

[Valtyr]

I like the weird stuff ( my main is a Parker Fly ). I'd like to try one of those multi scale fanned fret 7 string designs someday.

I have no interest in 8 or 9 strings, just isn't used in any of the music I'm interested in....at least not yet.

 

[Heritage Softail]

All kinds of new multi stringed things I have not played.

There are still some that have not discovered a Tele.

Options a great.

 

[rlord1974]

Unique thread, Steve.

I haven't yet ventured into guitars with > 6 strings, so don't have much to add here. My only thought is, why settle for only 9 strings?.....

 

[rupe]

Good topic...I was thinking the exact same thing recently. I think it's likely the "Guitar Porn" page on Facebook that made me come to the realization...I noticed all these guitars that seemed to be taking the Blackmachine formula and running with it. Some look like near direct knock-offs, while others are nicely putting their own spin on a new style of sorts.

That said, I think it's most likely a very small niche market that they serve. I have yet to see one of these guitars on a big stage (or any stage), in a video, in a magazine, at a show, etc. I think anybody outside of the most obsessed modern guitar geeks probably has no clue who any of these builders are. When/if that begins to change is when you'll see the "cycle" begin...as the new adopters jump on the bandwagon, the majority of the "pioneers" will move on to the next thing, whatever that may be. The exception will be those who truly found their "home" on one of these styles and value function over form.

I've tried to get on the Blackmachine list for over 3 years now to no avail...no correspondence was ever answered. That being the case, and knowing that he still builds a limited number of guitars each year, I've lost interest. As a marketing guy, I have no time for somebody who can't provide at least a short answer to a potential customer's inquiry. Then when I see some dude on TGP is getting two this year, it chaps my ass even more Apparently you need to be in some exclusive club to get on the list...f#ck that.

I'd be curious to hear people's experiences with any of these companies...I'm still interested in the style and may place an order if I find the right builder.

 

[NinjaRaf]

My opinion is largely that they are over priced super strats. You can get the same thing for half the cost done by a small time builder in the US (referring largely to the european builders). I mean, 4k for a custom super strat seems really kinda crazy to me. Sure, they have some nice options and nice features, but you can get something comparable from Carvin for under 2k. Or even a company like Mammoth...who can make you something 100% full custom to your specs, for under 2k. Clearly, theres a market for those high dollar guitars because they are selling, but I could never bring myself to drop 4k on a guitar.

 

[steve_k]

Good thread. I think if you're after something unique, it's a great option, but you have to be aware that resale value is likely to be poor. That's also partly because custom builds are quite personal to the player (or at least they should be).

I've never got on with any Mayones I've played but they are very well built. The Blackmachine B2 I played, though...wow. I would kill for one of those.

-C

One thing you don't see is a Blackmachine come up for sale. Seems to be the 59 Les Paul of the 21st century.

 

[IndyWS6]

Unique thread, Steve.

I haven't yet ventured into guitars with > 6 strings, so don't have much to add here. My only thought is, why settle for only 9 strings?.....

Alex Lifeson's grandfather playing "The Trees" ?

 

[cardinal]

Blackmachine guitars are interesting. I've never seen one in person, much less played one. But here are my random musings. Very cool design, seems original. Apparently they play and sound great. The clone/rip offs turn me off. Obviously most things in this biz are derivative, but naked copying isn't very cool to me.

Their price is very very high, but I'd be weary to spend that much because to me the cost is unproven. Maybe it's shallow or unfair on my part, but without a legitimate rockstar connection, the price looks to be driven by nothing but hyperbole and hype on Internet message boards, and that can be very fickle. The bottom could fall out tomorrow when some influential forum member(s) starts pumping the next new darling and people move on.

Seems like if Doug were actually interested in building a brand rather than hype, he'd actually build guitars for people that want to buy them.

 

[thegame]

These types of guitars are nothing new. I have plenty of Guitar Player year end buyers guide issues from 20 + years ago, and these extended range, extra string, exotic wood pancake body guitars were popular mainly with "easy listening" avant guard jazz fusion geeks. Nowadays, you easily hear more about them via the interwebs and the target demographic has shifted to the Djent music scene almost exclusively, many of whom are wanna be avant guard jazz fusion geeks that simply add some open string chugging and stock dissonant chordal stabs to their bad Holdsworth impersonations.

Tosin from Animals as Leaders is one of the very very few talented enough that manage to do something worthwhile in the genre IMO.

 

[stratjacket]

I ventured off into them as well. How do you find Skervesen vs. Mayones? I have a 4AP7 with the acoustic option on order too from Skervy, as well as a Raptor 7 with 25/26 fanned frets. The ordering and customer service from Skervesen is great. We'll see in about 6 more weeks how the guitars are! The Mayones Regius line I like. Don't care much for the bolt-on Setius though, in comparison. My 7MM is pretty damn nice to play. Even coming from Europe, I don't feel like I've been gang-raped on price either. They are pretty reasonable.

