Hating on digital gear: How close does the Axe FXIII (as one such device) sound compared to one of the amps it models (Marshall JVM410)

nightlight

nightlight

Well-known member
This is a comparison of the Axe FXIII OD1 orange and OD2 models versus the actual Marshall JVM410H amp in those same channels. I think it comes pretty close, and might even be indistinguishable in a blind test.

Marshall makes great gear, and I hope this video will convince you that Fractal Audio does too. Do note that the channel settings for both the Axe FXIII and the JVM were set to noon.

Of course, this is only for the fan favourite OD1 channel. I find for the less preferred OD2 channel (which I am loving on the newer JVMs, having owned an older model), the actual amp kicks ass, and I hope Fractal can take note of this.

I, for one, have no doubt that both pieces of gear can be dialled in to have some pretty awesome tones.


What do you think?
 
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I was thinking something close to this yesterday. Had band camp and getting ready for a corporate event. No prob; I’ll use my axe fx to prepare. I understand they are good enough when the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to haul real deal amps around for a bunch of people who are super hammered and not paying attention anyway.. after practice I knew I was missing something sonically but the entire band helps cover up my missing piece- I think. When I solo, there is something missing when using the Axe vs the tube amp. I know it, others might not. During verses and chorus I can’t tell as much. Point is I can hear a difference but I know what it should really sound like so I’m jaded. I think I’ll bring my tube amp. Just my thoughts.
 
I like my Friedman amps, I like my axe-fx. Do they sound exactly the same? My ears say close enough, is it exact? I don't know and I don't care, to the point, they both sound great... Now I've built my axe rig to essentially mirror my pedal and tube rig. I do find the eq on my axe is set very different than on the real amp but the end result is so close that I rarely play tubes anymore. I have the tubes for the "collection", but I use the axe....
 
I owned an Axe-Fx II and have owned tons of amps. It is hard to explain but there is a feel or "bounce" that you can't get from the Axe-Fx II or any modeler I've heard. I don't know what it is but seems to be high gain is the hardest to reproduce.

I heard Brit Floyd live with Fractal and was amazing and spot on.
 
Shask said:
I find the difference is more on feel than sound.
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I think I might disagree... At least now I disagree. I thought the same thing until I got a proper 2x12 stereo frfr. Through monitors, headphones and even pa speakers it "felt" different. Though an effects return of a tube amp and a cab it didn't sound the same but feel was a bit more realistic. Through my frfr, perhaps there is a difference but if there is I can't "feel" it anymore, nor do I hear anything other than what I want/expect from my tube rig.
 
GOHOINC said:
I think I might disagree... At least now I disagree. I thought the same thing until I got a proper 2x12 stereo frfr. Through monitors, headphones and even pa speakers it "felt" different. Though an effects return of a tube amp and a cab it didn't sound the same but feel was a bit more realistic. Through my frfr, perhaps there is a difference but if there is I can't "feel" it anymore, nor do I hear anything other than what I want/expect from my tube rig.
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I think it depends on how you play it, what you play, and if you switch back and forth.

Lately I have been using my Synergy rig, which is very tight and snappy feeling, and even running it through my Fractal gear, it kind of makes it feel sluggish and blurs the bass together on the on low end. I play high gain chuggy stuff, and I think it is most noticeable with this. It definitely changes the feel just going through the unit with nothing on.

Do I notice this when only using the Fractal? I dunno. I can tell it feels different, but it still sounds good. Its not as noticeable if you aren't sitting there switching back and forth neurotically. I do notice it enough though that I dont run my tube stuff straight through it without a mixer. I do think the ADA conversion does change the dynamics though, but it is something that is not as noticeable if you aren't running it with analog gear.
 
I focused on using digital modelers for years. What I don't like about them is the modeling part; trying to sound like a real tube amp (when even real tube amps of the same make and model may not sound the same), same for IRs. Modeler makers were out on a "who has more / better amp models" and cabs, and speakers, and IRs...

After awhile, it became too many choices and combinations that I wasted a lot of time trying and comparing way too many options. About that time Boss started to add "idealized" amps of a certain sound: Natural, Boutique, Supreme, X-Crunch, etc. and it made sense to me.