Cool, sounds like we have similar tastes. I have a Raptor 7 on order that should be done within a couple of weeks. The Skervesen I have is the prototype for the 4AP, it's the spalted top one that is their Facebook avatar (profile pic or whatever it's called). It has the acoustic option and is chambered, really diverse guitar. So when I bought it, there were some documented flaws, but nothing major. Price also reflected that. Anyway, as far as Mayones (it was a regius i had) vs Skervesen build quality and such is on par with each other. I couldn't say one was built any better. Can't miss with either. From what I have read, several of the Skervesen guys worked at Mayones for years, so that probably helps.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Any appeal, fad, necessity for the genre? Some are pretty cool but I am wondering if the market won't be flooding with them pretty quick. Some seem to be difficult to resell as I look around some of the classifieds.

I think the appeal comes from them just being different, as far as weight, headstock shapes and whatnot....how many LPs and Strats have we had collectively, just as part of the group that posts regularly here a few times a week? Thousands? More? I've had over 50 guitars since I started playing at age 12; mostly LPs and strat shapes. I know that there are a lot of guys here that have that many now, and as much as 5-10 times that have gone thru their stables....I have no idea how many guitars I've seen you sell/buy Steve, since I joined this board a few years back.

I dug the Blackmachines from the first time I saw one.....was different but functional, and to me that equals cool.

I'm interested in the Skervs as well...or any of them, really. If I could get ahold of one that was as thin/light as a Blackmachine but because of wood choices sounded as thick and beefy as a LP and on the other hand was as navigable as an RGA121, there'd be no contest. I'd pick it up in a heartbeat, as it'd actually fill a void. I think as far as the clones go, the Raptors are sick as hell, and I'm interested to see what you think.

All my knowledge about these guitars comes from SS.org, and besides Qweklain and Khoi, I wasn't aware of anyone on RT that actually owned one so I'm hyped for your opinion.

As far as it being a trend, I don't see it going anywhere......the turnover rate doesn't seem to be that high, really...and the SS.org trading board is at least as busy as this one if not more.

 

[steve_k]

I ventured off into them as well. How do you find Skervesen vs. Mayones? I have a 4AP7 with the acoustic option on order too from Skervy, as well as a Raptor 7 with 25/26 fanned frets. The ordering and customer service from Skervesen is great. We'll see in about 6 more weeks how the guitars are! The Mayones Regius line I like. Don't care much for the bolt-on Setius though, in comparison. My 7MM is pretty damn nice to play. Even coming from Europe, I don't feel like I've been gang-raped on price either. They are pretty reasonable.

Cool, sounds like we have similar tastes. I have a Raptor 7 on order that should be done within a couple of weeks. The Skervesen I have is the prototype for the 4AP, it's the spalted top one that is their Facebook avatar (profile pic or whatever it's called). It has the acoustic option and is chambered, really diverse guitar. So when I bought it, there were some documented flaws, but nothing major. Price also reflected that. Anyway, as far as Mayones (it was a regius i had) vs Skervesen build quality and such is on par with each other. I couldn't say one was built any better. Can't miss with either. From what I have read, several of the Skervesen guys worked at Mayones for years, so that probably helps.

If the Skervy's are good, then most likely the Mayo's will flip. Probably not on RT though, as the users just aren't here. If it isn't mainstream brand, they are hard to move on RT. I don't see any Skervesen's around for sale anywhere, which is a good indicator. They have much better wood selection and as far as a custom build, 10-12 weeks, and those guys are super easy to work with.

 

[stratjacket]

Good points. During the last month, I've seen ~4 Skervy's up for sale on SevenString and they all sold pretty quick. They are a small company but growing a lot. I wish them the best, love working with them and I really hope they can maintain as demands grows. It's cool to see hard working good guys get some love, not just Skervesen, but all the companies you have listed above. BlackWater looks awesome and made right in Texas

As to some comments about high prices, I would do a little research, I think you'd be surprised. My Skervesen's were less than a EBMM JP and a lot of new Ibby's. Way less than PRS and brands like that. BlacKat Ferals start off at 1300EU listed on their FB page. These are not outrageous prices at all for what you're getting. Of course still a good chunk of change, but when I ordered a BlacKat Feral with a few upgrade options, it was still less than a Prestige Ibby, any USA Jackson and most other higher end "commonly known" brand guitars.

Another reason I got into them was because for years I looked for a guitar with these specs and could not find one:
- 6-string, ebony or maple fretboard, fixed bridge, Volume knob NOT right next to bridge pickup (ruled out Jackson and ESP), 2 Humbuckers, flat top (no arch)
Seems simple, but that did not exist with Ibanez, Jackson, ESP, etc... but it's pretty standard on most of the models these small shops make.

 

[snowdog]

R & D in this day and age (for the most part) stands for review and duplicate.

 

[steve_k]

R & D in this day and age (for the most part) stands for review and duplicate.

Very true. Innovation is a rare commodity anymore.

 

[Splinterhead]

I'm a big fan of the Strandberg* design. I think Ola is quite an innovator as far as creating an ergonomic, high quality guitar that's easy to play and easy on the back. The Endurneck has me intrigued.