Then I came across Blue Cat Audio Destructor plugin, that provided tools to shape and sculpt your sound in a simple, intuitive way; I was able to focus on what I was hearing vs does it sound like a JCM800.

Destructor, Axiom, PolyChromeDSP, and a few other plugins I characterize as "digital signal processing" not digital modelers. Digital signal processing lets you focus on the sound and feel, not how close it gets to a specific real amp, cab, speaker, mic...

I sold all my modelers, started buying 50W and 100W tube amps, and built a computer rig for guitar around "digital signal processing" plugins for guitar.
 
I'm a recovering Tubeoholic...I actually just got rid of my Fireball 100...I am now only using the AX8 or FM9..

As has been noted..it's close enough to not worry about it. I solved the feel issue by using it with my last grasp of the tube world...Marshall 9005 power amp.
Cranking the FM9 through that into a 4x 12 with Manowars and Texas Heats...I don't even turn the cab modeling off...sounds f-in killer. Ultimately since it is my sound...I can use whatever gear suits to the task..if you can't get a good sound with Fractal..Helix..Kemper..etc...you're not trying.
 
I love the sound of tube amps, solid state and even modelers bit they all have their advantages and disadvantages, etc.

Modelers often have an "ideal" tone and I think it blurs the real sound of an amp. The only way I can describe it, is like hearing a raw Zeppelin or AC/DC song and a polished Five Finger Death Punch song. It is too clean and too smooth.
 
I think what everyone is talking about when they say "feel" is actually the immediacy of the response you get from a tube amp versus an Axe FX.

On a tube amp, there is virtually no latency whatsoever, whereas with the Axe FXIII, it is more to the order of 2-4ms. Add FX, add more cabinets, and the latency increases.

That's why tube amps are such a pleasure to play. It's a connection between your fingers and the sound, a tactile feel as it were.

That said, this comparison was all about the sound. I set everything to noon and used a DI/reamp to feed both devices. I thought the Axe FXIII and the JVM were pretty close when it came to the OD1 channel on orange mode, but I vastly preferred the Marshall when it came to OD2.

Possible this is because this is one of the newer Marshalls and not the older ones which they modelled. I noticed a huge difference between my older JMV and this newer one when it came to OD2.
 
That's a decent video.But are we talking ax fx into your computer and daw speakers on your desk ? They may " sound" close,definitely not in feel,especially when u start rollin your vol knob down on that guitar, those ol 1s and zeros have a bit of trouble keeping up with meticulous ptp circuitry in a say a real BE 100 deluxe or mkiic+...But no arguments here, some will indeed say close enough is close enough.Thats cool....now,...let's leave our nice living room daw quarters and head on over to the big stage.big stage as in 2500- 30k seaters is what I'm talking.
This is where " most " times me and my bandmates ( who regularly open for the big namers when they roll into town), can definitely hear the difference. Sure,the ax has a decent tone,but we are always hearing 1 tone ...all night..no variations.if theres dynamics going on,its not translating to f.o.h...the artist is changing all thier presets and out front it still sounds like that same 1 tone.? Idk..ymmv,no worries...Not very long ago my band recently did a 5k seater opening for a huge country rock band.Their bass player had a modeler, no stage amp at all.Our bass player ran his big tube ampeg head and a 8x10 cab..Blew the headliners tone right out of the water...I clearly remember sitting in the auditorium at 330pm watching thier soundcheck then later walking thru the arena at capacity at 9pm and the bass tone was farting out.It wasn't full,warm, punchy and nice at all.
Thier guitar player used a helix that night.no live amps on stage.Ok,not bad tone,but once again- same 1 tone/gain setting all night no matter how many times he hit his presets. I used a bogner xtc thru 2-4x12s.You can already guess how this turns out.I clearly remember the him saying to me after soundcheck " dang,dude,loved your sound! He then said".I used to use a real mic'd amp..I went this way now for "convenience ". **( there, is imop the kicker)**Youre making me think I'm gonna go back to amps again"
I simply dnt have a need or use for any modeler,save for maybe writing in the daw at times.To clarify tho,my response to o.p.is definitely not a " hate" on digital modelers.if ya like em,have at it.
Where I'm at in life with my gear,( and owning most of what the modelers are modeling,) plus witnessing it all live, i simply have no use for digital...its all good.ymmv
 
Little B said:
That's a decent video.But are we talking ax fx into your computer and daw speakers on your desk ? They may " sound" close,definitely not in feel,especially when u start rollin your vol knob down on that guitar, those ol 1s and zeros have a bit of trouble keeping up with meticulous ptp circuitry in a say a real BE 100 deluxe or mkiic+...But no arguments here, some will indeed say close enough is close enough.Thats cool....now,...let's leave our nice living room daw quarters and head on over to the big stage.big stage as in 2500- 30k seaters is what I'm talking.
This is where " most " times me and my bandmates ( who regularly open for the big namers when they roll into town), can definitely hear the difference. Sure,the ax has a decent tone,but we are always hearing 1 tone ...all night..no variations.if theres dynamics going on,its not translating to f.o.h...the artist is changing all thier presets and out front it still sounds like that same 1 tone.? Idk..ymmv,no worries...Not very long ago my band recently did a 5k seater opening for a huge country rock band.Their bass player had a modeler, no stage amp at all.Our bass player ran his big tube ampeg head and a 8x10 cab..Blew the headliners tone right out of the water...I clearly remember sitting in the auditorium at 330pm watching thier soundcheck then later walking thru the arena at capacity at 9pm and the bass tone was farting out.It wasn't full,warm, punchy and nice at all.
Thier guitar player used a helix that night.no live amps on stage.Ok,not bad tone,but once again- same 1 tone/gain setting all night no matter how many times he hit his presets. I used a bogner xtc thru 2-4x12s.You can already guess how this turns out.I clearly remember the him saying to me after soundcheck " dang,dude,loved your sound! He then said".I used to use a real mic'd amp..I went this way now for "convenience ". **( there, is imop the kicker)**Youre making me think I'm gonna go back to amps again"
I simply dnt have a need or use for any modeler,save for maybe writing in the daw at times.To clarify tho,my response to o.p.is definitely not a " hate" on digital modelers.if ya like em,have at it.
Where I'm at in life with my gear,( and owning most of what the modelers are modeling,) plus witnessing it all live, i simply have no use for digital...its all good.ymmv
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Yeah, man. That's cool. I have the same thoughts in that I think having real amps is 95% of the time better than having a modeller.

The real kicker is when you have a gig to play that is not in your side of the woods and involves transporting the amp, the cabinets, your FX and other gear to the venue.

In that regard, it's a blessing to have a modeller that can cop 90% of the tone I am getting with the amps. Other than musicians, most of the audience won't realise it or even care.

On your anecdote about the big act that was using modellers, it's entirely possible that the sound guy didn't know what he was doing, or the FOH system was not FRFR. What sounds good in one venue may not sound good in another, and all of us musicians have to live with that fact.

Give me a choice, and I'd lug my head and cabinet for a gig. But since I don't own a car and don't have roadies to move my gear, it is much simpler for me to tote around a modeller, a guitar and a floorboard and be done with it.
 
For me personally, I've never cared about modeling accuracy, I just see my Fractal as another tool that makes great tones. As long as I can dial in tones that sound convincing in a mix, I don't really care if it sounds or feels exactly like some specific brand/amp, etc. I know that view is odd for some because the whole idea is the claim they sound "just like xxxx" but eh, most of us end up dialing in tube amps to create our own sound anyway, the AXE FX III is no different in that regard for me, at least for tracking at low volumes - it's a pretty badass unit for that once you get comfy with it and more importantly, limit your focus to a handful of models/tones you like so you don't get distracted!

edit: oh, and yeah, the JVM orange model sounds great, but especially with cab number 757 (I have a small ref list of fav IR's that work well with specific amps lol)
 
Yes, modeling sounds close. It’s 2024, this has been beaten to death and people still say the same shit they did a decade ago, or cook up obvious bullshit anecdotal stories.

Either you enjoy the workflow/convenience, or you don’t. Sound is not even a viable discussion point anymore, because trust me, your tube amp also sounds and feels like a pile of shit when you only hear it through house.
 
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